Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: linen vs. cotton was[sig] polish garb for men Qs

Expand Messages
  • bphall76@aol.com
    From the research I ve done, flax linen was more common in the southern parts of Russia. Towards the north like Kostroma they were using hemp linen.
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 28, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      From the research I've done, flax linen was more common in the southern
      parts of Russia. Towards the north like Kostroma they were using hemp linen.
      Supposedly, Kostroma was the hemp capitol of the north for quite some time and
      well know for its sail cloth.

      Back to lurking
      Vasilisa Myshkina
      Glymm Mere, An Tir


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tracy Kremer
      Hmmmm - interesting! I had been under the impression that hemp was valued as rope; hadn t realized it was common for sailcloth. Bet it made really strong
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hmmmm - interesting!
        I had been under the impression that hemp was valued
        as rope; hadn't realized it was common for sailcloth.
        Bet it made really strong sails!

        Eluned

        --- bphall76@... wrote:

        > From the research I've done, flax linen was more
        > common in the southern
        > parts of Russia. Towards the north like Kostroma
        > they were using hemp linen.
        > Supposedly, Kostroma was the hemp capitol of the
        > north for quite some time and
        > well know for its sail cloth.
        >
        > Back to lurking
        > Vasilisa Myshkina
        > Glymm Mere, An Tir
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >


        CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

        COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
      • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
        ... here s a slightly updated version of an article on Hemp and Nettle that I wrote for Slovo: Hemp and Nettle: Two Food/Fiber/Medical plants in use in Eastern
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          > Hmmmm - interesting!
          > I had been under the impression that hemp was valued
          > as rope; hadn't realized it was common for sailcloth.
          > Bet it made really strong sails!
          >
          > Eluned
          >

          here's a slightly updated version of an article on Hemp and Nettle that
          I wrote for Slovo:

          Hemp and Nettle:
          Two Food/Fiber/Medical plants in use in Eastern Europe.
          by Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
          Originally published in Slovo, the newsletter of the Slavic Interest
          Group

          Most of us are familiar with flax and its byproducts including linen and
          linseed oil. However, two related plants show up in East and Central
          Europe for similar purposes: hemp (Cannabis sativa) and nettle (Urtica
          dioica). Both hemp and nettle fibers were used to make cloth, as well as
          being used for food and medicine: remember Shakespeare's 'Hempen
          Homespuns' and the story of Seven Swans whose sister had to spin and
          weave them all nettlecloth shirts without speaking, to turn them back
          into humans?

          Generally, Herodotus' description of the Scythians (residents of what
          would become the Crimea) using hemp is considered the first mention of
          hemp in Russia. Apparently the Scythians used hemp in their steam/sauna
          baths: "These tents were made of thick felt, with all cracks carefully
          sealed up. Inside was placed a bowl full of red-hot stones, onto which
          cannabis seeds were thrown. According to Herodotus, the Scythians would
          howl with delight as they breathed in the fumes. Sitting in these tents
          was clearly one of their favorite pasttimes. The reference to seeds of
          in Herodotus and other sources is puzzling, since as any cannnibis
          smoker knows, the seeds are by far the least intoxicating part of the
          plant. But as the flowering heads, the most potent element, also contain
          the seeds, such confusion is understandable..." (P. James and N. Thorpe,
          Ancient Inventions; NY: Ballantine, 1994, p. 342.) [Interestingly, the
          authors of Ancient Inventions claim that this is confirmed by the finds
          of hempseeds and hempseed smoking kits in tombs on the borders of Russia
          and Mongolia-- presumably the assumption is that the flower heads rotted
          but the seeds remained?]

          However, after the dates of this reference, the archaelogical and
          historical records pretty much fall silent about pot smoking. Instead,
          more mundane uses of hemp crop up. (I find it significant that though
          Arabic and Roman authorities-- i.e. Galen-- mention medicinal
          pot-smoking, it's seldom mentioned in Northern European medieval and
          renaissance sources. Perhaps their hemp was closer to modern industrial
          hemp than the Arabic kind-- apparently the cultivars are significantly
          different.)

          Hemp, as a fiber plant, appears to have spread from the mediterranean
          through the Roman area and also perhaps from the East. The Scythians
          died out before the fall of Rome, and connections between them and
          modern Slavs are considered tenuous by most historians I've read. (An
          excellent article on hemp, nettle, and other fibers such as bast appears
          in World Wide Words, "Fibres from the Earth: Names for some natural
          materials," by Michael Quinion:
          http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/fibres.htm).

          R.J. Forbes, Studies in Ancient Technology, vol IV (EJ Brill, 1987,
          copyright 1956/1964), says, on page 60: "The plant [hemp] came to
          prehistoric Europe from Southern Russia, as is also evident from the
          etymology of the terms for hemp in Indo-Germanic Languages. At
          Wilmersdorf fruit and seeds of hemp were found but no fibres. It may
          have been smoked in the pipes found in the Celtic area of Western
          Switzerland. The Goths brought the plant from Western Russia in the
          second and third century AD and only then did the use of the fibres in
          central Europe start. The Slavonic migrations of the ninth century gave
          a new impetus to its cultivation which begins to displace flax in
          certain regions. It was also used by the Vikings but is still regarded
          with antipathy in medieval western Europe."

          Both hemp and flax were major agricultural crops in Russia in period.
          Hemp was grown in the south, flax in the north. According to the
          Encyclopedia Britannica, one of the major exports of the Muscovy Company
          (founded in the second half of the 16th century) was hemp.

          According to many textile sources, the archaelogical record of hemp and
          nettle fabric is confused by the fact that archaelogists, not being able
          to tell hemp, nettle and flax cloth apart without chemical testing, use
          the term 'linen' to refer to any fabric of spun and woven vegetable
          fibers. (Apparently, however, Czech archaelogists call all such fabrics
          'hemp', according to Alastair Miller.) Linen is not distinguishable from
          hemp or nettle cloth in paintings, either.

