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Russian Bag/Beltbag?

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  • steffi241
    Hello, I´ve got a question about these two bags. http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg Pictures are from the book: Drevnyaya Rus : Byt i
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 8, 2007
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      Hello,
      I´ve got a question about these two bags.

      http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg

      Pictures are from the book:
      Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura

      Maybe somebody of you have seen the pictures anywhere!?The underline
      only tell me, that it is a bag :-/ And I cannot read any russian, I
      translate letter by letter, but I didn´t find the textpassage which
      discribes the bags. Now my question, does anybody know, from which
      part of russia the bags are, and how they are dated?

      Thanks for your help and greetings, Steffi!
    • Kseniia Smolnianina
      Hi, Steffi! Unless someone else answers first, I would be happy to look it up for you when I get home from work. (I don t have the book with me.) I do read
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 8, 2007
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        Hi, Steffi!

        Unless someone else answers first, I would be happy to look it up for you
        when I get home from work. (I don't have the book with me.) I do read
        Russian, and I can tell you what the caption says, and possibly find more
        information in the longer article.

        --Kseniia

        On 2/8/07, steffi241 <steffi241@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
        >
        > http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg
        >
        > Pictures are from the book:
        > Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura
        >
        > Maybe somebody of you have seen the pictures anywhere!?The underline
        > only tell me, that it is a bag :-/ And I cannot read any russian, I
        > translate letter by letter, but I didn´t find the textpassage which
        > discribes the bags. Now my question, does anybody know, from which
        > part of russia the bags are, and how they are dated?
        >
        > Thanks for your help and greetings, Steffi!
        >
        > _
        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        **********************************
        HL Kseniia Smolnianina, JdL
        Barony of Three Mountains
        Kingdom of An Tir


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • L.M. Kies
        ... The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not give the dates. I don t have access to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 8, 2007
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          On 2/8/07, steffi241 <steffi241@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
          >
          > http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg
          >
          > Pictures are from the book:
          > Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura
          >
          >Now my question, does anybody know, from which
          > part of russia the bags are, and how they are dated?
          >

          The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not give the dates. I don't have access to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some other books...

          I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka #10 is 13th century according to Drevnij Novgorod: Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i Arkheologiya. A similar "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj Evropy. The koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-15th century.

          I hope that helps.

          Sofya

          --------------------------------------------------------------------
          Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
          Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
          http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
          "Si no necare, sana."
          --------------------------------------------------------------------





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • steffi kring
          Hi, thank you very much for your help, that helps a lot. ... http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 12, 2007
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            Hi,
            thank you very much for your help, that helps a lot.
            :-)

            --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> schrieb:

            >
            >
            > On 2/8/07, steffi241 <steffi241@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
            > >
            > >
            >
            http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg
            >
            > >
            > > Pictures are from the book:
            > > Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i kultura
            > >
            > >Now my question, does anybody know, from which
            > > part of russia the bags are, and how they are
            > dated?
            > >
            >
            > The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The
            > captions do not give the dates. I don't have access
            > to the main text that would discuss them in Kolchin
            > (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like
            > Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some
            > other books...
            >
            > I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka
            > #10 is 13th century according to Drevnij Novgorod:
            > Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i Arkheologiya. A similar
            > "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in
            > Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj
            > Evropy. The koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of
            > Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-15th century.
            >
            > I hope that helps.
            >
            > Sofya
            >
            >
            --------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
            > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
            > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
            > "Si no necare, sana."
            >
            --------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >




            ___________________________________________________________
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          • Su Ralston
            Thanks to Steffi for asking about these and Sofya for the citations. My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3 across or 6 ? Thanks in
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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              Thanks to Steffi for asking about these and Sofya for the citations.

              My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
              across or 6"?

              Thanks in advance,
              Su

              Steffi asked:
              > > I´ve got a question about these two bags.
              > > http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8979/russiahm0.jpg

              Sofya replied:
              > The items on that page are all from Novgorod. The captions do not
              give the dates. I don't have access to the main text that would
              discuss them in Kolchin (I only copied the pictures) - it sounds like
              Kseniia can find that for us... but I have some other books...
              >
              > I haven't found sumka (pocketbook) #9 yet, but sumka #10 is 13th
              century according to Drevnij Novgorod: Prikladnoe Iskusstvo i
              Arkheologiya. A similar "kalita" is dated to the 15th century in
              Rabinovich's Drevnyaya Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoj Evropy. The
              koshel'ki (purses) on the same page of Kolchin (#1-8) range from 13th-
              15th century.
            • L.M. Kies
              ... About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is in centimeters.) Sofya ... Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus Mason City, IA aka
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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                >------- Original Message -------
                >My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
                >across or 6"?

                About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is in centimeters.)

                Sofya

                --------------------------------------------------------------------
                Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                "Si no necare, sana."
                --------------------------------------------------------------------




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Su Ralston
                ... in centimeters.) Just perfect! (My purse is about 6 1/2 x 8 so if I dump a bit it should hold almost everything!) Thanks again! Su
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 13, 2007
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                  Sofya wrote:
                  >
                  > >------- Original Message -------
                  > >My question, do we have scale measurements? As in, are they 3"
                  > >across or 6"?
                  >
                  > About 8 inches wide. (The scale on the orginal page in Kolchin is
                  in centimeters.)

                  Just perfect! (My purse is about 6 1/2 x 8 so if I dump a bit it
                  should hold almost everything!)

                  Thanks again!
                  Su
                • Gloryanna MacKee
                  As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can read a bit of
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 16, 2007
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                    As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am
                    wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can
                    read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet. I would
                    find it interesting to try doing a Scroll in one of the above writing.

                    Gloryanna

                    _________________________________________________________________
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                  • L.M. Kies
                    Poklon ot Sofya. ... You could try these links: http://character.webzone.ru/ - has scans of period Russian manuscripts. Even if you don t know Russian, you ll
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 16, 2007
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                      Poklon ot Sofya.

                      >------- Original Message -------
                      >
                      >As I neither speak or can really read Russian, Polish or Latin, I am
                      >wondering if there is there a speciall calligraphy style they used? I can
                      >read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet.

                      You could try these links:

                      http://character.webzone.ru/ - has scans of period Russian manuscripts. Even if you don't know Russian, you'll be able to recognize the dates. XI would be 11th cent., 1397, etc.
                      http://character.webzone.ru/ - some of the illustrations have snippets of calligraphy.
                      http://kodeks.uni-bamberg.de/Russia/Texts/SolovVostFacs.htm - 17th cent. manuscript
                      http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/themes/euromanuscripts/bulggosp.html - Bulgarian gospel of Tsar Ivan Alexander.
                      http://knowledgepages.scadianrus.org/calligraphy.html - links on the Russian Knowledge Pages. Compare with above.

                      K tvoim uslugam,

                      Sofya

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                      "Si no necare, sana."
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • quokkaqueen
                      Well, you mentioned Lithuanian, so you could try these: http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=7336&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=-459.html
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 17, 2007
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                        Well, you mentioned Lithuanian, so you could try these:

                        http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=7336&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=-459.html
                        http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/indexen.en.htm

                        Both are from the SIG Baltic page http://www.499angels.net/baltic/li.html

                        Enjoy,
                        ~Asfridhr
                        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Gloryanna MacKee" <gloryannamackee@...>
                        <<snip>>
                        I can
                        > read a bit of Lithuanian, But haven't found much online as of yet. I
                        would
                        > find it interesting to try doing a Scroll in one of the above writing.
                        >
                        > Gloryanna
                        <<snip>>
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