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Poulaines from Poland

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  • quokkaqueen
    Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of Poulaines in Poland before they reached western Europe? Is there any evidence for the poulaine-style of shoe
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 16, 2007
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      Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of Poulaines in Poland
      before they reached western Europe? Is there any evidence for the
      poulaine-style of shoe from that at all?

      I couldn't find anything about it in the archives.

      Also, is there much evidence for pattens/trippe/clogs/over-sandals in
      Eastern Europe? There is a bast sandal from 10th century Latvia which
      might be a sort of overshoe, or something more akin to a Russian
      peasants' lapti, but I don't know of anything else.

      Would anyone more knowledgeable about footwear be able to help?
      ~Asfridhr
    • panimagdalena56
      Pattens in Poland, yes. If someone doesn t beat me to it I will post pictures when I get home from work. Poulaines - not the exaggerated ones seen in Western
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 17, 2007
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        Pattens in Poland, yes. If someone doesn't beat me to it I will post
        pictures when I get home from work.

        Poulaines - not the exaggerated ones seen in Western Europe but there
        is doucmentation of pointy toed shoes (worn with the pattens!)

        Magdalena

        PS Paul, If I can be of any help, let me know.
      • quokkaqueen
        I ve found an article with photos of cow-mouth shoes and two styles of patten, and I m assuming that they re from Gdansk, but I can t read anything else about
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 23, 2007
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          I've found an article with photos of cow-mouth shoes and two styles of
          patten, and I'm assuming that they're from Gdansk, but I can't read
          anything else about the article. Could someone with better Polish help?
          I'm especially interested in the section about pattens.

          http://jaxa.blox.pl/html/1310721,262146,21.html?0

          Hope someone can help!
          ~Asfridhr

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
          <snip>
          > Also, is there much evidence for pattens/trippe/clogs/over-sandals in
          > Eastern Europe?
          <snip>
          > ~Asfridhr
          >
        • panimagdalena56
          Great articles. I will try to get to the article after work. But you know how that goes. I did post some pictures of pattens and shoes but no duckbills.
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 24, 2007
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            Great articles. I will try to get to the article after work. But you
            know how that goes. I did post some pictures of pattens and shoes but
            no duckbills. Duckbills are usually seen worn by magistrates and
            members of the court who are more likely to follow foreign fashion
            than the "patiriotic" Poles of the times.

            MG
          • quokkaqueen
            Sorry for the delay in replying, thanks for the pictures Magdalena. :) ~Asfridhr
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 2, 2007
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              Sorry for the delay in replying, thanks for the pictures Magdalena. :)
              ~Asfridhr

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "panimagdalena56" <nunother56@...> wrote:
              >
              > Great articles. I will try to get to the article after work. But you
              > know how that goes. I did post some pictures of pattens and shoes but
              > no duckbills. Duckbills are usually seen worn by magistrates and
              > members of the court who are more likely to follow foreign fashion
              > than the "patiriotic" Poles of the times.
              >
              > MG
              >
            • Katherine Barich
              ... Hi again Asfridhr, I just have run across an article that might shed some light on your question about poulaines/crackowes. Cracows, Poulaines and Polony
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 12, 2008
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                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                >
                > Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of Poulaines in Poland
                > before they reached western Europe? Is there any evidence for the
                > poulaine-style of shoe from that at all?
                >
                > I couldn't find anything about it in the archives.
                >
                > Also, is there much evidence for pattens/trippe/clogs/over-sandals in
                > Eastern Europe? There is a bast sandal from 10th century Latvia which
                > might be a sort of overshoe, or something more akin to a Russian
                > peasants' lapti, but I don't know of anything else.
                >
                > Would anyone more knowledgeable about footwear be able to help?
                > ~Asfridhr

                Hi again Asfridhr,

                I just have run across an article that might shed some light on your
                question about poulaines/crackowes.

                "Cracows, Poulaines and Polony Fashion" by June Swann, in "Crossroads
                of Costume and Textiles in Poland, Papers from the International
                Conference of the ICOM Costume Committee at the National Museum in
                Cracow, September 28 - October 4, 2003", Edited by Beata Biedronska-
                Slotowa. National Museum in Cracow, publisher, 2005.

                Apparently June Swann has been studying the cracow/poulaine question
                for over 50(!) years, and making her first visit to Poland in 2000
                asked further questions. She says: "Though the crackow/poulaine style
                actually starts ca. 1340 in Poland, and so after 1350 in England, the
                first written references I have found to the words are ca. 1362
                ('turned-up toes a finger long, called crackows'). She concludes that
                the word crackow/poulaine actually only referred to the long toe
                portion, but I don't think she really has the answer to why the shoes
                were so named in the West.