          Both hemp and nettle have been used to make fabric since prehistoric
          times, as alternatives to flax, and processed similarly to flax. Hemp,
          with fibers up to 12 feet long, produces a stronger thread than flax;
          nettle produces a somewhat "finer and silkier" fabric than flax. (E.W.
          Barber, Women's Work: the first 20,000 Years: Women, cloth and society
          in early times. W.W. Norton, 1994).

          For near-period English instructions on growing, harvesting and
          processing hemp, see Gervase Markham's English Housewife, 1615. Hemp can
          be either wet retted, by immersion in water such as a pond or stream, or
          dew retted, by laying in the fields. Once "the fiber bundles appear
          white, separate from the woody core, and divide easily into individual,
          finer fibers for their full length," retting is complete, and the stems
          are dried, then broken with a 'breaker'. The fibers are separated using
          processes known as 'scutching' (beating), then hanckled (combed) for
          spinning. (Advances in Hemp Research)

          The Muscovy Company (1555-1649) exported hemp (probably for rope rather
          than cloth) from Russia during their period of operation (Encyclopedia
          Britannica). Hemp and nettle cloth have reportedly been found among the
          clothing in the Scandinavian graves at Birka (Thora Sharptooth, quoted
          in Stefan's Florilegium:
          http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/hemp-cloth-msg.html)

          Hemp seeds and a fragment of hemp cloth were found the excavations of
          the 12th century levels of Gniezno, according to M. Polcyn,
          "Archaeobotanical Evidence for Food Plants in the Poland of the Piasts
          (10th-13th Centuries AD)", Biological Journal of Scotland, vol 46, no 4,
          p 533-537: "In archaeological sites hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) has been
          found as uncharred achenes. In the early Middle Ages hemp became an
          important technological plant used in the production of thick cloth.
          Fragments of such cloth have been discovered in Gniezno." (p. 535)
          Sophie Knab (Polish Herbs, Flowers & Folk Medicine, Hippocrene Books,
          1995), says of Hemp: ". . . widely cultivated in Poland for its oil and
          fibers. The fibers of hemp were retted, dried and broken on a flax
          brake-- similar to the process used for flax. The thick inner fibers
          were spun on the spinning wheel and then designated for making sacking
          or very strong thread. They were often plied together to make rope."
          Nettle cloth, says Knab, was used in Poland from the 12th century
          onward; "Nettle thread was used in Poland from ancient times up until
          the 17th century when it was replaced by silk." (It also had
          superstitious uses: "Slavic people have attributed magical properties to
          [nettle] since ancient times," using it to defend against demons,
          disperse storms and protect against lightning as well.)

          At least in western Europe, hemp appears to have often been grown in
          small plots and cultivated with garden tools rather than field equipment
          ( Medieval farming and technology : the impact of agricultural change in
          northwest Europe, edited by G. Astill and J. Langdon, New York : Brill,
          1997.). From various references, one suspects that nettle may have been
          primarily gathered from the wild rather than cultivated.

          The Hemp Museum's history page
          (http://hempmuseum.org/SUBROOMS/HEMP%20TEXTILE%20HISTORY.htm) quotes a
          number of statements from The Book of Fine Linen, by Françoise de
          Bonneville (Paris: Flammarion , 1994):

          "Starting around 1322...The finest sheets were of linen, most were
          of hemp, and the poorest woven from tow, scrap hemp, or flax combings. .
          . up to the end of the seventeenth century, sheets were generally made
          from linen or hemp. Historians, citing the fact that the founding of the
          hemp-weavers guild long predated that of the linen-weavers, believe that
          hemp was far more common than linen until the late fourteenth century."

          While hemp can be harvested for either the fiber or the seeds, it
          appears that hemp for fiber needs to be harvested before it goes to
          seed; so different plots would be alloted for fiber production than for
          seed. Advances in Hemp Research (edited by Paolo Ranalli, New York :
          Food Products Press, 1999) says: "The centuries-old method of hemp
          textile production involves . . . Harvesting after flowering but before
          the seeds set, when the stems are whitening at the base and the leaves
          are starting to drop. The fiber content is reduced and becomes coarser
          toward seed formation. Where it is desired to obtain fiber and seed the
          male plants are first collected by hand pulling, and the female plants
          are left to enable the seeds to ripen."

          Magdalena of Vratislavia noted on the Slavic Interest Group list that:

          In "POLONIA SIVE DE SITU, POPULIS, MORIBUS, MAGISTRATIBUS ET
          REPUBLICA REGNI
          POLONICI LIBRI DUO" by Marcin Kromer , first time printed in 1575,
          then 1578 etc. Book one: subtitle: occupations of woman: "Noble ladies
          and maids are taking care of wool, linen and hem..." (in my
          translations)

          Hemp seed oil, obtained by crushing, was a major part of Polish, Russian
          and other Eastern European countries. Hempseed and poppyseed oils were
          necessary for cooking when fast-day restrictions forbade the use of
          animal fats in cooking. In Russia, say Smith and Christian (Bread and
          Salt: A social and economic history of food and drink in Russia. NY:
          Cambridge University Press, 1984), "Hemp and flax . . . were used in
          dishes with peas, for instance, or gave oil which was either an element
          in various dishes or the medium in which they were cooked." (p. 5) The
          Domostroi advises that stores of hempseed and hempseed oil should be
          kept in the house; the post period menus therein include several
          varieties of hempseed cakes, as well as mentions of hempseed oil.

          Hempseed was also stewed into a sort of porridge, popular in Poland.
          According to Dembinska (Food and Drink in Medieval Poland, University of
          PA Press, 1999), hempseed porridge/soup appears to have been served in
          monasteries, garrisons and to the poor; it's unclear whether the
          hempseed oil was extracted first. Though no Eastern European recipes for
          hempseed porridge survive, there is a hempseed porridge recipe in the
          Italian heath handbook by Platina, and the Underground Cooks Collective
          have published a redaction of the recipe on the SCA-Cooks list, and it
          is included in the Florilegium file on Hemp:
          http://www.florilegium.org/files/PLANTS/hemp-msg.html

          The 16th century Polish herbalist Syrenniusz (via Knab) mentions nettle
          cooked with snails, and Lang (George Lang's Cuisine of Hungary) mentions
          the same dish in Hungary. Syrenniusz suggested it for gas and stomach
          cleansing. Smith & Christian also cite nettle, along with sorrel,
          goose-foot and ground-elder as plants that were probably harvested and
          consumed locally in Russia (p.10) .

