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Re: [sig] Re: A question about cotton...

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  • Ilijana Krakowska
    Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one can buy knitted linen underpants? Ilijana Krakowska Per pale argent and gules, two cats
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 23, 2007
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      Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one can buy knitted linen underpants?


      Ilijana Krakowska
      Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.

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    • Lynda Fjellman
      Technically, *yes*. BUT! I don t think so. But wouldn t it be nice? Ilaria Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one can buy
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 23, 2007
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        Technically, *yes*. BUT! I don't think so. But wouldn't it be nice?
        Ilaria


        Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one
        can buy knitted linen underpants?


        Ilijana Krakowska
      • Omo
        No, tricot is a type of knit, and it s generally done with synthetic fibers because they are filiment fibers, not staple. Staple fibers rub off and get caught
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 23, 2007
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          No, tricot is a type of knit, and it's generally done with synthetic fibers
          because they are filiment fibers, not staple. Staple fibers rub off and get
          caught in the loom eyes clog up the mechanism to the point where it doesn't
          become worthwhile. If you want lace in natural fibers, you have to get it
          the old fashioned way, or at least not in tricot. (which is primarily used
          to make lace and netting kinds of fabrics)

          As for linen knit, I think it doesn't have especially good resilient
          qualities, so in a knit form it would stretch, and then stay stretched out,
          it wouldn't snap back like a well behaved knit. (sort of like how cotton
          sweaters stretch and get misshapen) I'm not saying it's impossible,
          especially if you spun it with some spandex or a little something stretchy
          to make it bounce back. (it wouldn't do to lose your drawers) But, it
          would be tricky.

          --Mo


          On 1/23/07, Ilijana Krakowska <ilijanakrakowska@...> wrote:
          >
          > Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one
          > can buy knitted linen underpants?
          >
          > Ilijana Krakowska
          > Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.
          >
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          > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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          >
          >


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        • Ilijana Krakowska
          Well, I m trying to imagine my cotton underwear made from linen instead, and it isn t easy. I am just having a hard time envisioning a linen thread that is
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 23, 2007
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            Well, I'm trying to imagine my cotton underwear made from linen instead, and it isn't easy. I am just having a hard time envisioning a linen thread that is pliable enough to stand up to knitting. Mo mentioned the staple fiber getting stuck in the knitting machines and the lack of resiliency which would cause the garment to lose its shape. It would also tend to wear-out faster.

            So, while I do have plans to make a pair of linen undershorts for summer wear, I don't think I'll be looking for knit linen anytime soon.

            Lynda Fjellman <lfjellman@...> wrote:
            Technically, *yes*. BUT! I don't think so. But wouldn't it be nice?
            Ilaria


            Did I understand correctly that tricot can be had in linen, or that one
            can buy knitted linen underpants?


            Ilijana Krakowska



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            Ilijana Krakowska
            Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.

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          • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
            Greetings ... can I have a humble question: WHY do you need modern-fashioned (as I got from the discussion) underwear made of period material made in no-period
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 24, 2007
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              Greetings
              >> So, while I do have plans to make a pair of linen undershorts for summer wear, I don't think I'll be looking for knit linen anytime soon.

              can I have a humble question: WHY do you need modern-fashioned (as I got from the discussion) underwear made of period material made in no-period technique?
              Can't you simply have linen boxers etc? This will be way more hygienic and comfortable than tricot.

              Bye,
              Alex
            • Ilijana Krakowska
              Well, having form-fitting underwear with the wonderful properties of linen would be heavenly in my mundane life. For under my tunics, linen boxers would be
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 24, 2007
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                Well, having form-fitting underwear with the wonderful properties of linen would be heavenly in my mundane life.

                For under my tunics, linen "boxers" would be close to what I have in mind for my undershorts. I prefer to have something to keep the sweat from running down my legs in the summer without bunching up in uncomfortable ways.

                As for making them period, I haven't a clue how linen underpants would have been constructed in 13th century Poland


                Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...> wrote:


                Greetings
                >> So, while I do have plans to make a pair of linen undershorts for summer wear, I don't think I'll be looking for knit linen anytime soon.

                can I have a humble question: WHY do you need modern-fashioned (as I got from the discussion) underwear made of period material made in no-period technique?
                Can't you simply have linen boxers etc? This will be way more hygienic and comfortable than tricot.

                Bye,
                Alex


                Ilijana Krakowska
                Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.

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              • Lynda Fjellman
                Huh? I am just having a hard time envisioning a linen thread that is pliable enough to stand up to knitting. Linen is quite pliable enough to
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 24, 2007
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                  Huh?
                  <snip>
                  I am just having a hard time envisioning a linen thread that is pliable
                  enough to stand up to knitting.
                  <snip>

                  Linen is quite "pliable" enough to knit, we make lace of it all the
                  time. I use it for hand sewing thread and if you get good quality linen
                  thread, you can use it in your sewing machine, (it isn't the thickness
                  or the stiffness it is the slubs that keep it out of the machine. There
                  is no intrinsic reason not to knit it. High quality line linen has
                  longer staple than any cotton ever produced, and there is such a thing
                  as "cotton tricot" so there is no reason for not producing "linen
                  tricot", other than perceived lack of demand.
                  Linen is inherently less strectchy than cotton or synthetic fibers, but
                  that has nothing to do with keeping underwear, panties or knickers on.
                  We use elastic for that regardless of the fiber content of the rest of
                  the garment.

