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Re: [sig] Seam Finishes

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  • Rick Orli
    Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what are you making, shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident last year when my size 44 sweater was
    Message 1 of 17 , May 11, 2006
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      Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what are you making,
      shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident last year when my
      size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot water, and came out size
      4T. The thought that passed though my mind was, ah! so this is how
      to get suitable material to make felt boots.

      But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the construction press
      is done right, the only time I have really had trouble is if a coat I
      had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no wool coat deserves.
      for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom washed, wool does
      not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like cotton, and if allowed
      to air well will have just the right, er, quality, for the 16-17th
      C.
      -Rick

      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...> wrote:
      >
      > that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I have found since that
      my wool
      > is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam allowances will not
      lay flat so
      > now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or catchstitch) on the
      inside
      > down each side of the seam to keep the seam allowances flat. since
      I'm using
      > a matching color in sewing thread its not showing on the outside,
      not
      > certain it will show on the outside. I also used the same stich for
      the hem,
      > keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the hem on stuff.
      >
      > Kathws
      >
      > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:38 AM
      > Subject: RE : Re: [sig] Seam Finishes
      >
      >
      > > The majority of my tailoring is with coats, using heavy wool cloth
      > > that is so felted that you need to inspect closely to see
      evidence of
      > > the weave. If its the good stuff it does not need any sort of
      edge
      > > finishing, (nor did they do so in period, at least with soldier's
      > > coats, although I don't know one way or the other for rich men's
      > > clothes - but in truth it does not need it. just needs to be
      pressed
      > > flat.)
      >
    • historian@reconstructinghistory.com
      Actually if your seam allowances are so thick that they are not at all ravelly, you can trim the seeam allowances down as close to the seam as you can get
      Message 2 of 17 , May 11, 2006
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        Actually if your seam allowances are so thick that they are not at all
        ravelly, you can trim the seeam allowances down as close to the seam
        as you can get without cutting the seam stitching. Many extant wool
        garments made from thick textiles have barely any seam allowances at
        all (1/8" and they stand straight up), and some are even butted
        together instead of folded over into a seam.

        The seam finish you're doing, Kathws, will certainly hold the seam
        allowances open and flat, but there will still be bulk. If you don't
        want that bulk, you can trim it without much fear of unravelling in
        this case.

        Kass
        Reconstructing History
        http://reconstructinghistory.com

        Quoting Rick Orli <orlirva@...>:

        > Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what are you making,
        > shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident last year when my
        > size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot water, and came out size
        >
        > 4T. The thought that passed though my mind was, ah! so this is how
        > to get suitable material to make felt boots.
        >
        > But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the construction press
        > is done right, the only time I have really had trouble is if a coat I
        >
        > had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no wool coat deserves.
        >
        > for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom washed, wool does
        > not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like cotton, and if allowed
        > to air well will have just the right, er, quality, for the 16-17th
        > C.
        > -Rick
        >
        > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I have found since that
        >
        > my wool
        >> is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam allowances will not
        > lay flat so
        >> now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or catchstitch) on the
        >
        > inside
        >> down each side of the seam to keep the seam allowances flat. since
        > I'm using
        >> a matching color in sewing thread its not showing on the outside,
        > not
        >> certain it will show on the outside. I also used the same stich for
        >
        > the hem,
        >> keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the hem on stuff.
        >>
        >> Kathws
        >>
        >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:38 AM
        >> Subject: RE : Re: [sig] Seam Finishes
        >>
        >>
        >> > The majority of my tailoring is with coats, using heavy wool
        > cloth
        >> > that is so felted that you need to inspect closely to see
        > evidence of
        >> > the weave. If its the good stuff it does not need any sort of
        > edge
        >> > finishing, (nor did they do so in period, at least with soldier's
        >> > coats, although I don't know one way or the other for rich men's
        >> > clothes - but in truth it does not need it. just needs to be
        > pressed
        >> > flat.)
      • Tim Nalley
        Most of the serious 14C people felt thier wool, most especially for their hose. The hoods are quite thick as are their winter wieght coate hardies, but not
        Message 3 of 17 , May 11, 2006
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          Most of the serious 14C people felt thier wool, most
          especially for their hose. The hoods are quite thick
          as are their winter wieght coate hardies, but not
          felted x4! They count on a third shrinkage on average.
          'dok