          Both nettle and hemp were recommended by physicians as treatments.
          Zevin (A Russian Herbal: Traditional Remedies for Health and Healing,
          Healing Arts Press, 1997) notes ". . . during the seventeenth century
          physician's primary interest in nettle centered around the treatment of
          wounds. One Russian herbal of that period, (known simply as The Herbal
          Book) describes the use of nettle: 'we chew raw nettle, mash it and
          apply it to fresh wounds, and so we clean and heal the wounds.' For old,
          infected wounds, the practitioner was advised to crush both the nettle
          leaves and seeds, and add salt: 'Apply to old infected wounds and they
          will get the dead tissue out and heal the wounds.'" (p. 106)

          Hildegarde of Bingen in her treatise on Physic (translated by Patricia
          Throop, Healing Arts Press, 1998) discussed not only the humeric
          properties of hempseed but the use of hemp cloth as a bandage:

          "Hemp is hot, and it grows where the air is neither very hot nor
          very cold, and its nature is similar. Its seed is salubrious, and good
          as food for healthy people. It is gentle and profitable to the stomach,
          taking away a bit of its mucus. It is easy to digest, diminishes bad
          humors, and fortifies good humors. Nevertheless, if one who is weak in
          the head, and has a vacant brain, eats hemp, it easily afflicts his
          head. It does not harm one who has a healthy head and full brain. If one
          is very ill, it even afflicts his stomach a bit. Eating it does not hurt
          one who is moderately ill.
          [Let one who was a cold stomach cook hemp in water and, when the
          water has been squeezed out, wrap it in a small cloth, and frequently
          place it, warm, on his stomach. This strengthens and renews that area.
          Also, a cloth made from hemp is good for binding ulcers and wounds,
          since the heat in it has been tempered.]"

          Hildegarde also recommended eating the young shoots of nettle as a tonic
          (as American modern and colonial herbalists suggest), "Nettle is very
          hot in its own way. It is not at all good eaten raw, because of its
          harshness. But, when it newly sprouts from the ground, it is good when
          cooked, as food for a human. It purges his stomach and takes mucus away
          from it. Any kind of nettle does this." She also suggested preparations
          of nettle, to cure internal worms in humans, internal discomfort in
          horses, and even as a treatment for senility: "And, a person who is
          unwillingly forgetful should pound stinging nettle to a juice, and add a
          bit of olive oil. When he goes to bed, he should thoroughly anoint his
          chest and temples with it. If he does this often, forgetfulness will
          diminish."

          Nowadays, it's increasingly possible to buy hemp cloth and hempseed oil,
          though hempseed oil for consumption may or may not be available in the
          U.S. Nettlecloth is not so easy to get, but ramie, a cloth made from
          the fibers of an Asian nettle (Boehmeria nivea), is a reasonable
          substitute. Books like Eugene Gibbons' Stalking the Healthful Herbs will
          help you find nettle in the wild, either for consumption or textiles.
          Have fun expanding your knowledge of these plants!

          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

          Copyright, 2002-2003 Jennifer A Heise, All rights reserved

          --
          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
          "History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it screams
          'Why don't you ever listen to me?' and lets fly with a club."
        • Lynda Fjellman
          ... Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not need to be cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have several clumps of them if anyone wants
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            >From various references, one suspects that nettle may have been
            >primarily gathered from the wild rather than cultivated.

            Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not need to be
            cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have several clumps of
            them if anyone wants some.
            Ilaria
            At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
          • Kataryna Dragonweaver
            Hi, From genetic studies hemp originated in China as an oil-seed crop... the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC (drug) variety is bred in Southern
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi,
              From genetic studies hemp originated in China as an oil-seed crop...
              the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC (drug) variety is
              bred in Southern Asia. See "Advances in Hemp Research By Paolo
              Ranalli" pages 7 to 12. By th 1500's there is s difference between the
              fibre, oil, and drug varieties. My personal opinion (based on nothing
              other then lots of reading and gut feeling) is that the fibre races
              that were grown in colder climates needed to produce less insecticidal
              proteins (which is one of the reasons hemp produces THC in the first
              place) - so over time the plants may loose the ability to produce high
              amounts of THC. Also, when choosing plants with good fibre content
              plants that grow straight and not branched are perfered, therefore
              (because the buds are at the tops of the branches) significantly less
              buds are produced.
              Between these two factors, in a few generations of plants you may
              inadvertantly get less THC production just by choosing those plants
              that gave good fibre. We know that humans have been involved in
              actively selecting "the best plant" for their crops since before
              recorded history... so this could be a reason accounts fall silent
              about pot smoking in Europe rather quickly.
              Also, IIRC, drug production is indirectly linked to the heat and
              moisture that the hemp is grown in... hotter and moister = more THC in
              fibre varieties. So, that could be another reason the nothern climate
              didn't stimulate high amounts of psychoactive compounds.

