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Re: Polish Names

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  • Art Plazewski
    ... here is some in english but all I have is in polish: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~atpc/heritage/history/h- life/women.html Kozlowski - xix
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 13 1:44 PM
      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks everyone :)
      > Nope, the herald is not a native Polish speaker. How many native
      > Polish speaking heralds do you think we have here in Lochac?!
      > So who is Alojzy Kalixt Kozlowski? Is there an English translation
      > (looks hopeful) and why is everyone in history called Jadwiga if
      > Nawojka is the slavic equivelent? Does the Honourable Scholar
      > Kozlowski give any dates and more specific locations for the name?
      > :)
      > Rosie the Surprised (that this was going to be so complicated)
      >
      >

      here is some in english but all I have is in polish:
      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~atpc/heritage/history/h-
      life/women.html

      Kozlowski - xix century scholar...

      because Jadwiga (Hedwig) was the name popularized by the clergy...and
      clergy did not like old slavic names...

      ;-)
      art
    • Rosie
      Hmm. Unfortunately the story of the student does not mention her by name, at least not the translation I read in an obscure journal article I found. Maybe the
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 14 4:05 AM
        Hmm. Unfortunately the story of the student does not mention her by
        name, at least not the translation I read in an obscure journal
        article I found. Maybe the version I found was incomplete?
        Rosie (who sadly doesn't read Polish either...)
      • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
        ... However, it turns out that non-royals didn t use Jadwiga until rather late in period-- it first appears with the famous Jadwiga, who was born Hungarian.
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 14 9:35 AM
          > Choosing your name based on past royalty shouldn't be an impediment
          >either - as long as you aren't trying to imply that's who you are,
          >you're not breaking the Society rule against that, so again it should
          >be allowed.

          However, it turns out that non-royals didn't use Jadwiga until rather
          late in period-- it first appears with the famous Jadwiga, who was born
          Hungarian. Embarrassing for me, that.

          On what basis is the herald complaining?

          --
          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
          "Justice is better than chivalry if we cannot have both."
          -- Alice Stone Blackwell
        • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
          ... *blink* ? Jadwiga is a _scandinavian_ name? At best I thought it was a Polish version of Hedwig, which I thought was German, not Scandahoovian... -- --
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 14 9:36 AM
            > lol....so is your herald polish native speaker? if not tell him to
            > drop me a line...;-)))
            > btw - Nawojka , according to Alojzy Kalixt Kozlowski is a slavic
            > equivalent of scandinavian name Jadwiga....so there you go...

            *blink* ?

            Jadwiga is a _scandinavian_ name? At best I thought it was a Polish
            version of Hedwig, which I thought was German, not Scandahoovian...

            --
            -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
            "Justice is better than chivalry if we cannot have both."
            -- Alice Stone Blackwell
          • Art Plazewski
            ... that s according to Kozlowski...I m searching... ;-) art
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 14 11:32 AM
              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
              <jenne@...> wrote:

              >
              > *blink* ?
              >
              > Jadwiga is a _scandinavian_ name? At best I thought it was a Polish
              > version of Hedwig, which I thought was German, not Scandahoovian...
              >
              > --
              > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...


              that's according to Kozlowski...I'm searching...
              ;-)
              art
            • Rosie
              ... Two things: 1. She hasn t heard of it before. 2. I don t have appropriate documentation. This seems to require a photocopy of the page a Nawojka is
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 14 8:03 PM
                > On what basis is the herald complaining?

                Two things:
                1. She hasn't heard of it before.
                2. I don't have appropriate documentation. This seems to require a
                photocopy of the page a Nawojka is mentioned on, and her dates; and a
                photocopy of the title page of the book. Both online sources I have
                found do actually include the title of the book the info came from,
                but I'm not sure if the herald noticed that." I didn't the first time
                I read it. They don't have very specific dates either, "15th century"
                and "late 15th century. I think she is concerned that Nawojka is a
                modern spelling. I daresay a birth certificate would do ;)

                Does anyone know where a person in Central Victoria (Australia) could
                find records for Poland? Census, that sort of thing?

                My Guide leaders always told me that challenges were good for me..
                Rosie
              • Art Plazewski
                ... would do ;) ... hmmmmmm...short of writing to the Jagiellonian University library I have no idea...that herald has rather interesting rules....as a native
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 15 3:40 PM
                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                  would do ;)
                  >
                  > Does anyone know where a person in Central Victoria (Australia) could
                  > find records for Poland? Census, that sort of thing?
                  >
                  > My Guide leaders always told me that challenges were good for me..
                  > Rosie
                  >



                  hmmmmmm...short of writing to the Jagiellonian University library I
                  have no idea...that herald has rather interesting rules....as a native
                  Pole I can asure you that this is a proper spelling....
                  good luck...

                  ;-)
                  art
                • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                  ... Contact the Kingdom college of heralds and ask if they can ask on SCA-Heralds for someone who has information about the name. There are a lot of heralds
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 15 8:02 PM
                    > > Does anyone know where a person in Central Victoria (Australia) could
                    > > find records for Poland? Census, that sort of thing?
                    > >
                    > > My Guide leaders always told me that challenges were good for me..
                    > > Rosie

                    Contact the Kingdom college of heralds and ask if they can ask on
                    SCA-Heralds for someone who has information about the name. There are a
                    lot of heralds all over the world who enjoy poring over reference books
                    in the service of this kind of thing.

