Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE : [sig] Panova

Expand Messages
  • L.M. Kies
    Ah, the great panova debate...  (2nd only to the great kokoshnik debate?) The issues: The period X-XII c. is poorly covered in all of my books.  They
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 8, 2006
      Ah, the great panova debate...  (2nd only to the great kokoshnik debate?)

      The issues:
      The period X-XII c. is poorly covered in all of my books.  They tend to jump from the Romans/Greeks to the Sarmatians (if they go that early), thence to the XII-XIIIth cent. where things stay rather sketchy until about the 15th century.

      Fabric preserves poorly, so I don't know of any complete surviving early panovas, just scraps of fabric appropriately woven and placed for such a garment.

      Surviving frescos, icons and illuminations tend to show royal women in ceremonial garb, not everyday garments like the poneva (which would be hidden under the outer layers of ceremonial robes, if it was being worn at all on such occasions).

      There are some silver bracelets that have been interpreted as showing the panova, but that style of bracelet is dated to the XII-XIIIth cent. in my books.  Again, a little late for you.

      The term "panova" is apparently to be found in early documents, but it is not certain the exact nature of the garment that they are referring to.  And I don't know how early "early" is for these documents.  Pushkareva only gave a date (XIIth cent) for one of these sources she refers to.

      I have a couple of Russian sources I haven't translated yet, but I don't find any helpful new information there with a quick scan today. 

      So my understanding is that there is reasonable evidence of the poneva back to the XII cent. and the usual dependence on the "conservatism of traditional/ancient Russian costume" and comparisons with related cultures and influences to extrapolate further back in the past.

      Perhaps Predslava will have some other helpful information...

      As always, your mileage may vary.

      Sofya la Rus

      ------- Original Message -------
      Subject : RE : [sig] Panova

      >I am from the group recreating early medieval Russia and we have some
      >costume doubts, namely the existence of panova/poneva. I found it in
      >some sources, but then I found an opinion that it wasn't so surely
      >justified for the period X-XII c.
      >Could you please enlighten me in this matter?
      >TIA.

      >Lady Finna Ostaris



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jennifer Nelson Kemp
      The povena...is that the 3 panelled skirt thing? (poor wording but applicable description, I think) Lady Ianuk [Clip your posts, please. Moderator]
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 8, 2006
        The povena...is that the 3 panelled skirt thing? (poor wording but
        applicable description, I think)

        Lady Ianuk


        [Clip your posts, please. Moderator]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.