              I've also stumbled across a mention of a hungarian tax of hemp on
              villages/farms (see excerpt below). I suspect this would be used for
              fabric (sail cloth, tent cloth, and occasionally clothing).
              -Kataryna
              An overview of Hemp production in Hungary, please keep
              in mind this is a sciences book about modern fiber
              crop practices and the history sections are a broad
              overview; excerpt copied directly from
              "Bast and other plant fibres", edited by Robert R
              Franck, Woodhead Publishing Ltd., 2005
              Chapter 4 by J. Sponner, L. Toth, S. Cziger, and R.R.
              Franck

              "Part 1
              4.1 Introduction: hemp in Hungary
              Hemp was first mentioned in chronicles of the 12th
              century, after the Hungarian settlement of the
              Carpathian Basin. In 1198 the customs tariff of
              Esztergom enumerates numerates plants including hemp
              and flax. Another record mentions that the pwner of a
              cart carrying hemp or flax had to pay four bundles of
              hemp or flax as duty and according to other records
              dated 1309 a 42 acre hemp field was required for every
              57 acres of land held in villeinage.
              In the Middle Ages hemp processing, spinning and
              weaving were quite common and this work was an
              intrinsic part of the villeins' feudal obligations.
              According to a document dated 1324, of the 17
              industries listed in Hungary, spinning and weaving
              seem to have been most important.
              It is evident that in the life of the Hungarian
              people hemp has a history of a thousand years, and
              knowledge of the growing and processing of hemp was
              used to make harder-wearing fabrics. Hemp served other
              requirements as well and rope, twine, bags,
              tarpaulins, etc., were produced for agricultural and
              other purposes.
              On small farms and later on large estates hemp was
              essential. On the estates the first machines that were
              operated by mobile steam engines replaced manual tools
              and these engines were fuelled by hemp hurds. In this
              way hemp process waste was used to generate energy for
              the machines. Gradually the demand for hemp products
              grew and production increased to satisfy these wider
              markets. Hemp followed the economic and social changes
              of this lengthy period; it was part of the
              industrialization of the country and it formed the
              basis of its textile industry.
              The city of Szeged played and important role in the
              development of the Hungarian hemp industry. With the
              help of its natural waterway, the Tisza, Szeged – an
              extensive stock breeding centre – became one of the
              biggest collecting and distributive markets in the
              southern part of the country. According to Medieval
              sources, agricultural products, livestock and
              industrial products from distant regions were sold at
              large and busy fairs. The city was not only a trading
              centre but also an important staging post for traffic
              to Italy, the Balkans and the East and the traveler of
              the time could find a relatively well-developed guild
              life within its walls. In 1522 the tithe register of
              the Diocese of Bacs lists 291 independent tradesmen,
              two of them being ropemakers. After gradually
              expelling the Turks from the country the fight for
              freedom against the Habsburgs prevented the economy
              from developing and this situation improved only in
              the middle of the 18th century. The prosperity of the
              economy was greatly helped by settled German
              craftsmanship and the guilds of the city flourished.
              The development of shipping on the river Tisza
              (especially transporting wheat and other agricultural
              products) stimulated the shipbuilding industry, heavy
              canvas and rope manufacture. The rope manufacturers of
              Szeged received their first charter of incorporation
              from Maria Theresa on 20 May 1743.
              The processing of hemp and manufacturing was done in
              small guilds that could be found especially in the
              southern cities of the country. At this time `factory
              size' hemp processing did not exist and only in the
              last two decades of the 18th century do we find three
              `factory sized rope-walks'. All three were situated on
              the coast at Fume, in present Croatia.
              The raw material for the numerous little guilds was
              mainly supplied from abroad as the limited production
              of hemp from the small farms was not sufficient to
              satisfy the `hungry' industry's requirements. The
              local authorities in the country became aware of this
              situation and took important steps to develop hemp
              processing; in other words, it became essential that
              hemp processing develop into a manufacturing industry.
              A survey was made in order to establish which areas
              were most suitable for the cultivation of hemp and
              flax and 20 tonnes of high fibre yield seed was
              brought from Italy. Peasants from Bologna, who had
              several decades of experience in the growing and
              processing of hemp, were settled in the southern part
              of the country. In 1865 Count Rezso Chotek founded the
              first hemp factory in Hungary in Futak-Ojvidik (today
              Novi-Sad, in present Yugoslavia). This plant included
              scotching and other primary processing of the hemp.
              Following the establishment of this factory others
              (spinning, weaving, ropewalks, etc.) sprang up like
              mushrooms."

              This chapter goes on for 4 more paragraphs but
              concerns the modernized factory processes.



              -Kataryna
            • Tracy Kremer
              That was fascinating! Thank you, milady. Eluned ... CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                That was fascinating! Thank you, milady.

                Eluned
                --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
                <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

