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RE: RE : [sig] Sofya, Underthings site proposal

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  • Stephanie Ross
    WELL DONE SOFYA!!! Thank you again. I can t wait for the female webpage! Nadya Well, my watch today was rewarded with a thick package from Mordak! For those
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 28, 2006
      WELL DONE SOFYA!!! Thank you again. I can't wait for the female webpage!

      Nadya


      Well, my "watch" today was rewarded with a thick package from Mordak!

      For those of you who have been waiting so patiently:

      A Merchant of 15th Century Novgorod
      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanMan.html

      The html code is slightly off in a couple of places, but I'm too tired to fix it.  Please let me know if you find any serious problems.

      I plan to have the article on the Merchant's Wife finished tomorrow.

      In Service,
      Sofya la Rus

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tim Nalley
      So, I have a question that has nagged me.....I use old T-shirts as undershirts because their comfortable and I get more use out of them even if they are
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
        So, I have a question that has nagged me.....I use
        old T-shirts as undershirts because their comfortable
        and I get more use out of them even if they are
        threadbare. I also do that with my old tunics and
        pants in the SCA, have for years actually.
        Maybe I'm just a cheapass but in period the cloth
        was much more expensive than now and before deoderant
        a "dirty" shirt under the nicer "Clean" shirt was
        pretty standard.
        So, maybe underwear in period really is old pants
        and old shirts, cut shorter and recycled for more use
        and a good periodic boiling?
        Just a theory!
        'dok

        --- Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>
        wrote:

        >
        > Greetings!
        >
        >
        > > Well, my "watch" today was rewarded with a thick
        > package from Mordak!
        > >
        > > For those of you who have been waiting so
        > patiently:
        > >
        > > A Merchant of 15th Century Novgorod
        > >
        >
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanMan.html
        > >
        >
        > damn.
        > This is not the source, just the assumption that
        > those pants could be underpants, and the fact that
        > in 19 century Russia the peasants' underpants and
        > the "coffin wear" was made by about same pattern.
        > The fact is that in the tradition the icon was made,
        > the persons in the icon used to wear one pair of
        > thin fabric pants just like those - so the picture
        > shows just people who were stripped of their
        > _shirts_, remaining in the pants. Anyway, no
        > difference between underpants and upperpants (narrow
        > ones, not the Sharovary) pattern never existed. Same
        > pattern, same length, same fixation on the waist.
        >
        > Thus, the main underwear idea of this very
        > reconstruction: underpants must have been of the
        > same pattern as the upperpants, just following the
        > idea of wearing several tunics in cold wear in the
        > Ancient Rome.
        >
        > Bye,
        > Alex.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Sfandra
        Right. Sofya, you rock. This is EXACTLY the images I was thinking of when I questioned underthings . Now, would a logical assumption be that woman wore the
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
          Right.
          Sofya, you rock. This is EXACTLY the images I was
          thinking of when I questioned 'underthings'.

          Now, would a logical assumption be that woman wore the
          same sort of underthings as men?

          --Sfandra



          --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
          > A Merchant of 15th Century Novgorod
          >
          http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanMan.html
          >


          ******************
          Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
          Kingdom of the East
          ******************
          Never 'pearl' your butt.

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        • jennifer knox
          At least in the 10th century they did, that book i mentioned earlier ( von china nach byzanz ) has pictures of pants belonging either to women or men . I
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
            At least in the 10th century they did, that book i mentioned earlier ('von china nach byzanz') has pictures of pants 'belonging either to women or men'. I cant imagine that women were wearing them over their dresses :-). can i send attachments over this list or would i have to send it to a private email address?
            and that web page *does* rock!
            anya

            Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:

            Now, would a logical assumption be that woman wore the
            same sort of underthings as men?

            --Sfandra



            --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
            > A Merchant of 15th Century Novgorod
            >
            http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanMan.html
            >


            ******************
            Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
            Kingdom of the East
            ******************
            Never 'pearl' your butt.

