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Re: linen vs. cotton was[sig] polish garb for men Qs

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  • Tracy Kremer
    Hmmmm - interesting! I had been under the impression that hemp was valued as rope; hadn t realized it was common for sailcloth. Bet it made really strong
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 2, 2006
      Hmmmm - interesting!
      I had been under the impression that hemp was valued
      as rope; hadn't realized it was common for sailcloth.
      Bet it made really strong sails!

      Eluned

      --- bphall76@... wrote:

      > From the research I've done, flax linen was more
      > common in the southern
      > parts of Russia. Towards the north like Kostroma
      > they were using hemp linen.
      > Supposedly, Kostroma was the hemp capitol of the
      > north for quite some time and
      > well know for its sail cloth.
      >
      > Back to lurking
      > Vasilisa Myshkina
      > Glymm Mere, An Tir
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >


      CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

      COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
    • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
      ... here s a slightly updated version of an article on Hemp and Nettle that I wrote for Slovo: Hemp and Nettle: Two Food/Fiber/Medical plants in use in Eastern
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
        > Hmmmm - interesting!
        > I had been under the impression that hemp was valued
        > as rope; hadn't realized it was common for sailcloth.
        > Bet it made really strong sails!
        >
        > Eluned
        >

        here's a slightly updated version of an article on Hemp and Nettle that
        I wrote for Slovo:

        Hemp and Nettle:
        Two Food/Fiber/Medical plants in use in Eastern Europe.
        by Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
        Originally published in Slovo, the newsletter of the Slavic Interest
        Group

        Most of us are familiar with flax and its byproducts including linen and
        linseed oil. However, two related plants show up in East and Central
        Europe for similar purposes: hemp (Cannabis sativa) and nettle (Urtica
        dioica). Both hemp and nettle fibers were used to make cloth, as well as
        being used for food and medicine: remember Shakespeare's 'Hempen
        Homespuns' and the story of Seven Swans whose sister had to spin and
        weave them all nettlecloth shirts without speaking, to turn them back
        into humans?

        Generally, Herodotus' description of the Scythians (residents of what
        would become the Crimea) using hemp is considered the first mention of
        hemp in Russia. Apparently the Scythians used hemp in their steam/sauna
        baths: "These tents were made of thick felt, with all cracks carefully
        sealed up. Inside was placed a bowl full of red-hot stones, onto which
        cannabis seeds were thrown. According to Herodotus, the Scythians would
        howl with delight as they breathed in the fumes. Sitting in these tents
        was clearly one of their favorite pasttimes. The reference to seeds of
        in Herodotus and other sources is puzzling, since as any cannnibis
        smoker knows, the seeds are by far the least intoxicating part of the
        plant. But as the flowering heads, the most potent element, also contain
        the seeds, such confusion is understandable..." (P. James and N. Thorpe,
        Ancient Inventions; NY: Ballantine, 1994, p. 342.) [Interestingly, the
        authors of Ancient Inventions claim that this is confirmed by the finds
        of hempseeds and hempseed smoking kits in tombs on the borders of Russia
        and Mongolia-- presumably the assumption is that the flower heads rotted
        but the seeds remained?]

        However, after the dates of this reference, the archaelogical and
        historical records pretty much fall silent about pot smoking. Instead,
        more mundane uses of hemp crop up. (I find it significant that though
        Arabic and Roman authorities-- i.e. Galen-- mention medicinal
        pot-smoking, it's seldom mentioned in Northern European medieval and
        renaissance sources. Perhaps their hemp was closer to modern industrial
        hemp than the Arabic kind-- apparently the cultivars are significantly
        different.)

        Hemp, as a fiber plant, appears to have spread from the mediterranean
        through the Roman area and also perhaps from the East. The Scythians
        died out before the fall of Rome, and connections between them and
        modern Slavs are considered tenuous by most historians I've read. (An
        excellent article on hemp, nettle, and other fibers such as bast appears
        in World Wide Words, "Fibres from the Earth: Names for some natural
        materials," by Michael Quinion:
        http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/fibres.htm).

        R.J. Forbes, Studies in Ancient Technology, vol IV (EJ Brill, 1987,
        copyright 1956/1964), says, on page 60: "The plant [hemp] came to
        prehistoric Europe from Southern Russia, as is also evident from the
        etymology of the terms for hemp in Indo-Germanic Languages. At
        Wilmersdorf fruit and seeds of hemp were found but no fibres. It may
        have been smoked in the pipes found in the Celtic area of Western
        Switzerland. The Goths brought the plant from Western Russia in the
        second and third century AD and only then did the use of the fibres in
        central Europe start. The Slavonic migrations of the ninth century gave
        a new impetus to its cultivation which begins to displace flax in
        certain regions. It was also used by the Vikings but is still regarded
        with antipathy in medieval western Europe."

        Both hemp and flax were major agricultural crops in Russia in period.
        Hemp was grown in the south, flax in the north. According to the
        Encyclopedia Britannica, one of the major exports of the Muscovy Company
        (founded in the second half of the 16th century) was hemp.

        According to many textile sources, the archaelogical record of hemp and
        nettle fabric is confused by the fact that archaelogists, not being able
        to tell hemp, nettle and flax cloth apart without chemical testing, use
        the term 'linen' to refer to any fabric of spun and woven vegetable
        fibers. (Apparently, however, Czech archaelogists call all such fabrics
        'hemp', according to Alastair Miller.) Linen is not distinguishable from
        hemp or nettle cloth in paintings, either.