                > Hi,
                > From genetic studies hemp originated in China as
                > an oil-seed crop...
                > the fibre crop is bred in Europe, and the high THC
                > (drug) variety is
                > bred in Southern Asia. See "Advances in Hemp
                > Research By Paolo
                > Ranalli" pages 7 to 12. By th 1500's there is s
                > difference between the
                > fibre, oil, and drug varieties. My personal opinion
                > (based on nothing
                > other then lots of reading and gut feeling) is that
                > the fibre races
                > that were grown in colder climates needed to produce
                > less insecticidal
                > proteins (which is one of the reasons hemp produces
                > THC in the first
                > place) - so over time the plants may loose the
                > ability to produce high
                > amounts of THC. Also, when choosing plants with good
                > fibre content
                > plants that grow straight and not branched are
                > perfered, therefore
                > (because the buds are at the tops of the branches)
                > significantly less
                > buds are produced.
                > Between these two factors, in a few generations of
                > plants you may
                > inadvertantly get less THC production just by
                > choosing those plants
                > that gave good fibre. We know that humans have been
                > involved in
                > actively selecting "the best plant" for their crops
                > since before
                > recorded history... so this could be a reason
                > accounts fall silent
                > about pot smoking in Europe rather quickly.
                > Also, IIRC, drug production is indirectly linked
                > to the heat and
                > moisture that the hemp is grown in... hotter and
                > moister = more THC in
                > fibre varieties. So, that could be another reason
                > the nothern climate
                > didn't stimulate high amounts of psychoactive
                > compounds.
                >
                > I've also stumbled across a mention of a
                > hungarian tax of hemp on
                > villages/farms (see excerpt below). I suspect this
                > would be used for
                > fabric (sail cloth, tent cloth, and occasionally
                > clothing).
                > -Kataryna
                > An overview of Hemp production in Hungary, please
                > keep
                > in mind this is a sciences book about modern fiber
                > crop practices and the history sections are a broad
                > overview; excerpt copied directly from
                > "Bast and other plant fibres", edited by Robert R
                > Franck, Woodhead Publishing Ltd., 2005
                > Chapter 4 by J. Sponner, L. Toth, S. Cziger, and
                > R.R.
                > Franck
                >
                > "Part 1
                > 4.1 Introduction: hemp in Hungary
                > Hemp was first mentioned in chronicles of the 12th
                > century, after the Hungarian settlement of the
                > Carpathian Basin. In 1198 the customs tariff of
                > Esztergom enumerates numerates plants including hemp
                > and flax. Another record mentions that the pwner of
                > a
                > cart carrying hemp or flax had to pay four bundles
                > of
                > hemp or flax as duty and according to other records
                > dated 1309 a 42 acre hemp field was required for
                > every
                > 57 acres of land held in villeinage.
                > In the Middle Ages hemp processing, spinning and
                > weaving were quite common and this work was an
                > intrinsic part of the villeins' feudal obligations.
                > According to a document dated 1324, of the 17
                > industries listed in Hungary, spinning and weaving
                > seem to have been most important.
                > It is evident that in the life of the Hungarian
                > people hemp has a history of a thousand years, and
                > knowledge of the growing and processing of hemp was
                > used to make harder-wearing fabrics. Hemp served
                > other
                > requirements as well and rope, twine, bags,
                > tarpaulins, etc., were produced for agricultural and
                > other purposes.
                > On small farms and later on large estates hemp was
                > essential. On the estates the first machines that
                > were
                > operated by mobile steam engines replaced manual
                > tools
                > and these engines were fuelled by hemp hurds. In
                > this
                > way hemp process waste was used to generate energy
                > for
                > the machines. Gradually the demand for hemp products
                > grew and production increased to satisfy these wider
                > markets. Hemp followed the economic and social
                > changes
                > of this lengthy period; it was part of the
                > industrialization of the country and it formed the
                > basis of its textile industry.
                > The city of Szeged played and important role in the
                > development of the Hungarian hemp industry. With the
                > help of its natural waterway, the Tisza, Szeged – an
                > extensive stock breeding centre – became one of the
                > biggest collecting and distributive markets in the
                > southern part of the country. According to Medieval
                > sources, agricultural products, livestock and
                > industrial products from distant regions were sold
                > at
                > large and busy fairs. The city was not only a
                > trading
                > centre but also an important staging post for
                > traffic
                > to Italy, the Balkans and the East and the traveler
                > of
                > the time could find a relatively well-developed
                > guild
                > life within its walls. In 1522 the tithe register of
                > the Diocese of Bacs lists 291 independent tradesmen,
                > two of them being ropemakers. After gradually
                > expelling the Turks from the country the fight for
                > freedom against the Habsburgs prevented the economy
                > from developing and this situation improved only in
                > the middle of the 18th century. The prosperity of
                > the
                > economy was greatly helped by settled German
                > craftsmanship and the guilds of the city flourished.
                > The development of shipping on the river Tisza
                > (especially transporting wheat and other
                > agricultural
                > products) stimulated the shipbuilding industry,
                > heavy
                > canvas and rope manufacture. The rope manufacturers
                > of
                > Szeged received their first charter of incorporation
                > from Maria Theresa on 20 May 1743.
                > The processing of hemp and manufacturing was done in
                > small guilds that could be found especially in the
                > southern cities of the country. At this time
                > `factory
                > size' hemp processing did not exist and only in the
                > last two decades of the 18th century do we find
                > three
                > `factory sized rope-walks'. All three were situated
                > on
                > the coast at Fume, in present Croatia.
                > The raw material for the numerous little guilds was
                > mainly supplied from abroad as the limited
                > production
                > of hemp from the small farms was not sufficient to
                > satisfy the `hungry' industry's requirements. The
                > local authorities in the country became aware of
                > this
                > situation and took important steps to develop hemp
                > processing; in other words, it became essential that
                > hemp processing develop into a manufacturing
                > industry.
                > A survey was made in order to establish which areas
                > were most suitable for the cultivation of hemp and
                > flax and 20 tonnes of high fibre yield seed was
                > brought from Italy. Peasants from Bologna, who had
                > several decades of experience in the growing and
                > processing of hemp, were settled in the southern
                > part
                > of the country. In 1865 Count Rezso Chotek founded
                > the
                > first hemp factory in Hungary in Futak-Ojvidik
                > (today
                > Novi-Sad, in present Yugoslavia). This plant
                > included
                > scotching and other primary processing of the hemp.
                > Following the establishment of this factory others
                > (spinning, weaving, ropewalks, etc.) sprang up like
                > mushrooms."
                >
                > This chapter goes on for 4 more paragraphs but
                > concerns the modernized factory processes.
                >
                >
                >
                > -Kataryna
                >
                >


                CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
              • Tracy Kremer
                Some personal names I am considering for my new persona, but which I need to research further; I m posting them for any input you might care to give me.
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Some personal names I am considering for my new
                  persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                  posting them for any input you might care to give me.

                  Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being that
                  other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                  Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                  glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.

                  Malina - "raspberry" in polish

                  Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                  meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                  within period.

                  Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name Walenty,
                  meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                  given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but not
                  common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                  choice for me.

                  I'm also considering "Sopianka".

                  Thanks for your time and attention,
                  Eluned

                  CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                  COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
                • Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                  ... Good luck Eluned! Which are you leaning towards now? -- Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval Servant of His Grace Sir
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 12/6/06, Tracy Kremer <eluned_p@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Some personal names I am considering for my new
                    > persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                    > posting them for any input you might care to give me.
                    >
                    > Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being that
                    > other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                    > Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                    > glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.
                    >
                    > Malina - "raspberry" in polish
                    >
                    > Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                    > meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                    > within period.
                    >
                    > Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name Walenty,
                    > meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                    > given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but not
                    > common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                    > choice for me.
                    >
                    > I'm also considering "Sopianka".
                    >
                    > Thanks for your time and attention,
                    > Eluned
                    >
                    > CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and
                    > semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!
                    >
                    > COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________________
                    > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
                    > now.
                    >
                    >

                    Good luck Eluned!

