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new hat and temple ring help

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  • Lente
    hello all, I am cross posting this to several lists, to see if I can get some answers on how to finish a hat and some info about temple rings, who wore them
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 5, 2007
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      hello all,

      I am cross posting this to several lists, to see if I can get some
      answers on how to finish a hat and some info about temple rings, who
      wore them etc. I just put some new pictures in my photo albums, for the
      sig and magyar list it would be kathw's and for the mongol and kaganate
      groups it is listed as Chinua's.

      I started working on a black linen hat with a white linen brim (think
      sort of like a sailor's hat) last summer and got immensely sidetracked
      from finishing it then. I posted a photo of it as it is right now in the
      photo section. its the basic Mongol style hat with 6 panels and a brim.
      The brim I was trying for was one that would stand away from the rest of
      the hat a bit and be decorated with embroidery, instead of a fur brim. I
      am building this hat to be used in the summer and at inside events where
      the heavier wool and fur hat I made previously is too hot to wear. I
      am having some trouble with the brim, it ended up being shorter in the
      front then at the sides. It first my thoughts are that I can take it
      apart and resew it to hopefully get an even width brim, which since I
      hate ripping seams out is why I haven't fixed it as of yet. My other
      thought is to ask people on the various lists if there are any mongol or
      nomadic hat of a similar style that would have had a narrower width at
      the front then the sides or back? If it is a possiblity to have a
      narrower front and wider sides then I could finish the hat as is and get
      started on designing the embroidery pattern for the brim. any thoughts
      on what brims would look like?

      I also posted a photo of one of the temple rings I put together from a
      couple of earrings I found at Big Lots, what does everyone think? It has
      a large brown wood bead near the top, I am planning to change it out and
      put in a pearl, turquoise or red stone bead in its place in the near
      future. Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
      can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn them.

      thanks for any help on these questions.

      Kathws
    • Su Ralston
      ... [snipped] I am having some trouble with the brim, it ended up being shorter in the front then at the sides. I don t have any information about historical
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 6, 2007
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        You wrote:
        > I started working on a black linen hat with a white linen brim
        [snipped] I am having some trouble with the brim, it ended up being
        shorter in the front then at the sides.

        I don't have any information about historical accuracy, but I think
        the hat looks nice. I wouldn't wear it with the light yellow veil
        because the colors aren't great together (it just looks like the veil
        is dirty).

        > I also posted a photo of one of the temple rings I put together from
        a couple of earrings I found at Big Lots, what does everyone think?

        Looks nice, maybe move it so it hangs right in front of your ear...
        when you are wearing it, if it gets in the way of answering your cell
        phone, the placement is about right ;-)

        Su
      • L.M. Kies
        ... I don t know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore temple rings. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 6, 2007
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          >------- Original Message -------
          > Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
          >can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn them.

          I don't know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore temple rings.

          http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
          http://www.istorija.lt/lim/svetikas2000en.html ("multi-bead" temple rings = "three-bead" temple rings)


          Sofya



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lente
          ... Oh yeah that color of yellow is terrible on me anyway, looking like I am half dead or very jaundice isn t the look I want to go for. I had dragged it out
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 7, 2007
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            Su Ralston wrote:
            > You wrote:
            >
            >> I started working on a black linen hat with a white linen brim
            >>
            > [snipped] I am having some trouble with the brim, it ended up being
            > shorter in the front then at the sides.
            >
            > I don't have any information about historical accuracy, but I think
            > the hat looks nice. I wouldn't wear it with the light yellow veil
            > because the colors aren't great together (it just looks like the veil
            > is dirty).
            >
            Oh yeah that color of yellow is terrible on me anyway, looking like I
            am half dead or very jaundice isn't the look I want to go for. I had
            dragged it out of the fabric stash as a possible trim fabric on a mongol
            del for my daughter. I didn't end up using it but it was handy to show
            the bottom edge of the hat, white on white just doesn't show up well in
            photos. I have a thin white India cotton fabric that has a built in 1
            1/2" wide white rayon trim on the selvage edges that I was planning to
            use for the veil on the hat, now I just have to finish the dang hat.
            > I also posted a photo of one of the temple rings I put together from a couple of earrings I found at Big Lots, what does everyone think?
            >
            > Looks nice, maybe move it so it hangs right in front of your ear...
            > when you are wearing it, if it gets in the way of answering your cell
            > phone, the placement is about right ;-)
            >
            >
            The location of the temple rings is good to now, I know I had seen
            pictures or line drawing of the temple rings and where they are placed
            before but couldn't remember what was my search criteria for them.

            Kathws
          • Lente
            I sort of remember something temple ring-ish for the magyar ladies but it may just be a faulty memory or a line drawing of a Rus lady I am thinking of. Sigh I
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 7, 2007
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              I sort of remember something temple ring-ish for the magyar ladies but
              it may just be a faulty memory or a line drawing of a Rus lady I am
              thinking of.
              Sigh I wish I even remembered where I saw it right now. Thanks for the
              links, I will check them out better on Monday, somedays the holidays are
              the pits and today almost qualifies for that.

              I still got to set up my kids easter baskets.