          --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:

          > Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what
          > are you making,
          > shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident
          > last year when my
          > size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot water,
          > and came out size
          > 4T. The thought that passed though my mind was, ah!
          > so this is how
          > to get suitable material to make felt boots.
          >
          > But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the
          > construction press
          > is done right, the only time I have really had
          > trouble is if a coat I
          > had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no wool
          > coat deserves.
          > for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom
          > washed, wool does
          > not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like
          > cotton, and if allowed
          > to air well will have just the right, er, quality,
          > for the 16-17th
          > C.
          > -Rick
          >
          > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I have
          > found since that
          > my wool
          > > is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam
          > allowances will not
          > lay flat so
          > > now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or
          > catchstitch) on the
          > inside
          > > down each side of the seam to keep the seam
          > allowances flat. since
          > I'm using
          > > a matching color in sewing thread its not showing
          > on the outside,
          > not
          > > certain it will show on the outside. I also used
          > the same stich for
          > the hem,
          > > keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the
          > hem on stuff.
          > >
          > > Kathws
          > >
          > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:38 AM
          > > Subject: RE : Re: [sig] Seam Finishes
          > >
          > >
          > > > The majority of my tailoring is with coats,
          > using heavy wool cloth
          > > > that is so felted that you need to inspect
          > closely to see
          > evidence of
          > > > the weave. If its the good stuff it does not
          > need any sort of
          > edge
          > > > finishing, (nor did they do so in period, at
          > least with soldier's
          > > > coats, although I don't know one way or the
          > other for rich men's
          > > > clothes - but in truth it does not need it. just
          > needs to be
          > pressed
          > > > flat.)
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • historian@reconstructinghistory.com
          Tim, The 4X Rick experienced is because he shrunk a sweater (which is knit), not something woven, which won t shrink nearly as much. =) Rick, They aren t
          Message 4 of 17 , May 11, 2006
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            Tim,

            The 4X Rick experienced is because he shrunk a sweater (which is
            knit), not something woven, which won't shrink nearly as much. =)

            Rick,

            They aren't boiling their wool as much as they are "shocking" it with
            a hot wash and cold rinse in the washing machine. While this doesn't
            exactly full the wool as it would have been fulled in the 14th
            century, it thickens modern wool to the point where it more closely
            resembles medieval wool and doesn't ravel, so you can leave your hems
            unsewn and do the seam finishes as they were done in period without
            fear of your clothing fraying.

            Kass
            Reconstructing History
            http://reconstructinghistory.com

            Quoting Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>:

            > Most of the serious 14C people felt thier wool, most
            > especially for their hose. The hoods are quite thick
            > as are their winter wieght coate hardies, but not
            > felted x4! They count on a third shrinkage on average.
            > 'dok
            >
            > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what
            >> are you making,
            >> shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident
            >> last year when my
            >> size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot water,
            >> and came out size
            >> 4T. The thought that passed though my mind was, ah!
            >> so this is how
            >> to get suitable material to make felt boots.
            >>
            >> But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the
            >> construction press
            >> is done right, the only time I have really had
            >> trouble is if a coat I
            >> had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no wool
            >> coat deserves.
            >> for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom
            >> washed, wool does
            >> not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like
            >> cotton, and if allowed
            >> to air well will have just the right, er, quality,
            >> for the 16-17th
            >> C.
            >> -Rick
            >>
            >> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...>
            >> wrote:
            >> >
            >> > that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I have
            >> found since that
            >> my wool
            >> > is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam
            >> allowances will not
            >> lay flat so
            >> > now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or
            >> catchstitch) on the
            >> inside
            >> > down each side of the seam to keep the seam
            >> allowances flat. since
            >> I'm using
            >> > a matching color in sewing thread its not showing
            >> on the outside,
            >> not
            >> > certain it will show on the outside. I also used
            >> the same stich for
            >> the hem,
            >> > keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the
            >> hem on stuff.
            >> >
            >> > Kathws
            >> >
            >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:38 AM
            >> > Subject: RE : Re: [sig] Seam Finishes
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > > The majority of my tailoring is with coats,
            >> using heavy wool cloth
            >> > > that is so felted that you need to inspect
            >> closely to see
            >> evidence of
            >> > > the weave. If its the good stuff it does not
            >> need any sort of
            >> edge
            >> > > finishing, (nor did they do so in period, at
            >> least with soldier's
            >> > > coats, although I don't know one way or the
            >> other for rich men's
            >> > > clothes - but in truth it does not need it. just
            >> needs to be
            >> pressed
            >> > > flat.)
            >> >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
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          • Lente
            Okay I just saw this message. I started out with 100% wool that I bought at hancocks several years back, I think it was a plain weave (call it a jacket weight)
            Message 5 of 17 , May 11, 2006
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              Okay I just saw this message. I started out with 100% wool that I bought at
              hancocks several years back, I think it was a plain weave (call it a jacket
              weight) that was 5 1/2 yds by 60" wide. And yes I meant to full the wool,
              basically I washed it in the hottest water my washer does three times, I
              didn't dry it between washes, just pulled it out of the washer to get the
              twists out then put it right back in. After that I tossed it in the dryer
              and dried the wool until dry, probably a couple of hours with lots of
              checking to clean out the lint trap. After all that the wool ended up being
              4 7/8 yds by 45" wide with ripply edges which did make me figure out a new
              layout using the unshrunk selvage edges, I ended up putting all of them
              along the back seam and one the shoulder seams of the sleeves. I then made
              it into a full length coat since I don't like cloaks; it also works great as
              an extra layer on the air mattress. Since it is so bulky if I need to wash
              it I will probably do it the bathtub with cold water. I have had to get some
              juice my kids spilled on it out once and when I looked closely at it the
              juice had just set on the surface and dried all goey, so it really was more
              of a rinse out in the shower, but it took a week of hanging to dry fully.

