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RE: Re: [sig] Russian Bag/Beltbag?

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  • L.M. Kies
    ... The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not give the dates. I don t have access to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 8, 2007
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      On 2/8/07, steffi241 <steffi241@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
      >
      > http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg
      >
      > Pictures are from the book:
      > Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura
      >
      >Now my question, does anybody know, from which
      > part of russia the bags are, and how they are dated?
      >

      The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not give the dates. I don't have access to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some other books...

      I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka #10 is 13th century according to Drevnij Novgorod: Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i Arkheologiya. A similar "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj Evropy. The koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-15th century.

      I hope that helps.

      Sofya

      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
      "Si no necare, sana."
      --------------------------------------------------------------------





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • steffi kring
      Hi, thank you very much for your help, that helps a lot. ... http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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        Hi,
        thank you very much for your help, that helps a lot.
        :-)

        --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> schrieb:

        >
        >
        > On 2/8/07, steffi241 <steffi241@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
        > >
        > >
        >
        http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg
        >
        > >
        > > Pictures are from the book:
        > > Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura
        > >
        > >Now my question, does anybody know, from which
        > > part of russia the bags are, and how they are
        > dated?
        > >
        >
        > The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The
        > captions do not give the dates. I don't have access
        > to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin
        > (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like
        > Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some
        > other books...
        >
        > I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka
        > #10 is 13th century according to Drevnij Novgorod:
        > Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i Arkheologiya. A similar
        > "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in
        > Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj
        > Evropy. The koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of
        > Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-15th century.
        >
        > I hope that helps.
        >
        > Sofya
        >
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
        > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        > "Si no necare, sana."
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >




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      • Su Ralston
        Thanks to Steffi for asking about these and Sofya for the citations. My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3 across or 6 ? Thanks in
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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          Thanks to Steffi for asking about these and Sofya for the citations.

          My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
          across or 6"?

          Thanks in advance,
          Su

          Steffi asked:
          > > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
          > > http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg

          Sofya replied:
          > The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not
          give the dates. I don't have access to the main text that would
          discuss them in Kolchin (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like
          Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some other books...
          >
          > I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka #10 is 13th
          century according to Drevnij Novgorod: Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i
          Arkheologiya. A similar "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in
          Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj Evropy. The
          koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-
          15th century.
        • L.M. Kies
          ... About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is in centimeters.) Sofya ... Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus Mason City, IA aka
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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            >------- Original Message -------
            >My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
            >across or 6"?

            About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is in centimeters.)

            Sofya

            --------------------------------------------------------------------
            Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
            Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
            http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
            "Si no necare, sana."
            --------------------------------------------------------------------




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Su Ralston
            ... in centimeters.) Just perfect! (My purse is about 6 1/2 x 8 so if I dump a bit it should hold almost everything!) Thanks again! Su
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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              Sofya wrote:
              >
              > >------- Original Message -------
              > >My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
              > >across or 6"?
              >
              > About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is
              in centimeters.)

              Just perfect! (My purse is about 6 1/2 x 8 so if I dump a bit it
              should hold almost everything!)

              Thanks again!
              Su
            • Gloryanna MacKee
              As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can read a bit of
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 16, 2007
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                As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am
                wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can
                read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet. I would
                find it interesting to try doing a Scroll in one of the above writing.

                Gloryanna

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              • L.M. Kies
                Poklon ot Sofya. ... You could try these links: http://character.webzone.ru/ - has scans of period Russian manuscripts. Even if you don t know Russian, you ll
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 16, 2007
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                  Poklon ot Sofya.

                  >------- Original Message -------
                  >
                  >As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am
                  >wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can
                  >read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet.

                  You could try these links:

                  http://character.webzone.ru/ - has scans of period Russian manuscripts. Even if you don't know Russian, you'll be able to recognize the dates. XI would be 11th cent., 1397, etc.
                  http://character.webzone.ru/ - some of the illustrations have snippets of calligraphy.
                  http://kodeks.uni-bamberg.de/Russia/Texts/SolovVostFacs.htm - 17th cent. manuscript
                  http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/themes/euromanuscripts/bulggosp.html - Bulgarian gospel of Tsar Ivan Alexander.
                  http://knowledgepages.scadianrus.org/calligraphy.html - links on the Russian Knowledge Pages. Compare with above.

                  K tvoim uslugam,

                  Sofya

                  --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                  Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                  "Si no necare, sana."
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • quokkaqueen
                  Well, you mentioned Lithuanian, so you could try these: http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=7336&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=-459.html
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 17, 2007
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                    Well, you mentioned Lithuanian, so you could try these:

                    http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=7336&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=-459.html
                    http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/indexen.en.htm

                    Both are from the SIG Baltic page http://www.499angels.net/baltic/li.html

                    Enjoy,
                    ~Asfridhr
                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Gloryanna MacKee" <gloryannamackee@...>
                    <<snip>>
                    I can
                    > read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet. I
                    would
                    > find it interesting to try doing a Scroll in one of the above writing.
                    >
                    > Gloryanna
                    <<snip>>
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