        Both hemp and nettle have been used to make fabric since prehistoric
        times, as alternatives to flax, and processed similarly to flax. Hemp,
        with fibers up to 12 feet long, produces a stronger thread than flax;
        nettle produces a somewhat "finer and silkier" fabric than flax. (E.W.
        Barber, Women's Work: the first 20,000 Years: Women, cloth and society
        in early times. W.W. Norton, 1994).

        For near-period English instructions on growing, harvesting and
        processing hemp, see Gervase Markham's English Housewife, 1615. Hemp can
        be either wet retted, by immersion in water such as a pond or stream, or
        dew retted, by laying in the fields. Once "the fiber bundles appear
        white, separate from the woody core, and divide easily into individual,
        finer fibers for their full length," retting is complete, and the stems
        are dried, then broken with a 'breaker'. The fibers are separated using
        processes known as 'scutching' (beating), then hanckled (combed) for
        spinning. (Advances in Hemp Research)

        The Muscovy Company (1555-1649) exported hemp (probably for rope rather
        than cloth) from Russia during their period of operation (Encyclopedia
        Britannica). Hemp and nettle cloth have reportedly been found among the
        clothing in the Scandinavian graves at Birka (Thora Sharptooth, quoted
        in Stefan's Florilegium:
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/hemp-cloth-msg.html)

        Hemp seeds and a fragment of hemp cloth were found the excavations of
        the 12th century levels of Gniezno, according to M. Polcyn,
        "Archaeobotanical Evidence for Food Plants in the Poland of the Piasts
        (10th-13th Centuries AD)", Biological Journal of Scotland, vol 46, no 4,
        p 533-537: "In archaeological sites hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) has been
        found as uncharred achenes. In the early Middle Ages hemp became an
        important technological plant used in the production of thick cloth.
        Fragments of such cloth have been discovered in Gniezno." (p. 535)
        Sophie Knab (Polish Herbs, Flowers & Folk Medicine, Hippocrene Books,
        1995), says of Hemp: ". . . widely cultivated in Poland for its oil and
        fibers. The fibers of hemp were retted, dried and broken on a flax
        brake-- similar to the process used for flax. The thick inner fibers
        were spun on the spinning wheel and then designated for making sacking
        or very strong thread. They were often plied together to make rope."
        Nettle cloth, says Knab, was used in Poland from the 12th century
        onward; "Nettle thread was used in Poland from ancient times up until
        the 17th century when it was replaced by silk." (It also had
        superstitious uses: "Slavic people have attributed magical properties to
        [nettle] since ancient times," using it to defend against demons,
        disperse storms and protect against lightning as well.)

        At least in western Europe, hemp appears to have often been grown in
        small plots and cultivated with garden tools rather than field equipment
        ( Medieval farming and technology : the impact of agricultural change in
        northwest Europe, edited by G. Astill and J. Langdon, New York : Brill,
        1997.). From various references, one suspects that nettle may have been
        primarily gathered from the wild rather than cultivated.

        The Hemp Museum's history page
        (http://hempmuseum.org/SUBROOMS/HEMP%20TEXTILE%20HISTORY.htm) quotes a
        number of statements from The Book of Fine Linen, by Françoise de
        Bonneville (Paris: Flammarion , 1994):

        "Starting around 1322...The finest sheets were of linen, most were
        of hemp, and the poorest woven from tow, scrap hemp, or flax combings. .
        . up to the end of the seventeenth century, sheets were generally made
        from linen or hemp. Historians, citing the fact that the founding of the
        hemp-weavers guild long predated that of the linen-weavers, believe that
        hemp was far more common than linen until the late fourteenth century."

        While hemp can be harvested for either the fiber or the seeds, it
        appears that hemp for fiber needs to be harvested before it goes to
        seed; so different plots would be alloted for fiber production than for
        seed. Advances in Hemp Research (edited by Paolo Ranalli, New York :
        Food Products Press, 1999) says: "The centuries-old method of hemp
        textile production involves . . . Harvesting after flowering but before
        the seeds set, when the stems are whitening at the base and the leaves
        are starting to drop. The fiber content is reduced and becomes coarser
        toward seed formation. Where it is desired to obtain fiber and seed the
        male plants are first collected by hand pulling, and the female plants
        are left to enable the seeds to ripen."

        Magdalena of Vratislavia noted on the Slavic Interest Group list that:

        In "POLONIA SIVE DE SITU, POPULIS, MORIBUS, MAGISTRATIBUS ET
        REPUBLICA REGNI
        POLONICI LIBRI DUO" by Marcin Kromer , first time printed in 1575,
        then 1578 etc. Book one: subtitle: occupations of woman: "Noble ladies
        and maids are taking care of wool, linen and hem..." (in my
        translations)

        Hemp seed oil, obtained by crushing, was a major part of Polish, Russian
        and other Eastern European countries. Hempseed and poppyseed oils were
        necessary for cooking when fast-day restrictions forbade the use of
        animal fats in cooking. In Russia, say Smith and Christian (Bread and
        Salt: A social and economic history of food and drink in Russia. NY:
        Cambridge University Press, 1984), "Hemp and flax . . . were used in
        dishes with peas, for instance, or gave oil which was either an element
        in various dishes or the medium in which they were cooked." (p. 5) The
        Domostroi advises that stores of hempseed and hempseed oil should be
        kept in the house; the post period menus therein include several
        varieties of hempseed cakes, as well as mentions of hempseed oil.