              This isn't the first piece of wool I have washed. Some of the things I have
              found out washing wool are these: Plain weave fulls the best, don't EVER do
              a wool crepe unless your looking for a really dense peice that will have
              shrunk a lot (2 1/2 yds by 60" down to 32" by 36"), a twill that I have
              prewashed shrunk the smallest amount about 4 inches in the length and
              nothing in the width, got a little fuzzy but that is about all. When you
              have your garment made up from that point on if washing your wool garment in
              a washing machine use the gentle/hand wash cycle in cold water only. Don't
              be surprised if when your wool is dry clean if the dye changes, I had one
              that changed from tan to grey, I understand the dry clean fabrics don't
              alwasy have a washing safe dye used on them.

              for felting boots from wool roving go check outthe renaissance tailor site,
              she has a tutorial on making boots, making boots from wool yardage might
              entail sewing them as lether boots are.

              Kathws

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>
              To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Seam Finishes


              Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it? what are you making,
              shoe soles? That happened at my house by accident last year when my
              size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot water, and came out size
              4T. The thought that passed though my mind was, ah! so this is how
              to get suitable material to make felt boots.

              But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the construction press
              is done right, the only time I have really had trouble is if a coat I
              had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no wool coat deserves.
              for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom washed, wool does
              not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like cotton, and if allowed
              to air well will have just the right, er, quality, for the 16-17th
              C.
              -Rick

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...> wrote:
              >
              > that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I have found since that
              my wool
              > is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam allowances will not
              lay flat so
              > now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or catchstitch) on the
              inside
              > down each side of the seam to keep the seam allowances flat. since
              I'm using
              > a matching color in sewing thread its not showing on the outside,
              not
              > certain it will show on the outside. I also used the same stich for
              the hem,
              > keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the hem on stuff.
              >
              > Kathws
            • Tim Nalley
              Hey, thanks for the tips! I have all this second hand as I m a dyed in the wool Russian but I had planed to fill in the shallow spots in my wardrobe with
              Message 6 of 17 , May 12, 2006
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                Hey, thanks for the tips! I have all this second hand
                as I'm a dyed in the wool Russian but I had planed to
                fill in the shallow spots in my wardrobe with leather,
                linen and wool this year! This will really help!
                'dok

                --- historian@... wrote:

                > Tim,
                >
                > The 4X Rick experienced is because he shrunk a
                > sweater (which is
                > knit), not something woven, which won't shrink
                > nearly as much. =)
                >
                > Rick,
                >
                > They aren't boiling their wool as much as they are
                > "shocking" it with
                > a hot wash and cold rinse in the washing machine.
                > While this doesn't
                > exactly full the wool as it would have been fulled
                > in the 14th
                > century, it thickens modern wool to the point where
                > it more closely
                > resembles medieval wool and doesn't ravel, so you
                > can leave your hems
                > unsewn and do the seam finishes as they were done in
                > period without
                > fear of your clothing fraying.
                >
                > Kass
                > Reconstructing History
                > http://reconstructinghistory.com
                >
                > Quoting Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>:
                >
                > > Most of the serious 14C people felt thier wool,
                > most
                > > especially for their hose. The hoods are quite
                > thick
                > > as are their winter wieght coate hardies, but not
                > > felted x4! They count on a third shrinkage on
                > average.
                > > 'dok
                > >
                > > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >> Do you really take a heavy wool and boil it?
                > what
                > >> are you making,
                > >> shoe soles? That happened at my house by
                > accident
                > >> last year when my
                > >> size 44 sweater was accidently washed in hot
                > water,
                > >> and came out size
                > >> 4T. The thought that passed though my mind was,
                > ah!
                > >> so this is how
                > >> to get suitable material to make felt boots.
                > >>
                > >> But, if the wool is more typically thick,and the
                > >> construction press
                > >> is done right, the only time I have really had
                > >> trouble is if a coat I
                > >> had loaned out was machine washed, treatment no
                > wool
                > >> coat deserves.
                > >> for that matter, wool coats should be very seldom
                > >> washed, wool does
                > >> not absorb sweat and oils and aromatics like
                > >> cotton, and if allowed
                > >> to air well will have just the right, er,
                > quality,
                > >> for the 16-17th
                > >> C.
                > >> -Rick
                > >>
                > >> --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Lente" <lente@...>
                > >> wrote:
                > >> >
                > >> > that's what I did on my long wool coat, but I
                > have
                > >> found since that
                > >> my wool
                > >> > is so thick (prewashed 3x's in hot) the seam
                > >> allowances will not
                > >> lay flat so
                > >> > now I am going back and doing a herringbone (or
                > >> catchstitch) on the
                > >> inside
                > >> > down each side of the seam to keep the seam
                > >> allowances flat. since
                > >> I'm using
                > >> > a matching color in sewing thread its not
                > showing
                > >> on the outside,
                > >> not
                > >> > certain it will show on the outside. I also
                > used
                > >> the same stich for
                > >> the hem,
                > >> > keeps it all nice and flat so I don't catch the
                > >> hem on stuff.
                > >> >
                > >> > Kathws
                > >> >
                > >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:38 AM
                > >> > Subject: RE : Re: [sig] Seam Finishes
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > > The majority of my tailoring is with coats,
                > >> using heavy wool cloth
                > >> > > that is so felted that you need to inspect
                > >> closely to see
                > >> evidence of
                > >> > > the weave. If its the good stuff it does not
                > >> need any sort of
                > >> edge
                > >> > > finishing, (nor did they do so in period, at
                > >> least with soldier's
                > >> > > coats, although I don't know one way or the
                > >> other for rich men's
                > >> > > clothes - but in truth it does not need it.
                > just
                > >> needs to be
                > >> pressed
                > >> > > flat.)
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
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                > > [3]
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              • Lente
                And if you aren t sure you want the effect that fulling will have on wool, try washing swatches of your wool first. Something like a 9 by 9 square should work
                Message 7 of 17 , May 12, 2006
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                  And if you aren't sure you want the effect that fulling will have on wool,
                  try washing swatches of your wool first. Something like a 9 by 9 square
                  should work fine, half that size might work fine also. I will be probably
                  trying this with some tan coat weight wool that I had bought to make a wool
                  mongol coat for my lord out of; he has since decided for him that will be
                  too much so a chamois flannel coat is in the works. So now I am thinking I
                  will end up using the coat wool to make coats for our 2 kids in the future.
                  Since it is a coat weight and possibly was labeled dry clean (I've had it
                  for 4 years or so) I will use some swatches to test for shrinkage and color
                  loss in both hot, warm and cold water cycles; I'm planning for at least 3
                  swatches.

                  Kathws


                  Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:39 AM
                  Subject: Re: [sig] Seam Finishes


                  > Hey, thanks for the tips! I have all this second hand
                  > as I'm a dyed in the wool Russian but I had planed to
                  > fill in the shallow spots in my wardrobe with leather,
                  > linen and wool this year! This will really help!
                  > 'dok
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