                    Which are you leaning towards now?

                    --
                    Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                    Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval
                    Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master Mordok Rostovskogo
                    SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org
                    We have enough youth - how about a fountain of smart?


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tracy Kremer
                    ... Walentyna, maybe; Malina and Nadzieja also appeal. I hate to narrow my choices before I know if I can have any one of these. I also need to check on the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > Good luck Eluned!
                      >
                      > Which are you leaning towards now?
                      >
                      > --
                      > Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski


                      Walentyna, maybe; Malina and Nadzieja also appeal. I
                      hate to narrow my choices before I know if I can have
                      any one of these. I also need to check on the
                      pronunciatioins.

                      --- Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski <panzygmunt@...>
                      wrote:

                      > On 12/6/06, Tracy Kremer <eluned_p@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Some personal names I am considering for my new
                      > > persona, but which I need to research further; I'm
                      > > posting them for any input you might care to give
                      > me.
                      > >
                      > > Czeslawa - feminization of Czeslaw (the "l" being
                      > that
                      > > other letter entirely in Polish, the crooked t).
                      > > Polish in origin. I like the sound, but "honor and
                      > > glory" is an unlikely choice for a girl-child.
                      > >
                      > > Malina - "raspberry" in polish
                      > >
                      > > Nadzieja - Polish form of Nadezhda, a Russian name
                      > > meaning hope. I like this one, but it may not be
                      > > within period.
                      > >
                      > > Walentyna - feminization of the Polish name
                      > Walenty,
                      > > meaning healthy, strong. Something they might have
                      > > given to a healthy female child. Easy to say, but
                      > not
                      > > common (where I am) in the SCA. This may be a good
                      > > choice for me.
                      > >
                      > > I'm also considering "Sopianka".
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for your time and attention,
                      > > Eluned
                      > >
                      > > CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age,
                      > and lovers of amber and
                      > > semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice
                      > prices, honest!
                      > >
                      > > COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      __________________________________________________________
                      > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
                      > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
                      > > now.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Good luck Eluned!
                      >
                      > Which are you leaning towards now?
                      >
                      > --
                      > Czesc Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
                      > Middle Kingdom, Pentamere, Shire of Talonval
                      > Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master
                      > Mordok Rostovskogo
                      > SCA Polish Culture Resource:
                      > http://www.plcommonwealth.org
                      > We have enough youth - how about a fountain of
                      > smart?
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >


                      CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                      COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                      http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                    • Tracy Kremer
                      Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and
                        the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles
                        _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes they
                        catch you by surprise. If you meet a stray branch of
                        bramble, you can just stop moving, and usually back it
                        off of you, and neosporin stops the discomfort.

                        Eluned

                        --- Lynda Fjellman <lfjellman@...> wrote:

                        > >From various references, one suspects that nettle
                        > may have been
                        > >primarily gathered from the wild rather than
                        > cultivated.
                        >
                        > Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not
                        > need to be
                        > cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have
                        > several clumps of
                        > them if anyone wants some.
                        > Ilaria
                        > At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
                        >
                        >


                        CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice prices, honest!

                        COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Cheap talk?
                        Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                        http://voice.yahoo.com
                      • Lynda Fjellman
                        Not around here. Stray branches come in howling packs and I get infections from the scratches. Apparently many folks do. The fruit is good though. Backing
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 7, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Not around here. Stray branches come in howling packs and I get
                          infections from the scratches. Apparently many folks do. The fruit is
                          good though. Backing away just leaves bigger scratches and sometimes
                          the thorns behind.
                          Do you have "Himalaya" blackberries? If not, you just do *not* know
                          what you are missing in the way of nuisance blackberries.

                          You can eat nettles, they make a good cooked green. (just the newer
                          tops, cook like spinach) You do have to wear gloves to pick them
                          though.
                          Ilaria


                          Personally, I prefer blackberries. You get fruit, and
                          the damage are scratches that you can bandage; nettles
                          _sting_, leaving an itchy rash, and sometimes they
                          catch you by surprise. If you meet a stray branch of
                          bramble, you can just stop moving, and usually back it
                          off of you, and neosporin stops the discomfort.

                          Eluned

                          --- Lynda Fjellman <lfjellman@...> wrote:

                          > >From various references, one suspects that nettle
                          > may have been
                          > >primarily gathered from the wild rather than
                          > cultivated.
                          >
                          > Laughing. Yes, from my experience, nettles do not
                          > need to be
                          > cultivated. They do just fine on their own. I have
                          > several clumps of
                          > them if anyone wants some.
                          > Ilaria
                          > At least they aren't as bad as the blackberries.
                          >
                          >


                          CONTACT ME FOR CUST0M NECKLACES! For SCA, New Age, and
                          lovers of amber and semiprecious stones...silver only, no gold. Nice
                          prices, honest!

                          COMING SOON; ElunedsEmporium.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











                          ________________________________________________________________________
                          ____________
                          Cheap talk?
                          Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                          http://voice.yahoo.com



                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Ilijana Krakowska
                          Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just mught suffer from chafing
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 14, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just mught suffer from chafing if they do any dancing at anytime of year. I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.

                            I do not sell this product. I do not have any interest in this product other than sharing its efficacy.


                            Ilijana Krakowska
                            Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.

                            ---------------------------------
                            Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • milica_od_tuzla
                            I appreciate this very much. I live in the Kingdom of Trimaris were it is hot 99% of the time. I m going to try this out. Thank you very much. ... discussion
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I appreciate this very much. I live in the Kingdom of Trimaris were
                              it is hot 99% of the time. I'm going to try this out. Thank you very
                              much.


                              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Ilijana Krakowska <ilijanakrakowska@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes, I know it is not that time of year, but there was a lengthy
                              discussion about hot weather wear a year or two ago, and people just
                              mught suffer from chafing if they do any dancing at anytime of year.
                              I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store
                              called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a
                              deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back
                              to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.
                              >
                              > I do not sell this product. I do not have any interest in this
                              product other than sharing its efficacy.
                              >
                              >
                              > Ilijana Krakowska
                              > Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                              From left field... When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                From left field...