        Hempseed was also stewed into a sort of porridge, popular in Poland.
        According to Dembinska (Food and Drink in Medieval Poland, University of
        PA Press, 1999), hempseed porridge/soup appears to have been served in
        monasteries, garrisons and to the poor; it's unclear whether the
        hempseed oil was extracted first. Though no Eastern European recipes for
        hempseed porridge survive, there is a hempseed porridge recipe in the
        Italian heath handbook by Platina, and the Underground Cooks Collective
        have published a redaction of the recipe on the SCA-Cooks list, and it
        is included in the Florilegium file on Hemp:
        http://www.florilegium.org/files/PLANTS/hemp-msg.html

        The 16th century Polish herbalist Syrenniusz (via Knab) mentions nettle
        cooked with snails, and Lang (George Lang's Cuisine of Hungary) mentions
        the same dish in Hungary. Syrenniusz suggested it for gas and stomach
        cleansing. Smith & Christian also cite nettle, along with sorrel,
        goose-foot and ground-elder as plants that were probably harvested and
        consumed locally in Russia (p.10) .

        Both nettle and hemp were recommended by physicians as treatments.
        Zevin (A Russian Herbal: Traditional Remedies for Health and Healing,
        Healing Arts Press, 1997) notes ". . . during the seventeenth century
        physician's primary interest in nettle centered around the treatment of
        wounds. One Russian herbal of that period, (known simply as The Herbal
        Book) describes the use of nettle: 'we chew raw nettle, mash it and
        apply it to fresh wounds, and so we clean and heal the wounds.' For old,
        infected wounds, the practitioner was advised to crush both the nettle
        leaves and seeds, and add salt: 'Apply to old infected wounds and they
        will get the dead tissue out and heal the wounds.'" (p. 106)

        Hildegarde of Bingen in her treatise on Physic (translated by Patricia
        Throop, Healing Arts Press, 1998) discussed not only the humeric
        properties of hempseed but the use of hemp cloth as a bandage:

        "Hemp is hot, and it grows where the air is neither very hot nor
        very cold, and its nature is similar. Its seed is salubrious, and good
        as food for healthy people. It is gentle and profitable to the stomach,
        taking away a bit of its mucus. It is easy to digest, diminishes bad
        humors, and fortifies good humors. Nevertheless, if one who is weak in
        the head, and has a vacant brain, eats hemp, it easily afflicts his
        head. It does not harm one who has a healthy head and full brain. If one
        is very ill, it even afflicts his stomach a bit. Eating it does not hurt
        one who is moderately ill.
        [Let one who was a cold stomach cook hemp in water and, when the
        water has been squeezed out, wrap it in a small cloth, and frequently
        place it, warm, on his stomach. This strengthens and renews that area.
        Also, a cloth made from hemp is good for binding ulcers and wounds,
        since the heat in it has been tempered.]"

        Hildegarde also recommended eating the young shoots of nettle as a tonic
        (as American modern and colonial herbalists suggest), "Nettle is very
        hot in its own way. It is not at all good eaten raw, because of its
        harshness. But, when it newly sprouts from the ground, it is good when
        cooked, as food for a human. It purges his stomach and takes mucus away
        from it. Any kind of nettle does this." She also suggested preparations
        of nettle, to cure internal worms in humans, internal discomfort in
        horses, and even as a treatment for senility: "And, a person who is
        unwillingly forgetful should pound stinging nettle to a juice, and add a
        bit of olive oil. When he goes to bed, he should thoroughly anoint his
        chest and temples with it. If he does this often, forgetfulness will
        diminish."

        Nowadays, it's increasingly possible to buy hemp cloth and hempseed oil,
        though hempseed oil for consumption may or may not be available in the
        U.S. Nettlecloth is not so easy to get, but ramie, a cloth made from
        the fibers of an Asian nettle (Boehmeria nivea), is a reasonable
        substitute. Books like Eugene Gibbons' Stalking the Healthful Herbs will
        help you find nettle in the wild, either for consumption or textiles.
        Have fun expanding your knowledge of these plants!

        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

        Copyright, 2002-2003 Jennifer A Heise, All rights reserved

        --
        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
        "History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it screams
        'Why don't you ever listen to me?' and lets fly with a club."
      • Lynda Fjellman
        ... Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not need to be cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have several clumps of them if anyone wants
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
          >From various references, one suspects that nettle may have been
          >primarily gathered from the wild rather than cultivated.

          Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not need to be
          cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have several clumps of
          them if anyone wants some.
          Ilaria
          At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
        • Kataryna Dragonweaver
          Hi, From genetic studies hemp originated in China as an oil-seed crop... the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC (drug) variety is bred in Southern
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
            Hi,
            From genetic studies hemp originated in China as an oil-seed crop...
            the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC (drug) variety is
            bred in Southern Asia. See "Advances in Hemp Research By Paolo
            Ranalli" pages 7 to 12. By th 1500's there is s difference between the
            fibre, oil, and drug varieties. My personal opinion (based on nothing
            other then lots of reading and gut feeling) is that the fibre races
            that were grown in colder climates needed to produce less insecticidal
            proteins (which is one of the reasons hemp produces THC in the first
            place) - so over time the plants may loose the ability to produce high
            amounts of THC. Also, when choosing plants with good fibre content
            plants that grow straight and not branched are perfered, therefore
            (because the buds are at the tops of the branches) significantly less
            buds are produced.
            Between these two factors, in a few generations of plants you may
            inadvertantly get less THC production just by choosing those plants
            that gave good fibre. We know that humans have been involved in
            actively selecting "the best plant" for their crops since before
            recorded history... so this could be a reason accounts fall silent
            about pot smoking in Europe rather quickly.
            Also, IIRC, drug production is indirectly linked to the heat and
            moisture that the hemp is grown in... hotter and moister = more THC in
            fibre varieties. So, that could be another reason the nothern climate
            didn't stimulate high amounts of psychoactive compounds.

            I've also stumbled across a mention of a hungarian tax of hemp on
            villages/farms (see excerpt below). I suspect this would be used for
            fabric (sail cloth, tent cloth, and occasionally clothing).
            -Kataryna
            An overview of Hemp production in Hungary, please keep
            in mind this is a sciences book about modern fiber
            crop practices and the history sections are a broad
            overview; excerpt copied directly from
            "Bast and other plant fibres", edited by Robert R
            Franck, Woodhead Publishing Ltd., 2005
            Chapter 4 by J. Sponner, L. Toth, S. Cziger, and R.R.
            Franck

            "Part 1
            4.1 Introduction: hemp in Hungary
            Hemp was first mentioned in chronicles of the 12th
            century, after the Hungarian settlement of the
            Carpathian Basin. In 1198 the customs tariff of
            Esztergom enumerates numerates plants including hemp
            and flax. Another record mentions that the pwner of a
            cart carrying hemp or flax had to pay four bundles of
            hemp or flax as duty and according to other records
            dated 1309 a 42 acre hemp field was required for every
            57 acres of land held in villeinage.
            In the Middle Ages hemp processing, spinning and
            weaving were quite common and this work was an
            intrinsic part of the villeins' feudal obligations.
            According to a document dated 1324, of the 17
            industries listed in Hungary, spinning and weaving
            seem to have been most important.
            It is evident that in the life of the Hungarian
            people hemp has a history of a thousand years, and
            knowledge of the growing and processing of hemp was
            used to make harder-wearing fabrics. Hemp served other
            requirements as well and rope, twine, bags,
            tarpaulins, etc., were produced for agricultural and
            other purposes.
            On small farms and later on large estates hemp was
            essential. On the estates the first machines that were
            operated by mobile steam engines replaced manual tools
            and these engines were fuelled by hemp hurds. In this
            way hemp process waste was used to generate energy for
            the machines. Gradually the demand for hemp products
            grew and production increased to satisfy these wider
            markets. Hemp followed the economic and social changes
            of this lengthy period; it was part of the
            industrialization of the country and it formed the
            basis of its textile industry.
            The city of Szeged played and important role in the
            development of the Hungarian hemp industry. With the
            help of its natural waterway, the Tisza, Szeged – an
            extensive stock breeding centre – became one of the
            biggest collecting and distributive markets in the
            southern part of the country. According to Medieval
            sources, agricultural products, livestock and
            industrial products from distant regions were sold at
            large and busy fairs. The city was not only a trading
            centre but also an important staging post for traffic
            to Italy, the Balkans and the East and the traveler of
            the time could find a relatively well-developed guild
            life within its walls. In 1522 the tithe register of
            the Diocese of Bacs lists 291 independent tradesmen,
            two of them being ropemakers. After gradually
            expelling the Turks from the country the fight for
            freedom against the Habsburgs prevented the economy
            from developing and this situation improved only in
            the middle of the 18th century. The prosperity of the
            economy was greatly helped by settled German
            craftsmanship and the guilds of the city flourished.
            The development of shipping on the river Tisza
            (especially transporting wheat and other agricultural
            products) stimulated the shipbuilding industry, heavy
            canvas and rope manufacture. The rope manufacturers of
            Szeged received their first charter of incorporation
            from Maria Theresa on 20 May 1743.
            The processing of hemp and manufacturing was done in
            small guilds that could be found especially in the
            southern cities of the country. At this time `factory
            size' hemp processing did not exist and only in the
            last two decades of the 18th century do we find three
            `factory sized rope-walks'. All three were situated on
            the coast at Fume, in present Croatia.
            The raw material for the numerous little guilds was
            mainly supplied from abroad as the limited production
            of hemp from the small farms was not sufficient to
            satisfy the `hungry' industry's requirements. The
            local authorities in the country became aware of this
            situation and took important steps to develop hemp
            processing; in other words, it became essential that
            hemp processing develop into a manufacturing industry.
            A survey was made in order to establish which areas
            were most suitable for the cultivation of hemp and
            flax and 20 tonnes of high fibre yield seed was
            brought from Italy. Peasants from Bologna, who had
            several decades of experience in the growing and
            processing of hemp, were settled in the southern part
            of the country. In 1865 Count Rezso Chotek founded the
            first hemp factory in Hungary in Futak-Ojvidik (today
            Novi-Sad, in present Yugoslavia). This plant included
            scotching and other primary processing of the hemp.
            Following the establishment of this factory others
            (spinning, weaving, ropewalks, etc.) sprang up like
            mushrooms."

