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Re: religion in the SCA (was Re: kvas revisited)

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  • Jenne Heise
    ... [snip] ... Before you whip out the soapbox, try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not commenting on religion in a list may not be about what s
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 2, 1999
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      On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Jenn Ridley wrote:
      > >I will not comment on religion on a list because it is not appropriate to the SCA.
      >
      > Pardon me?!? You mean to tell me that understanding, even on the most
      > superficial level, the differences between modern Christianity and the
      > religions that our personas were living is *not* SCA related??

      [snip]
      > knowledge is good. just don't pass up the stuff that's really true in
      > favor of the stuff that you wish was true.

      Before you whip out the soapbox, try to give people the benefit of the
      doubt. Not commenting on religion in a list may not be about 'what's
      interesting' but about not offending people or starting flamewars. (Policy
      #6 has a lot to answer for. Some people genuinely overinterpret it to mean
      that you cannot discuss religion in the SCA or have a religious persona.)

      (I will point out that the last time this was discussed, some remarks were
      made about those who choose to have pagan personas as well as modern
      pagans, and the person may well be trying to avoid a flamewar.)

      Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
      disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me...

      ".. objections to the evils of political correctness have become a hypocritical
      reflex that lets people justify all kinds of rude behavior while telling
      themselves that they're actually standing up for freedom and values and
      tradition and stuff." -- Phil Agre, Red Rock Eater News Service
    • Castalia
      Greetings. ... the SCA. ... My persona is Orthodox and deeply so. I wasn t concerened about the superficial level, but the deeper levels. I apologise that I
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 2, 1999
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        Greetings.

        >>I will not comment on religion on a list because it is not appropriate to
        the SCA.
        >
        >Pardon me?!? You mean to tell me that understanding, even on the most
        >superficial level, the differences between modern Christianity and the
        >religions that our personas were living is *not* SCA related??


        My persona is Orthodox and deeply so. I wasn't concerened about the
        superficial level, but the deeper levels. I apologise that I find it
        difficult to disuss religion on a superficial level.

        >You had better rethink that position. It's like saying that a person
        >with an Oriental persona shouldn't know anything about the Tao, or
        >Buddha or Shinto (depending on the country and era).

        I don't believe I said that a person shouldn't know about the religions of
        their period culture. I'm just saying that I gave my superficial comments
        already, and prefer to take the more substantial ones off list. Including
        my joyous religious experiences inside the Kremlin Churches, or at Sergiev
        Posad.

        Or the senses of wonder and mystery at the Church sacred to the Russian Navy
        in Petersburg.

        Would you say
        >that a Crusader persona shouldn't know anything about the Church s/he
        >is Crusading for, since it's not SCA appropriate?


        History is excellent. I suppose that I felt less like commenting on Pagan
        history on the list.

        >Icons are not a part of my daily life. Neither is Daily Mass, or
        >Buddhist meditation. That doesn't mean that I should just ignore them
        >even if it is persona appropriate.


        I have icons in my home. They are treasures to me, and spiritually
        significant. I'd just prefer to comment off list unless it's relevant.
        Perhaps I misjudged what is relevant, because I only going on past years of
        SCA experience.



        >>However, I do *love* the Kremlin. But I got iconed to death in Moscow and
        >>after a while couldn't take it anymore.
        >
        >OK, I see... you feel uncomfortable with it. Therefore it's
        >inappropriate.


        In Leningrad, I went to a number of churches and saw perhaps two hundred
        Icons. then I went to Moscow. I went to the New Church downtown that was
        once a swimming pool. Old Church, new Church and modern icons. I went to
        the Kremlin and saw hundreds and hundred of icons. We went to Sergiev Posad
        and in 35 degree centegrade saw very many old church icons.

        My sig oth. turned to me and said: tomorrow we will go to ******* he said
        "There are many icons there." I said, please, no more icons. Not this
        weekend.


        >/sarcasm on
        >But ooooh....Pagans...now there's something *interesting*.
        >/sarcasm off


        I answered direct questions. And suggested I take it off-list. Twas not
        meant to offend you or others.


        >Never mind that Orthodox Christianity has enough real history to
        >fascinate a person for years;

        History is good.

        never mind that the differences between
        >orthodox Christianity and modern christianity are deep (perhaps not
        >very wide, but still go back century upon century); never mind that
        >all we have on russian paganism is folk tales and speculation.


        Was this still directed at me? Or others.

        I'd certainly be very interesting in your knowledge about the differences
        between old church and new church of Russian Othodox, either on list or off.


        Respectfully yours,
        K.
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