                                When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                                work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?

                                Thanks!
                                - N

                                --
                                Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                              • L.M. Kies
                                ... You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  >------- Original Message -------
                                  > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.
                                  >

                                  You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.

                                  Sofya


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Janin Wise
                                  So roll-on anti-perspirant would work to stop inner thigh chafing? Because if it s true, and cheaper, it s still a great tip (: --Cigan ... From: L.M. Kies
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    So roll-on anti-perspirant would work to stop inner thigh chafing? Because if it's true, and cheaper, it's still a great tip (:

                                    --Cigan

                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: L.M. Kies <lkies@...>
                                    To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:39:18 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [sig] Chafing under your garb















                                    >------- Original Message -------

                                    > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. It rolls on like a deodorant, and really does work on the inner thighs, when we get back to that steamy weather and those long linen tunics.

                                    >



                                    You might want to take a good hard look at the price and the active ingredients of this Sport Shield. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.



                                    Sofya



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














                                    <!--

                                    #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
                                    #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
                                    #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
                                    #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
                                    #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
                                    #ygrp-text{
                                    font-family:Georgia;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-text p{
                                    margin:0 0 1em 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-tpmsgs{
                                    font-family:Arial;
                                    clear:both;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vitnav{
                                    padding-top:10px;
                                    font-family:Verdana;
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    margin:0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vitnav a{
                                    padding:0 1px;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-actbar{
                                    clear:both;
                                    margin:25px 0;
                                    white-space:nowrap;
                                    color:#666;
                                    text-align:right;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-actbar .left{
                                    float:left;
                                    white-space:nowrap;
                                    }
                                    .bld{font-weight:bold;}
                                    #ygrp-grft{
                                    font-family:Verdana;
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    padding:15px 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-ft{
                                    font-family:verdana;
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    border-top:1px solid #666;
                                    padding:5px 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
                                    padding-bottom:10px;
                                    }

                                    #ygrp-vital{
                                    background-color:#e0ecee;
                                    margin-bottom:20px;
                                    padding:2px 0 8px 8px;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    font-family:Verdana;
                                    font-weight:bold;
                                    color:#333;
                                    text-transform:uppercase;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital ul{
                                    padding:0;
                                    margin:2px 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital ul li{
                                    list-style-type:none;
                                    clear:both;
                                    border:1px solid #e0ecee;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                                    font-weight:bold;
                                    color:#ff7900;
                                    float:right;
                                    width:2em;
                                    text-align:right;
                                    padding-right:.5em;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                                    font-weight:bold;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-vital a {
                                    text-decoration:none;
                                    }

                                    #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                                    text-decoration:underline;
                                    }

                                    #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
                                    color:#999;
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                                    padding:6px 13px;
                                    background-color:#e0ecee;
                                    margin-bottom:20px;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                                    padding:0 0 0 8px;
                                    margin:0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
                                    list-style-type:square;
                                    padding:6px 0;
                                    font-size:77%;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
                                    text-decoration:none;
                                    font-size:130%;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor #nc {
                                    background-color:#eee;
                                    margin-bottom:20px;
                                    padding:0 8px;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor .ad{
                                    padding:8px 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
                                    font-family:Arial;
                                    font-weight:bold;
                                    color:#628c2a;
                                    font-size:100%;
                                    line-height:122%;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
                                    text-decoration:none;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
                                    text-decoration:underline;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
                                    margin:0;
                                    }
                                    o {font-size:0;}
                                    .MsoNormal {
                                    margin:0 0 0 0;
                                    }
                                    #ygrp-text tt{
                                    font-size:120%;
                                    }
                                    blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
                                    .replbq {margin:4;}
                                    -->







                                    __________________________________________________
                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    http://mail.yahoo.com

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • L.M. Kies
                                    Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya. ... I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Dec 15, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.


                                      >------- Original Message -------
                                      >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                                      >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                      >

                                      I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.

                                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos30.jpg
                                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html


                                      K tvoim uslugam,

                                      Sofya

                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                      "Si no necare, sana."
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • magdalenag56
                                      I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn t want anyone to pay more for it than it s worth. ...
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant
                                        under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it
                                        than it's worth.
                                        >
                                        > Sofya

                                        I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for chafing at
                                        Pennsic. So do check that out.

                                        Just my dwa zlota
                                        Magdalena Gdanska
                                      • Jennifer Nelson Kemp
                                        I guess I m old fashioned or something but I either wear bloomers (not that I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at pennsic or I wear biker
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I guess I'm old fashioned or something but I either wear bloomers (not that
                                          I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at pennsic or I wear
                                          biker shorts to help with that. Powders or creams tend to make me break out
                                          worse...though there was an herbalist at Pennsic that was selling chaffing
                                          powder to help with that, though I don't know the ingredients.

                                          Posadnitsa Ianuk


                                          On 12/16/06, magdalenag56 <magdalenag56@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant
                                          > under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it
                                          > than it's worth.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sofya
                                          >
                                          > I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for chafing at
                                          > Pennsic. So do check that out.
                                          >
                                          > Just my dwa zlota
                                          > Magdalena Gdanska
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • aleannain@insightbb.com
                                          I use simple baby powder and it seems to help me...whether I be fighting or in garb...it helps with me not chafing. Anushka ... From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Dec 16, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I use simple baby powder and it seems to help me...whether I be fighting or in garb...it helps with me not chafing.