            This chapter goes on for 4 more paragraphs but
            concerns the modernized factory processes.



            -Kataryna
          • Tracy Kremer
            That was fascinating! Thank you, milady. Eluned ... CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
              That was fascinating! Thank you, milady.

              Eluned
              --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
              <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

              > Hi,
              > From genetic studies hemp originated in China as
              > an oil-seed crop...
              > the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC
              > (drug) variety is
              > bred in Southern Asia. See "Advances in Hemp
              > Research By Paolo
              > Ranalli" pages 7 to 12. By th 1500's there is s
              > difference between the
              > fibre, oil, and drug varieties. My personal opinion
              > (based on nothing
              > other then lots of reading and gut feeling) is that
              > the fibre races
              > that were grown in colder climates needed to produce
              > less insecticidal
              > proteins (which is one of the reasons hemp produces
              > THC in the first
              > place) - so over time the plants may loose the
              > ability to produce high
              > amounts of THC. Also, when choosing plants with good
              > fibre content
              > plants that grow straight and not branched are
              > perfered, therefore
              > (because the buds are at the tops of the branches)
              > significantly less
              > buds are produced.
              > Between these two factors, in a few generations of
              > plants you may
              > inadvertantly get less THC production just by
              > choosing those plants
              > that gave good fibre. We know that humans have been
              > involved in
              > actively selecting "the best plant" for their crops
              > since before
              > recorded history... so this could be a reason
              > accounts fall silent
              > about pot smoking in Europe rather quickly.
              > Also, IIRC, drug production is indirectly linked
              > to the heat and
              > moisture that the hemp is grown in... hotter and
              > moister = more THC in
              > fibre varieties. So, that could be another reason
              > the nothern climate
              > didn't stimulate high amounts of psychoactive
              > compounds.
              >
              > I've also stumbled across a mention of a
              > hungarian tax of hemp on
              > villages/farms (see excerpt below). I suspect this
              > would be used for
              > fabric (sail cloth, tent cloth, and occasionally
              > clothing).
              > -Kataryna
              > An overview of Hemp production in Hungary, please
              > keep
              > in mind this is a sciences book about modern fiber
              > crop practices and the history sections are a broad
              > overview; excerpt copied directly from
              > "Bast and other plant fibres", edited by Robert R
              > Franck, Woodhead Publishing Ltd., 2005
              > Chapter 4 by J. Sponner, L. Toth, S. Cziger, and
              > R.R.
              > Franck
              >
              > "Part 1
              > 4.1 Introduction: hemp in Hungary
              > Hemp was first mentioned in chronicles of the 12th
              > century, after the Hungarian settlement of the
              > Carpathian Basin. In 1198 the customs tariff of
              > Esztergom enumerates numerates plants including hemp
              > and flax. Another record mentions that the pwner of
              > a
              > cart carrying hemp or flax had to pay four bundles
              > of
              > hemp or flax as duty and according to other records
              > dated 1309 a 42 acre hemp field was required for
              > every
              > 57 acres of land held in villeinage.
              > In the Middle Ages hemp processing, spinning and
              > weaving were quite common and this work was an
              > intrinsic part of the villeins' feudal obligations.
              > According to a document dated 1324, of the 17
              > industries listed in Hungary, spinning and weaving
              > seem to have been most important.
              > It is evident that in the life of the Hungarian
              > people hemp has a history of a thousand years, and
              > knowledge of the growing and processing of hemp was
              > used to make harder-wearing fabrics. Hemp served
              > other
              > requirements as well and rope, twine, bags,
              > tarpaulins, etc., were produced for agricultural and
              > other purposes.
              > On small farms and later on large estates hemp was
              > essential. On the estates the first machines that
              > were
              > operated by mobile steam engines replaced manual
              > tools
              > and these engines were fuelled by hemp hurds. In
              > this
              > way hemp process waste was used to generate energy
              > for
              > the machines. Gradually the demand for hemp products
              > grew and production increased to satisfy these wider
              > markets. Hemp followed the economic and social
              > changes
              > of this lengthy period; it was part of the
              > industrialization of the country and it formed the
              > basis of its textile industry.
              > The city of Szeged played and important role in the
              > development of the Hungarian hemp industry. With the
              > help of its natural waterway, the Tisza, Szeged – an
              > extensive stock breeding centre – became one of the
              > biggest collecting and distributive markets in the
              > southern part of the country. According to Medieval
              > sources, agricultural products, livestock and
              > industrial products from distant regions were sold
              > at
              > large and busy fairs. The city was not only a
              > trading
              > centre but also an important staging post for
              > traffic
              > to Italy, the Balkans and the East and the traveler
              > of
              > the time could find a relatively well-developed
              > guild
              > life within its walls. In 1522 the tithe register of
              > the Diocese of Bacs lists 291 independent tradesmen,
              > two of them being ropemakers. After gradually
              > expelling the Turks from the country the fight for
              > freedom against the Habsburgs prevented the economy
              > from developing and this situation improved only in
              > the middle of the 18th century. The prosperity of
              > the
              > economy was greatly helped by settled German
              > craftsmanship and the guilds of the city flourished.
              > The development of shipping on the river Tisza
              > (especially transporting wheat and other
              > agricultural
              > products) stimulated the shipbuilding industry,
              > heavy
              > canvas and rope manufacture. The rope manufacturers
              > of
              > Szeged received their first charter of incorporation
              > from Maria Theresa on 20 May 1743.
              > The processing of hemp and manufacturing was done in
              > small guilds that could be found especially in the
              > southern cities of the country. At this time
              > `factory
              > size' hemp processing did not exist and only in the
              > last two decades of the 18th century do we find
              > three
              > `factory sized rope-walks'. All three were situated
              > on
              > the coast at Fume, in present Croatia.
              > The raw material for the numerous little guilds was
              > mainly supplied from abroad as the limited
              > production
              > of hemp from the small farms was not sufficient to
              > satisfy the `hungry' industry's requirements. The
              > local authorities in the country became aware of
              > this
              > situation and took important steps to develop hemp
              > processing; in other words, it became essential that
              > hemp processing develop into a manufacturing
              > industry.
              > A survey was made in order to establish which areas
              > were most suitable for the cultivation of hemp and
              > flax and 20 tonnes of high fibre yield seed was
              > brought from Italy. Peasants from Bologna, who had
              > several decades of experience in the growing and
              > processing of hemp, were settled in the southern
              > part
              > of the country. In 1865 Count Rezso Chotek founded
              > the
              > first hemp factory in Hungary in Futak-Ojvidik
              > (today
              > Novi-Sad, in present Yugoslavia). This plant
              > included
              > scotching and other primary processing of the hemp.
              > Following the establishment of this factory others
              > (spinning, weaving, ropewalks, etc.) sprang up like
              > mushrooms."
              >
              > This chapter goes on for 4 more paragraphs but
              > concerns the modernized factory processes.
              >
              >
              >
              > -Kataryna
              >
              >


              CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

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            • Tracy Kremer
              Some personal names I am considering for my new persona, but which I need to research further; I m posting them for any input you might care to give me.
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                Some personal names I am considering for my new
                persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                posting them for any input you might care to give me.

                Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being that
                other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.

                Malina - "raspberry" in polish

                Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                within period.

                Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name Walenty,
                meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but not
                common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                choice for me.

                I'm also considering "Sopianka".

                Thanks for your time and attention,
                Eluned

                CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                ____________________________________________________________________________________
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              • Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                ... Good luck Eluned! Which are you leaning towards now? -- Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval Servant of His Grace Sir
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                  On 12/6/06, Tracy Kremer <eluned_p@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Some personal names I am considering for my new
                  > persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                  > posting them for any input you might care to give me.
                  >
                  > Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being that
                  > other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                  > Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                  > glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.
                  >
                  > Malina - "raspberry" in polish
                  >
                  > Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                  > meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                  > within period.
                  >
                  > Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name Walenty,
                  > meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                  > given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but not
                  > common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                  > choice for me.
                  >
                  > I'm also considering "Sopianka".
                  >
                  > Thanks for your time and attention,
                  > Eluned
                  >
                  > CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and
                  > semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!
                  >
                  > COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________________
                  > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
                  > now.
                  >
                  >

                  Good luck Eluned!

                  Which are you leaning towards now?

                  --
                  Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                  Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval
                  Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master Mordok Rostovskogo
                  SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org
                  We have enough youth - how about a fountain of smart?


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tracy Kremer
                  ... Walentyna, maybe; Malina and Nadzieja also appeal. I hate to narrow my choices before I know if I can have any one of these. I also need to check on the
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                    > Good luck Eluned!
                    >
                    > Which are you leaning towards now?
                    >
                    > --
                    > Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski


                    Walentyna, maybe; Malina and Nadzieja also appeal. I
                    hate to narrow my choices before I know if I can have
                    any one of these. I also need to check on the
                    pronunciatioins.

                    --- Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski <panzygmunt@...>
                    wrote:

                    > On 12/6/06, Tracy Kremer <eluned_p@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Some personal names I am considering for my new
                    > > persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                    > > posting them for any input you might care to give
                    > me.
                    > >
                    > > Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being
                    > that
                    > > other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                    > > Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                    > > glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.
                    > >
                    > > Malina - "raspberry" in polish
                    > >
                    > > Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                    > > meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                    > > within period.
                    > >
                    > > Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name
                    > Walenty,
                    > > meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                    > > given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but
                    > not
                    > > common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                    > > choice for me.
                    > >
                    > > I'm also considering "Sopianka".
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for your time and attention,
                    > > Eluned
                    > >
                    > > CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age,
                    > and lovers of amber and
                    > > semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice
                    > prices, honest!
                    > >
                    > > COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    __________________________________________________________
                    > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                    > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
                    > > now.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > Good luck Eluned!
                    >
                    > Which are you leaning towards now?
                    >
                    > --
                    > Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                    > Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval
                    > Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master
                    > Mordok Rostovskogo
                    > SCA Polish Culture Resource:
                    > http://www.plcommonwealth.org
                    > We have enough youth - how about a fountain of
                    > smart?
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >


                    CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                    COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











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                  • Tracy Kremer
                    Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                      Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and
                      the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles
                      _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes they
                      catch you by surprise. If you meet a stray branch of
                      bramble, you can just stop moving, and usually back it
                      off of you, and neosporin stops the discomfort.