                  Tricot isn't really a lace knit. It is a plain single knit in its basic
                  form. We just think of is as being fine or lacy as that is the way we
                  see it most often.
                  Of course we could be running into language problems here, Tricot in
                  American English is a plain thin knit. Tricot in French, I think,
                  *means* knit.
                  Ilaria
                • Lynda Fjellman
                  Probably just like everywhere else! Not trying to sound flippant, but there are only a very few ways to make britches that fit and everyone seems to have
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 24, 2007
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                    Probably just like everywhere else!

                    Not trying to sound flippant, but there are only a very few ways to make
                    britches that fit and everyone seems to have thought of them. If you
                    google braes, or trous or some other "period" word for underpants, you
                    will find a couple ideas on the subject.
                    Ilaria


                    As for making them period, I haven't a clue how linen underpants would
                    have been constructed in 13th century Poland


                    Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...> wrote:
                  • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
                    Greetings ... ?????? Then I am completely off the path. What britches or breeches or pants exactly do you mean? ... Ah, brae... the group name is sig, ain t
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 25, 2007
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                      Greetings
                      > Probably just like everywhere else!
                      > Not trying to sound flippant, but there are only a very few ways to make
                      > britches that fit and everyone seems to have thought of them. If you
                      ??????
                      Then I am completely off the path. What britches or breeches or pants exactly do you mean?

                      > google braes, or trous or some other "period" word for underpants, you
                      Ah, brae...
                      the group name is sig, ain't it?
                      No braes for Rus or even Poland, if I am not mistaken. And the Russian pants, being an undergarment for most time (afair one of the possible origins of the word Shtany is ishton, "underwear" in Turcic languages), are well reflected in, say, Rabinovich - no tricot, no knitting. Just gores.
                      > will find a couple ideas on the subject.
                      > Ilaria
                      >
                      >
                      > As for making them period, I haven't a clue how linen underpants would
                      > have been constructed in 13th century Poland
                      The same way as simply "pants". Not wide, with gores. Not a great expert in Poland, but from time to time I come across some facts about the neighbors of the Polish.

                      Bye,
                      Alex
                    • magdalenag56
                      Greetings all. I don t know about men s underwear in Medieval Poland but if anyone comes across information on anything on Polish clothing by researching
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 25, 2007
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                        Greetings all.

                        I don't know about men's underwear in Medieval Poland but if anyone
                        comes across information on anything on Polish clothing by researching
                        Russia (or any of Poland's other neighbors) feel free to send it my
                        way either on the list or by private email.

                        I concentrate more on women's clothing. There are several experts out
                        there who know much moe than I on men's and military clothing. But so
                        much is shared not only between countries but between the sexes. What
                        you find may just answer a question I have.

                        When looking at religious art from the region I've noticed what looks
                        like boxers worn in the crucifixion scenes. This is different from
                        simply a draped or wrapped cloth. I will try to find an example and
                        post it in my photo file.

                        Magdalena Gdanska
                      • jennifer knox
                        Hi! A while back I posted a photo of some pants excavated on the Black sea, dating to about 900, that were used by women and men as underwear. look just like
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 25, 2007
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                          Hi!
                          A while back I posted a photo of some pants excavated on the Black sea, dating to about 900, that were used by women and men as underwear. look just like normal pants only they're linen...is the photo still up?
                          Anya

                          Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...> wrote:


                          > As for making them period, I haven't a clue how linen underpants would
                          > have been constructed in 13th century Poland
                          The same way as simply "pants". Not wide, with gores. Not a great expert in Poland, but from time to time I come across some facts about the neighbors of the Polish.

                          Bye,
                          Alex


                          "We must judge men not so much by what they do, as by what they make us feel that they have it in them to do." --Samuel Butler

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                        • Lente
                          yes it is still up, first album 10th c finds of something something, sorry already closed the link. interesting, this is very like what I did for a trial set
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 25, 2007
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                            yes it is still up, first album 10th c finds of something something,
                            sorry already closed the link. interesting, this is very like what I did
                            for a trial set of magyar pants. my magyar pants are a bit fuller
                            though, something like 36 inches in each leg. I think I also used a 12
                            inch or so gusset set about 4-6 inches down from the top of my pants. I
                            also added in a separate waistband casing that is 2-3 inches tall to the
                            top of my trial set of pants, mostly because the fabric I was using is a
                            vintage fabric from the 60s and I wasn't certain how much stress wear it
                            would take. I like my turkish pants better so I never did make a second
                            set to try out fully while camping.

                            This looks to me like you could do each leg to half the waist/hip
                            measurement (unless you have a bigger measurement around your thigh) and
                            then possibly use that number plus 4-5 inches ease as the basis for the
                            width of each leg panel. Possibly use your measurement from waist to
                            knee for leg lenth measurement for undergarments. Gusset looks to be
                            about 1/2 to 2/3 of the leg length measurement in the photo.

                            Interesting very interesting...oh well back to sewing lots of new garb
                            for my husband the soon to be knight...and the Baron and Baroness...

                            Kathws

                            jennifer knox wrote:
                            > Hi!
                            > A while back I posted a photo of some pants excavated on the Black sea, dating to about 900, that were used by women and men as underwear. look just like normal pants only they're linen...is the photo still up?
                            > Anya
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