                                            Anushka

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp <lady.ianuk@...>
                                            Date: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:02
                                            Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Chafing under your garb
                                            To: sig@yahoogroups.com

                                            > I guess I'm old fashioned or something but I either wear
                                            > bloomers (not that
                                            > I have documentation for Rus women wearing them) while at
                                            > pennsic or I wear
                                            > biker shorts to help with that. Powders or creams tend to
                                            > make me break out
                                            > worse...though there was an herbalist at Pennsic that was
                                            > selling chaffing
                                            > powder to help with that, though I don't know the ingredients.
                                            >
                                            > Posadnitsa Ianuk
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On 12/16/06, magdalenag56 <magdalenag56@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just
                                            > anti-perspirant
                                            > > under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more
                                            > for it
                                            > > than it's worth.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Sofya
                                            > >
                                            > > I've heard about people using their anti-perspirant for
                                            > chafing at
                                            > > Pennsic. So do check that out.
                                            > >
                                            > > Just my dwa zlota
                                            > > Magdalena Gdanska
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ilijana Krakowska
                                            According to the label, the ingredients are Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E) I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Dec 17, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              According to the label, the ingredients are "Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E)"
                                              I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the Vitamin E and the Aloe Vera in there to help reduce the irritation.

                                              As far as anti-perspriants go, I have used them to prevent the sweat from rolling down my thighs, but the brand I use didn't do anthing to prevent chafing as far as I could tell.

                                              "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

                                              >------- Original Message -------
                                              > I just want to share that I found a product at a sports-shoe store called Sport Shield made to prevent chafing. [snip]

                                              [snip] I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be just anti-perspirant under a different name, and I wouldn't want anyone to pay more for it than it's worth.

                                              Sofya




                                              Ilijana Krakowska
                                              Per pale argent and gules, two cats sejant addorsed counterchanged.
                                              __________________________________________________
                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • L.M. Kies
                                              ... I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Dec 17, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                >------- Original Message -------
                                                >
                                                >According to the label, the ingredients are "Dimethicone, Aloe Vera Extract, Tocopherol (Vitamin E)"
                                                I think the dimethicone (which I seem to recall is an ingredient in the OTC anti-gas/stomach acid products) is probably the anti-friction agent with the Vitamin E and the Aloe Vera in there to help reduce the irritation.
                                                >
                                                As far as anti-perspriants go, I have used them to prevent the sweat from rolling down my thighs, but the brand I use didn't do anthing to prevent chafing as far as I could tell.
                                                >

                                                I'm sure it depends on the kind of anti-perspirant - mine would work quite nice for chafing - but then it's "inactive ingredients" include talc, dimethicone, and hydrogenated castor oil, among others. (Aluminum zirconium trichlorohydrex etc. is the active "anti-perspirant" ingredient.) I've used some roll-ons in the past that went on sticky and seemed to stay sticky - bad for chaffing.

                                                Since most anti-perspirants are not sealed in the store, put a little on your fingers and see how "slippery" it feels, or look for the "slippery" ingredients.

                                                Oh, and anti-gas products contain simethicone, not dimethicone. Hmm... dimethicone is an alternative treatment for head lice. Interesting. I guess it helps comb out the nits. ;)

                                                Sofya



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Rick Orli
                                                One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing - don t remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a garmet that a tailor
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Dec 20, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing -
                                                  don't remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a
                                                  garmet that a tailor could commit is if the hem in the front is
                                                  longer than the hem in the back. -Rick
                                                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > >------- Original Message -------
                                                  > >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across
                                                  so when
                                                  > >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see
                                                  below.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos3
                                                  0.jpg
                                                  > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > K tvoim uslugam,
                                                  >
                                                  > Sofya
                                                  >
                                                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  -
                                                  > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                  > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                  > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                  > "Si no necare, sana."
                                                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  -
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                  Thanks! ... -- Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Thanks!

                                                    On Wed, December 20, 2006 5:56 pm, Rick Orli wrote:
                                                    > One of the 17th C. tailors who speaks to us through his writing -
                                                    > don't remember who right off- said that the worst sort of fault in a
                                                    > garmet that a tailor could commit is if the hem in the front is
                                                    > longer than the hem in the back. -Rick
                                                    > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> >------- Original Message -------
                                                    >> >When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across
                                                    > so when
                                                    >> >work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                    >> >
                                                    >>
                                                    >> I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see
                                                    > below.
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos3
                                                    > 0.jpg
                                                    >> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> K tvoim uslugam,
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Sofya
                                                    >>
                                                    >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    > -
                                                    >> Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                    >> Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                    >> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                    >> "Si no necare, sana."
                                                    >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    > -
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    --
                                                    Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                    Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                  • Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                    Thanks! ... -- Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Thanks!

                                                      On Fri, December 15, 2006 9:26 pm, L.M. Kies wrote:
                                                      > Master Nikulai, poklon ot Sofya.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >>------- Original Message -------
                                                      >>When hemming a shuba, should the hem be even all the way across so when
                                                      >>work it hangs unevenly, or should it be hemmed evenly when worn?
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      > I would say it should be hemmed so it hangs evenly when worn - see below.
                                                      >
                                                      > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PeriodImages/soloveckoevos30.jpg
                                                      > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/clothingart.html
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > K tvoim uslugam,
                                                      >
                                                      > Sofya
                                                      >
                                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                      > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Lady Sofya la Rus
                                                      > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                      > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                      > "Si no necare, sana."
                                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >


                                                      --
                                                      Master Nikulai Ivanovich, OP
                                                      Or, on a bend cotised sable, three fox masks or palewise.
                                                    • Marina Anastasia Ozeroski
                                                      Can anyone direct me to a suitable supplier for period (or period-looking foorwear) for a late period Ukrainian? Thanks Marina
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Dec 22, 2006
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Can anyone direct me to a suitable supplier for period (or
                                                        period-looking foorwear) for a late period Ukrainian?

                                                        Thanks
                                                        Marina
                                                      • Stephanie Ross
                                                        You could try Vika at Ebay - item #190065182643. I bet if you emailed her she might be able to make them according to your specifications if what she s selling
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Dec 26, 2006
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          You could try Vika at Ebay - item #190065182643. I bet if you emailed her
                                                          she might be able to make them according to your specifications if what
                                                          she's selling isn't exactly what you're looking for. She has all her wares
                                                          made in Ukraine (which is where she is from and her mom still lives there
                                                          and looks for stuff for her to sell here). She is also rather knowledgeable
                                                          about peasant costume and is very nice to talk with.


                                                          Nadya
                                                          Et si omnes, ego non.
                                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.