                      Eluned

                      --- Lynda Fjellman <lfjellman@...> wrote:

                      > >From various references, one suspects that nettle
                      > may have been
                      > >primarily gathered from the wild rather than
                      > cultivated.
                      >
                      > Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not
                      > need to be
                      > cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have
                      > several clumps of
                      > them if anyone wants some.
                      > Ilaria
                      > At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
                      >
                      >


                      CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                      COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











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                    • Lynda Fjellman
                      Not around here. Stray branches come in howling packs and I get infections from the scratches. Apparently many folks do. The fruit is good though. Backing
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 7, 2006
                        Not around here. Stray branches come in howling packs and I get
                        infections from the scratches. Apparently many folks do. The fruit is
                        good though. Backing away just leaves bigger scratches and sometimes
                        the thorns behind.
                        Do you have "Himalaya" blackberries? If not, you just do *not* know
                        what you are missing in the way of nuisance blackberries.

                        You can eat nettles, they make a good cooked green. (just the newer
                        tops, cook like spinach) You do have to wear gloves to pick them
                        though.
                        Ilaria


                        Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and
                        the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles
                        _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes they
                        catch you by surprise. If you meet a stray branch of
                        bramble, you can just stop moving, and usually back it
                        off of you, and neosporin stops the discomfort.

                        Eluned

                        --- Lynda Fjellman <lfjellman@...> wrote:

                        > >From various references, one suspects that nettle
                        > may have been
                        > >primarily gathered from the wild rather than
                        > cultivated.
                        >
                        > Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not
                        > need to be
                        > cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have
                        > several clumps of
                        > them if anyone wants some.
                        > Ilaria
                        > At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
                        >
                        >


                        CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and
                        lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice
                        prices, honest!

                        COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        ____________
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                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Ilijana Krakowska
                        Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just mught suffer from chafing
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 14, 2006
                          Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just mught suffer from chafing if they do any dancing at anytime of year. I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.

                          I do not sell this product. I do not have any interest in this product other than sharing its efficacy.


                          Ilijana Krakowska
                          Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.

                          ---------------------------------
                          Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • milica_od_tuzla
                          I appreciate this very much. I live in the Kingdom of Trimaris were it is hot 99% of the time. I m going to try this out. Thank you very much. ... discussion
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                            I appreciate this very much. I live in the Kingdom of Trimaris were
                            it is hot 99% of the time. I'm going to try this out. Thank you very
                            much.


                            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Ilijana Krakowska <ilijanakrakowska@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy
                            discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just
                            mught suffer from chafing if they do any dancing at anytime of year.
                            I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store
                            called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a
                            deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back
                            to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.
                            >
                            > I do not sell this product. I do not have any interest in this
                            product other than sharing its efficacy.
                            >
                            >
                            > Ilijana Krakowska
                            > Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                            From left field... When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                              From left field...

                              When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                              work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?

                              Thanks!
                              - N

                              --
                              Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                              Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                            • L.M. Kies
                              ... You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                >------- Original Message -------
                                > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.
                                >

                                You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.

                                Sofya


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Janin Wise
                                So roll-on anti-perspirant would work to stop inner thigh chafing? Because if it s true, and cheaper, it s still a great tip (: --Cigan ... From: L.M. Kies
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                  So roll-on anti-perspirant would work to stop inner thigh chafing? Because if it's true, and cheaper, it's still a great tip (:

                                  --Cigan

                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: L.M. Kies <lkies@...>
                                  To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:39:18 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [sig] Chafing under your garb















                                  >------- Original Message -------

                                  > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.

                                  >



                                  You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.



                                  Sofya



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                                • L.M. Kies
                                  Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya. ... I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                    Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.


                                    >------- Original Message -------
                                    >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                                    >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                    >

                                    I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.

                                    http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos30.jpg
                                    http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html


                                    K tvoim uslugam,

                                    Sofya

                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                    Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                    http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                    "Si no necare, sana."
                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • magdalenag56
                                    I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn t want anyone to pay more for it than it s worth. ...
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                      I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant
                                      under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it
                                      than it's worth.
                                      >
                                      > Sofya

                                      I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for chafing at
                                      Pennsic. So do check that out.

                                      Just my dwa zlota
                                      Magdalena Gdanska
                                    • Jennifer Nelson Kemp
                                      I guess I m old fashioned or something but I either wear bloomers (not that I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at pennsic or I wear biker
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                        I guess I'm old fashioned or something but I either wear bloomers (not that
                                        I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at pennsic or I wear
                                        biker shorts to help with that. Powders or creams tend to make me break out
                                        worse...though there was an herbalist at Pennsic that was selling chaffing
                                        powder to help with that, though I don't know the ingredients.

                                        Posadnitsa Ianuk


                                        On 12/16/06, magdalenag56 <magdalenag56@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant
                                        > under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it
                                        > than it's worth.
                                        > >
                                        > > Sofya
                                        >
                                        > I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for chafing at
                                        > Pennsic. So do check that out.
                                        >
                                        > Just my dwa zlota
                                        > Magdalena Gdanska
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • aleannain@insightbb.com
                                        I use simple baby powder and it seems to help me...whether I be fighting or in garb...it helps with me not chafing. Anushka ... From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                          I use simple baby powder and it seems to help me...whether I be fighting or in garb...it helps with me not chafing.