              Kathws

              L.M. Kies wrote:
              >> ------- Original Message -------
              >> Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
              >> can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn them.
              >>
              >
              > I don't know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore temple rings.
              >
              > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
              > http://www.istorija.lt/lim/svetikas2000en.html ("multi-bead" temple rings = "three-bead" temple rings)
              >
              >
              > Sofya
            • milica_od_tuzla
              What about Serb women, did they wear temple rings? And what time frame are we looking at for temple rings? ... but ... am ... for the ... holidays are ...
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 7, 2007
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                What about Serb women, did they wear temple rings? And what time
                frame are we looking at for temple rings?




                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lente <lente@...> wrote:
                >
                > I sort of remember something temple ring-ish for the magyar ladies
                but
                > it may just be a faulty memory or a line drawing of a Rus lady I
                am
                > thinking of.
                > Sigh I wish I even remembered where I saw it right now. Thanks
                for the
                > links, I will check them out better on Monday, somedays the
                holidays are
                > the pits and today almost qualifies for that.
                >
                > I still got to set up my kids easter baskets.
                >
                > Kathws
                >
                > L.M. Kies wrote:
                > >> ------- Original Message -------
                > >> Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
                > >> can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn them.
                > >>
                > >
                > > I don't know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore
                temple rings.
                > >
                > > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
                > > http://www.istorija.lt/lim/svetikas2000en.html ("multi-bead"
                temple rings = "three-bead" temple rings)
                > >
                > >
                > > Sofya
                >
              • Doug Petroshius
                Hello Everyone, I used to be on this list a while ago and have since returned. My name is Gintaras and I am from the Middle. I portray a Lithuanian noble from
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 9, 2007
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                  Hello Everyone,

                  I used to be on this list a while ago and have since returned. My name is
                  Gintaras and I am from the Middle. I portray a Lithuanian noble from 1410. I
                  have gathered quite a lot of research and come to the conclusion that the
                  Eastern Lithuanian's clothing (and armor) was mostly influenced by the Rus
                  and the Byzantine. (The Western being influenced by the Poles and Tuetonic
                  Knights).

                  My Question: Does anyone have documentation (pictures or descriptions) of
                  what Eastern Lithuanian nobles (particularly men) would have worn in 1410? I
                  have a pretty good kit of armor that I have been wearing that is based off
                  of the Osprey Military Handbook Battle of Tannenburg 1410, but now I am
                  looking for everyday wear/court garb.

                  Any information is greatly appreciated.

                  ~Gintaras~
                  [GIN -tah - rahs]





                  >From: "milica_od_tuzla" <carrieafl@...>
                  >Reply-To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [sig] Re: new hat and temple ring help
                  >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 01:25:11 -0000
                  >
                  >What about Serb women, did they wear temple rings? And what time
                  >frame are we looking at for temple rings?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lente <lente@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I sort of remember something temple ring-ish for the magyar ladies
                  >but
                  > > it may just be a faulty memory or a line drawing of a Rus lady I
                  >am
                  > > thinking of.
                  > > Sigh I wish I even remembered where I saw it right now. Thanks
                  >for the
                  > > links, I will check them out better on Monday, somedays the
                  >holidays are
                  > > the pits and today almost qualifies for that.
                  > >
                  > > I still got to set up my kids easter baskets.
                  > >
                  > > Kathws
                  > >
                  > > L.M. Kies wrote:
                  > > >> ------- Original Message -------
                  > > >> Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
                  > > >> can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn them.
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore
                  >temple rings.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
                  > > > http://www.istorija.lt/lim/svetikas2000en.html ("multi-bead"
                  >temple rings = "three-bead" temple rings)
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Sofya
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                • kevin purtrell
                  You ll have to come over sometime and look at our Polish costume books. Perhaps I can bring them to a fighting practice some
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 10, 2007
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                    <please snip your posts - thanks!>

                    You'll have to come over sometime and look at our Polish costume books. Perhaps I can bring them to a fighting practice some time.

                    -Kevin Ambrozijwski

                    Doug Petroshius <gintarasthetaura@...> wrote:
                    Hello Everyone,

                    I used to be on this list a while ago and have since returned. My name is
                    Gintaras and I am from the Middle. I portray a Lithuanian noble from 1410. I
                    have gathered quite a lot of research and come to the conclusion that the
                    Eastern Lithuanian's clothing (and armor) was mostly influenced by the Rus
                    and the Byzantine. (The Western being influenced by the Poles and Tuetonic
                    Knights).

                    My Question: Does anyone have documentation (pictures or descriptions) of
                    what Eastern Lithuanian nobles (particularly men) would have worn in 1410? I
                    have a pretty good kit of armor that I have been wearing that is based off
                    of the Osprey Military Handbook Battle of Tannenburg 1410, but now I am
                    looking for everyday wear/court garb.

                    Any information is greatly appreciated.