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          • Kseniia Smolnianina
            Post them to the SIG yahoogroup! Please? :) --Kseniia ... -- ********************************** Lady Kseniia Smolnianina Barony of Three Mountains Kingdom of
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
              Post them to the SIG yahoogroup! Please? :)

              --Kseniia

              On 3/1/06, jennifer knox <jeniferknox@...> wrote:
              > At least in the 10th century they did, that book i mentioned earlier ('von china nach byzanz') has pictures of pants 'belonging either to women or men'. I cant imagine that women were wearing them over their dresses :-). can i send attachments over this list or would i have to send it to a private email address?
              > and that web page *does* rock!
              > anya
              >
              > Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
              >
              > Now, would a logical assumption be that woman wore the
              > same sort of underthings as men?
              >
              > --Sfandra
              >
              >
              >
              > --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:
              > > A Merchant of 15th Century Novgorod
              > >
              > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanMan.html
              > >
              >
              >
              > ******************
              > Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
              > Kingdom of the East
              > ******************
              > Never 'pearl' your butt.
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              > Visit your group "sig" on the web.
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > "Speak softly and carry a big stick" -- Teddy Roosevelt
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              **********************************
              Lady Kseniia Smolnianina
              Barony of Three Mountains
              Kingdom of An Tir
              http://kseniia_antir.livejournal.com
              *Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes*
            • Sfandra
              OK, so we ve established the bottom half. Warning for Gentlemen: Discussion of female-specifics ahead! For ladies, what about the top half? Roman garments
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
                OK, so we've established the bottom half.

                Warning for Gentlemen: Discussion of female-specifics
                ahead!

                For ladies, what about the top half? Roman garments
                included a breast band ('strophium' IIRC or something
                like that?), basically just 'strapping down the
                girls'. ;) I have no idea if this carried over to the
                Byzantine empire, or if there were middle eastern
                influences to consider. Subsequent time periods in
                western europe have a certain amount of support built
                in; there are a number of resources for the
                self-supporting cote-simple. I suppose theoretically,
                the first layer sorochka or rubakha could be
                constructed the same way as a supporting cote-simple,
                but the necessary tailoring strikes me as a trifle
                sophisticated compared to other early period Rus'
                garments. I'm rather inclined to think the Rus' used
                nothing at all, or a roman style breast band.

                Comments? Ideas? Perhaps there's a middle-eastern
                item I'm missing?

                --Sfandra

                --- jennifer knox <jeniferknox@...> wrote:

                > At least in the 10th century they did, that book i
                > mentioned earlier ('von china nach byzanz') has
                > pictures of pants 'belonging either to women or
                > men'. I cant imagine that women were wearing them
                > over their dresses :-). can i send attachments over
                > this list or would i have to send it to a private
                > email address?
                > and that web page *does* rock!
                > anya


                ******************
                Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
                Kingdom of the East
                ******************
                Never 'pearl' your butt.

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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              • L.M. Kies
                Wait no more.  :) http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html Sofya ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
                  Wait no more.  :)

                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html

                  Sofya

                  ------- Original Message -------
                  >Thank you again. I can't wait for the female webpage!
                  >
                  >Nadya



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Giudo di Niccolo Brunelleschi
                  Excellent work on BOTH sites, Sofya. Mishka
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 1, 2006
                    Excellent work on BOTH sites, Sofya.
                    Mishka


                    On 3/1/06, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:
                    > Wait no more.  :)
                    >
                    > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html
                    >
                    > Sofya
                  • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                    ... That s where we get into the question of fabric choice. Most of the time, we seem to see wool or other animal fabric as the outerwear, and linen or other
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 3, 2006
                      > So, maybe underwear in period really is old pants
                      > and old shirts, cut shorter and recycled for more use
                      > and a good periodic boiling?

                      That's where we get into the question of fabric choice. Most of the
                      time, we seem to see wool or other animal fabric as the outerwear, and
                      linen or other bast fibers as the innerwear. This is assumed to be
                      because the bast fibers wash better and dry more quickly; putting them
                      next to the skin and washing them on a regular basis seems to make
                      sense. Bast fibers also don't take dye as well as animal fibers, which
                      is a disadvantage for outer clothing.

                      Still, if the rumor that multiple underdresses were used is true, one
                      could layer the better ones over (or under) the older, more worn out
                      things. And after all, t-shirts were originally underclothes, not
                      outerwear. :)



                      --
                      -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                      "America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on
                      imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand."
                      -- Harry S. Truman
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