                                          Anushka

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp <lady.ianuk@...>
                                          Date: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:02
                                          Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Chafing under your garb
                                          To: sig@yahoogroups.com

                                          > I guess I'm old fashioned or something but I either wear
                                          > bloomers (not that
                                          > I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at
                                          > pennsic or I wear
                                          > biker shorts to help with that. Powders or creams tend to
                                          > make me break out
                                          > worse...though there was an herbalist at Pennsic that was
                                          > selling chaffing
                                          > powder to help with that, though I don't know the ingredients.
                                          >
                                          > Posadnitsa Ianuk
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 12/16/06, magdalenag56 <magdalenag56@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just
                                          > anti-perspirant
                                          > > under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more
                                          > for it
                                          > > than it's worth.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Sofya
                                          > >
                                          > > I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for
                                          > chafing at
                                          > > Pennsic. So do check that out.
                                          > >
                                          > > Just my dwa zlota
                                          > > Magdalena Gdanska
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Ilijana Krakowska
                                          According to the label, the ingredients are Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E) I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Dec 17, 2006
                                            According to the label, the ingredients are "Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E)"
                                            I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the Vitamin E and the Aloe Vera in there to help reduce the irritation.

                                            As far as anti-perspriants go, I have used them to prevent the sweat from rolling down my thighs, but the brand I use didn't do anthing to prevent chafing as far as I could tell.

                                            "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

                                            >------- Original Message -------
                                            > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. [snip]

                                            [snip] I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.

                                            Sofya




                                            Ilijana Krakowska
                                            Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.
                                            __________________________________________________
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                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • L.M. Kies
                                            ... I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Dec 17, 2006
                                              >------- Original Message -------
                                              >
                                              >According to the label, the ingredients are "Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E)"
                                              I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the Vitamin E and the Aloe Vera in there to help reduce the irritation.
                                              >
                                              As far as anti-perspriants go, I have used them to prevent the sweat from rolling down my thighs, but the brand I use didn't do anthing to prevent chafing as far as I could tell.
                                              >

                                              I'm sure it depends on the kind of anti-perspirant - mine would work quite nice for chafing - but then it's "inactive ingredients" include talc, dimethicone, and hydrogenated castor oil, among others. (Aluminum zirconium trichlorohydrex etc. is the active "anti-perspirant" ingredient.) I've used some roll-ons in the past that went on sticky and seemed to stay sticky - bad for chaffing.

                                              Since most anti-perspirants are not sealed in the store, put a little on your fingers and see how "slippery" it feels, or look for the "slippery" ingredients.

                                              Oh, and anti-gas products contain simethicone, not dimethicone. Hmm... dimethicone is an alternative treatment for head lice. Interesting. I guess it helps comb out the nits. ;)

                                              Sofya



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Rick Orli
                                              One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing - don t remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a garmet that a tailor
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Dec 20, 2006
                                                One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing -
                                                don't remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a
                                                garmet that a tailor could commit is if the hem in the front is
                                                longer than the hem in the back. -Rick
                                                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >------- Original Message -------
                                                > >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across
                                                so when
                                                > >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see
                                                below.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos3
                                                0.jpg
                                                > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > K tvoim uslugam,
                                                >
                                                > Sofya
                                                >
                                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                -
                                                > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                > "Si no necare, sana."
                                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                -
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                              • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                Thanks! ... -- Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                  Thanks!

                                                  On Wed, December 20, 2006 5:56 pm, Rick Orli wrote:
                                                  > One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing -
                                                  > don't remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a
                                                  > garmet that a tailor could commit is if the hem in the front is
                                                  > longer than the hem in the back. -Rick
                                                  > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> >------- Original Message -------
                                                  >> >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across
                                                  > so when
                                                  >> >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                  >> >
                                                  >>
                                                  >> I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see
                                                  > below.
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos3
                                                  > 0.jpg
                                                  >> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> K tvoim uslugam,
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Sofya
                                                  >>
                                                  >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  > -
                                                  >> Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                  >> Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                  >> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                  >> "Si no necare, sana."
                                                  >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  > -
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  --
                                                  Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                  Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                  Thanks! ... -- Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                    Thanks!

                                                    On Fri, December 15, 2006 9:26 pm, L.M. Kies wrote:
                                                    > Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >>------- Original Message -------
                                                    >>When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                                                    >>work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    > I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.
                                                    >
                                                    > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos30.jpg
                                                    > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > K tvoim uslugam,
                                                    >
                                                    > Sofya
                                                    >
                                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                    > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                    > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                    > "Si no necare, sana."
                                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    --
                                                    Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                    Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                  • Marina Anastasia Ozeroski
                                                    Can anyone direct me to a suitable supplier for period (or period-looking foorwear) for a late period Ukrainian? Thanks Marina
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                      Can anyone direct me to a suitable supplier for period (or
                                                      period-looking foorwear) for a late period Ukrainian?

                                                      Thanks
                                                      Marina
                                                    • Stephanie Ross
                                                      You could try Vika at Ebay - item #190065182643. I bet if you emailed her she might be able to make them according to your specifications if what she s selling
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Dec 26, 2006
                                                        You could try Vika at Ebay - item #190065182643. I bet if you emailed her
                                                        she might be able to make them according to your specifications if what
                                                        she's selling isn't exactly what you're looking for. She has all her wares
                                                        made in Ukraine (which is where she is from and her mom still lives there
                                                        and looks for stuff for her to sell here). She is also rather knowledgeable
                                                        about peasant costume and is very nice to talk with.


                                                        Nadya
                                                        Et si omnes, ego non.
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