                She also provides a listing of period citations that quoted the words
                poulaine, crackowe, polony heel and Polish boots (and those metal
                horseshoe heels). These citations list the sources but are a bit
                frustratingly incomplete. For example, you might like to find the
                cited article "Pattens from Pyrzyce and Medieval Shoe Fashion" by M.
                Gutkowska-Rychlewska but she doesn't list the publication in which the
                article appears.

                Three other small notes - Gutkowska-Rychlewska is quoted: "poulaine
                has a second meaning of ship prow". Dr. Beata Slotowa, Krackow
                Costume Curator is quoted regarding poulaines: "Fourteenth-fifteenth
                century shoes in Poland were in west European styles; some of them
                bought there. The fashion did not originate in Eastern Europe." And
                lastly, a French inventory states: "chausses...à longues poulaines de
                balaine" indicating that the toes may have been held up with whalebone.

                Katherine
              • Marilyn Kinyon
                Sorry, I probably won t make it to An Tir anytime soon. However, I would be happy to send you a copy of the notes for the classes when I have them done? Just
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 13, 2008
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                  Sorry, I probably won't make it to An Tir anytime soon.

                  However, I would be happy to send you a copy of the notes for the
                  classes when I have them done?

                  Just privately email me snail mail.. same offer goes for everyone else.
                  Marija
                • kevin purtrell
                  Has anyone read this:? Title: The orient in Polish art : catalogue of the exhibition, June - October 1992, National Museum in Cracow / Author(s):
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 13, 2008
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                    Has anyone read this:?

                    Title: The orient in Polish art :
                    catalogue of the exhibition, June - October 1992,
                    National Museum in Cracow /
                    Author(s): Biedronska-Slotowa, Beata.
                    Malcharek, Krystyna.
                    Szyper, Barbara.
                    Publication: Cracow : National Museum,
                    Year: 1992
                    Description: 41, [3] s., [136] s. tabl. ; 29 cm.
                    Language: English

                    Its not available through Inter-Library Loan. Amazon does have a copy for $35.00
                    Is it worth buying?

                    -Kevin Ambrozijwski


                    Katherine Barich <wheezul@...> wrote:
                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of Poulaines in Poland
                    > before they reached western Europe? Is there any evidence for the
                    > poulaine-style of shoe from that at all?
                    >
                    > I couldn't find anything about it in the archives.
                    >
                    > Also, is there much evidence for pattens/trippe/clogs/over-sandals in
                    > Eastern Europe? There is a bast sandal from 10th century Latvia which
                    > might be a sort of overshoe, or something more akin to a Russian
                    > peasants' lapti, but I don't know of anything else.
                    >
                    > Would anyone more knowledgeable about footwear be able to help?
                    > ~Asfridhr

                    Hi again Asfridhr,

                    I just have run across an article that might shed some light on your
                    question about poulaines/crackowes.

                    "Cracows, Poulaines and Polony Fashion" by June Swann, in "Crossroads
                    of Costume and Textiles in Poland, Papers from the International
                    Conference of the ICOM Costume Committee at the National Museum in
                    Cracow, September 28 - October 4, 2003", Edited by Beata Biedronska-
                    Slotowa. National Museum in Cracow, publisher, 2005.

                    Apparently June Swann has been studying the cracow/poulaine question
                    for over 50(!) years, and making her first visit to Poland in 2000
                    asked further questions. She says: "Though the crackow/poulaine style
                    actually starts ca. 1340 in Poland, and so after 1350 in England, the
                    first written references I have found to the words are ca. 1362
                    ('turned-up toes a finger long, called crackows'). She concludes that
                    the word crackow/poulaine actually only referred to the long toe
                    portion, but I don't think she really has the answer to why the shoes
                    were so named in the West.

                    She also provides a listing of period citations that quoted the words
                    poulaine, crackowe, polony heel and Polish boots (and those metal
                    horseshoe heels). These citations list the sources but are a bit
                    frustratingly incomplete. For example, you might like to find the
                    cited article "Pattens from Pyrzyce and Medieval Shoe Fashion" by M.
                    Gutkowska-Rychlewska but she doesn't list the publication in which the
                    article appears.

                    Three other small notes - Gutkowska-Rychlewska is quoted: "poulaine
                    has a second meaning of ship prow". Dr. Beata Slotowa, Krackow
                    Costume Curator is quoted regarding poulaines: "Fourteenth-fifteenth
                    century shoes in Poland were in west European styles; some of them
                    bought there. The fashion did not originate in Eastern Europe." And
                    lastly, a French inventory states: "chausses...à longues poulaines de
                    balaine" indicating that the toes may have been held up with whalebone.

                    Katherine





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