                    --
                    -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                    "Justice is better than chivalry if we cannot have both."
                    -- Alice Stone Blackwell
                  • Rebecca Lucas
                    Rosie, How many people on this list are from Lochac is the question! :) There aren t that many of us. Since you are in Lochac, may I suggest you use the
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 16 12:28 AM
                      Rosie,
                      How many people on this list are from Lochac is the question! :)
                      There aren't that many of us.

                      Since you are in Lochac, may I suggest you use the utterly amazing Libraries
                      Australia database (at: http://librariesaustralia.nla.gov.au/ ) for 'Names,
                      Personal -- Polish'. There are quite a few books in interesting places
                      around the country so hopefully there will be some nearby.
                      (If there is anything at Melboure university, Monash university or RMIT at a
                      Melbourne library, I would be able in a few weeks to track down those books
                      for you, but right now I have exams.)

                      E-mail me off list if I can help out with books,
                      Asfridhr, College of St. Barts, Barony of Stormhold, Kingdom of Lochac.

                      Posted by: "Rosie" Rosie_0801@... rosie_0801
                      Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:24 pm (PST)
                      Thanks everyone :)
                      Nope, the herald is not a native Polish speaker. How many native
                      Polish speaking heralds do you think we have here in Lochac?!
                    • quokkaqueen
                      Rosie, Here are two dated examples of Nawojka, although I would try to find sources other than the internet to back them up. Nawojka Koniecpolska, died 1531
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 16 8:12 PM
                        Rosie,
                        Here are two dated examples of Nawojka, although I would try to find
                        sources other than the internet to back them up.

                        Nawojka Koniecpolska, died 1531
                        Nawojka Lang, died 15th century?
                        Nawojka Kmita, born 15th century?
                        Nawojka Zaremba, born 15th century?

                        from: http://genealog.home.pl/gd/szablony/osoba.php?lang=en&id=027832
                        http://genealog.home.pl/gd/szablony/osoba.php?lang=en&id=026994
                        http://genealog.home.pl/gd/szablony/osoba.php?lang=en&id=027304
                        http://genealog.home.pl/gd/szablony/osoba.php?lang=en&id=027011

                        According to another website, Nawojka Koniecpolska was a 'starost' at
                        Przemyśl castle, which may be why she's the only one I could find
                        with a recorded death.

                        from: http://www.kki.krakow.pl/pioinf/przemysl/dzieje/dzieje1_e.html
                        definition of starost at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starost

                        The good news for you, is that you now have a reference point for a
                        Nawojka who isn't semi-legendary, so you won't have a problem with the
                        possibility that the only woman in period called Nawojka was a
                        legendary cross-dressing student. (And since being a cross-dressing
                        student wouldn't have been something one may want to publicly aspire
                        to, the name may have had negative connotations.)

                        The reason why your herald is being so seemingly nasty and harsh is
                        because she doesn't want you to get so attached to a name, only to not
                        have enough evidence for it, so it gets returned when you submit it.
                        It is better to have too much documentation than not enough.

                        Hope this helps,
                        Asfridhr

                        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi All,
                        > I'm hoping someone here has the right kind of thinking cap for this
                        > job :)
                        > I'm trying to make an SCA name, and I wanted "Nawojka"

                        <<snip>>
                      • Rosie
                        Yay! Thanks to everyone who helped! My local herald is now convinced that Nawojka is a respectable name for SCA Polish persona d chicks :D Now she wants me to
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 25 9:16 PM
                          Yay! Thanks to everyone who helped! My local herald is now convinced
                          that Nawojka is a respectable name for SCA Polish persona'd chicks :D
                          Now she wants me to find a byname. Erg.. Anyone have documentation for
                          something short, sweet and lacking in accented letters I can't
                          pronounce? Krakowa, Krakowska..
                          How does one find out how city names were spelled 500 years ago anyway?
                          Rosie

                          > I'm trying to make an SCA name, and I wanted "Nawojka"
                        • Ron Jachim
                          You might take a look at this online store: http://www.polartcenter.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl/SID=1151630185.3410/page=heritage.htm I ve been going to their bricks &
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 29 6:24 PM
                            You might take a look at this online store:

                            http://www.polartcenter.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl/SID=1151630185.3410/page=heritage.htm

                            I've been going to their bricks & mortar store for many years. There
                            is a book with maps and town names as of 1772 (prior to the first
                            partition). Ok, so it's not 500 years old, but it's closer than
                            National Geographic. There are also books on Polish first names and
                            Polish last names on that page.

                            Ron
                          • Art Plazewski
                            ... for ... anyway? ... City names are still the same ...they did not change... ;-) art
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 30 2:05 PM
                              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yay! Thanks to everyone who helped! My local herald is now convinced
                              > that Nawojka is a respectable name for SCA Polish persona'd chicks :D
                              > Now she wants me to find a byname. Erg.. Anyone have documentation
                              for
                              > something short, sweet and lacking in accented letters I can't
                              > pronounce? Krakowa, Krakowska..
                              > How does one find out how city names were spelled 500 years ago
                              anyway?
                              > Rosie
                              >
                              > > I'm trying to make an SCA name, and I wanted "Nawojka"
                              >


                              City names are still the same ...they did not change...
                              ;-)
                              art
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