                    ~Gintaras~
                    [GIN -tah - ras]
                  • Rick Orli
                    1410 is way before my specialty of study (in time) but your conclusion seems odd to me. By eastern Lithuanian, do you mean the Ruthen /Rus natives of Today s
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 10, 2007
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                      1410 is way before my specialty of study (in time) but your
                      conclusion seems odd to me. By eastern Lithuanian, do you mean the
                      Ruthen /Rus natives of Today's east Belarus and Smolensk and east
                      Ukrainian regions of the Grand Duchy? If so OK. But if you mean the
                      small number of actual ethnic Lithuanians in that area, mostly
                      members of the elite ruling and military classes, I don't know. The
                      Lithuanians seemed to be wearing an odd mix of western and eastern
                      in the 1400s, a little unique. In the late 1400s and early 1500s
                      they start looking like new-age Tatars in Kaftans and whatnot. In
                      the mid-late 1500s the Poles adopt the Lithuanian kaftan fashions
                      with a dash of Hungarian in the mix.

                      I went to a Lithuanian festival and some guy started a finger-
                      shaking lecture at me, saying I was dressed as a Pole...not a
                      Lithuanian. Wrong! The Poles copied that zupon and delia and kontuz
                      look from the lithuanians not the other way around.
                      -Rick
                      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Petroshius" <gintarasthetaura@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Everyone,
                      >
                      > I used to be on this list a while ago and have since returned. My
                      name is
                      > Gintaras and I am from the Middle. I portray a Lithuanian noble
                      from 1410. I
                      > have gathered quite a lot of research and come to the conclusion
                      that the
                      > Eastern Lithuanian's clothing (and armor) was mostly influenced by
                      the Rus
                      > and the Byzantine. (The Western being influenced by the Poles and
                      Tuetonic
                      > Knights).
                      >
                      > My Question: Does anyone have documentation (pictures or
                      descriptions) of
                      > what Eastern Lithuanian nobles (particularly men) would have worn
                      in 1410? I
                      > have a pretty good kit of armor that I have been wearing that is
                      based off
                      > of the Osprey Military Handbook Battle of Tannenburg 1410, but now
                      I am
                      > looking for everyday wear/court garb.
                      >
                      > Any information is greatly appreciated.
                      >
                      > ~Gintaras~
                      > [GIN -tah - rahs]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >From: "milica_od_tuzla" <carrieafl@...>
                      > >Reply-To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: [sig] Re: new hat and temple ring help
                      > >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 01:25:11 -0000
                      > >
                      > >What about Serb women, did they wear temple rings? And what time
                      > >frame are we looking at for temple rings?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lente <lente@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I sort of remember something temple ring-ish for the magyar
                      ladies
                      > >but
                      > > > it may just be a faulty memory or a line drawing of a Rus lady
                      I
                      > >am
                      > > > thinking of.
                      > > > Sigh I wish I even remembered where I saw it right now. Thanks
                      > >for the
                      > > > links, I will check them out better on Monday, somedays the
                      > >holidays are
                      > > > the pits and today almost qualifies for that.
                      > > >
                      > > > I still got to set up my kids easter baskets.
                      > > >
                      > > > Kathws
                      > > >
                      > > > L.M. Kies wrote:
                      > > > >> ------- Original Message -------
                      > > > >> Which cultures wore temple rings? and how do they hook on? I
                      > > > >> can't remember if Magyar women of 800 ad would have worn
                      them.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I don't know about Magyar, but Rus and Lithuanian women wore
                      > >temple rings.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/trmain/tr1main.html
                      > > > > http://www.istorija.lt/lim/svetikas2000en.html ("multi-bead"
                      > >temple rings = "three-bead" temple rings)
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sofya
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Doug Petroshius
                      Sorry about the lack of snipping. When I got back on this list, I told myself I wouldn t and then just after I clicked send I said DOH! ... My persona was
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 10, 2007
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                        Sorry about the lack of snipping. When I got back on this list, I told
                        myself I wouldn't and then just after I clicked send I said "'DOH!"

                        >1410 is way before my specialty of study (in time) but your
                        >conclusion seems odd to me. By eastern Lithuanian, do you mean the
                        >Ruthen /Rus natives of Today's east Belarus and Smolensk and east
                        >Ukrainian regions of the Grand Duchy? If so OK.

                        My persona was in Central Lithuania in terms of the GDL in that time period.

                        But if you mean the
                        >small number of actual ethnic Lithuanians in that area, mostly
                        >members of the elite ruling and military classes, I don't know.

                        Yes, he would have been of noble birth. But I have portrayed my persona to
                        be of those mounted lithuanians that were at the battle. My research does
                        indicate that the wealthier ones had heavier armor (which I am sure is the
                        case in other cultures).

                        The
                        >Lithuanians seemed to be wearing an odd mix of western and eastern
                        >in the 1400s, a little unique.

                        That helps a lot, actually, but it appears it is the hardest time period to
                        research. At least I know with some level of reasoning that the Polish-Rus
                        thing will work.

                        >
                        >I went to a Lithuanian festival and some guy started a finger-
                        >shaking lecture at me, saying I was dressed as a Pole...not a
                        >Lithuanian. Wrong! The Poles copied that zupon and delia and kontuz
                        >look from the lithuanians not the other way around.
                        >-Rick

                        That guy wasn't me!!! :) ----Did he say what a Lithuanian *should* be
                        dressed as?
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