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Re: SCA Alternate Titles

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  • quokkaqueen
    Janos, The German examples you use are very apt, as both in the Baltic and Czech titles, a duke can be above a prince in rank. However, it appears that in the
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 8, 2005
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      Janos,

      The German examples you use are very apt, as both in the Baltic and
      Czech titles, a duke can be above a prince in rank.

      However, it appears that in the SCA, the title of prince (or princess)
      is only used for those who are going to take on being king (or queen)
      of the SCA-kingdom.
      So, to continue the German example, it should not be Prinz but Fürst.
      (Do correct me if I'm wrong at any stage guys)

      However, in the SCA-approved list the title for a German prince is Prinz.

      As for the title being correct anywhere within our medieval context,
      the Baltic languages (as best as I can tell) weren't formally written
      down until the end of the 16th century, or later.

      In short, a lot of work needs to be done,
      Asfridhr

      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, <janos@j...> wrote:
      >
      > Alistair (et al)
      >
      > I agree completely that this is dangerous ground. There are a
      couple of problems with a simple and easy chart:
      >
      > 1. We're talking about centuries of titles, which change over time.

      <<snip>>

      > 2. A specific title means a different thing to different people.
      <<snip>>
      > Janos
      >
      > sig@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 18:48:41 +0100
      > From: "Alastair Millar"
      > Subject: Re: SCA Alternate Titles
      >
      > Coming in late on this one, but...
      <<snip>>
      >
      > In summary... be careful!
      >
      > Alastair
      <<snip>>
    • Anthony Bryant
      ... Hardly. The rulers of the principalities of the Mists, Cinagua, Avocal, Oertha, etc, are all princes. Effingham -- Anthony J. Bryant Website:
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 9, 2005
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        quokkaqueen wrote:

        > However, it appears that in the SCA, the title of prince (or princess)
        > is only used for those who are going to take on being king (or queen)
        > of the SCA-kingdom.


        Hardly. <G>

        The rulers of the principalities of the Mists, Cinagua,
        Avocal, Oertha, etc, are all princes.

        Effingham
        --

        Anthony J. Bryant
        Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

        Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

        All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
        http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
      • quokkaqueen
        So, the SCA does need to have these differing alternate titles, not just the simplified titles. Let s see if I ve got it right this time: The rulers of a
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 10, 2005
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          So, the SCA does need to have these differing alternate titles, not
          just the simplified titles.

          Let's see if I've got it right this time:
          The rulers of a principality are rulers in that they aren't going to
          ascend to the throne and become king. Therefore they would take the
          princely title of
          Prinz/Prints/Princas/Princis
          (German/Estonian/Lithuanian/Latvian)

          However, a person who is in a kingdom and is first in line to become
          the next king has the princely title of
          Fürst/Vürst/Kunigaikštis/Firsts

          Once you have been a prince (I would assume of a principality), you
          take on the title of viscount, and once you have been a king you then
          become a count. If you are a count and become king again, once you
          have reigned you are a duke.

          So, if there were to be Lithuanian titles used, your two types of
          prince would be Princas and Kunigaikštis, and a duke would be known as
          Hercogas? (Not Kunigaikštis, because firstly that title is taken up
          by princes and secondly because for at least SCA purposes there is
          only one type of duke?)

          I'm trying to figure this out using the one paragraph under 'rank in
          the SCA' here: http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html

          Hopefully I'm not too confused,
          Asfridhr
          http://www.499angels.net/baltic/

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@c...> wrote:
          <<snip>>
          >
          > The rulers of the principalities of the Mists, Cinagua,
          > Avocal, Oertha, etc, are all princes.
          >
          > Effingham
          <<snip>>
        • janos@j-smith.net
          Hi there, You re only a little confused ;) Fuerst etc represents the ruler of a principality, and Prinz etc represents the heir to the throne. Can t help with
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 11, 2005
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            Hi there,

            You're only a little confused ;)

            Fuerst etc represents the ruler of a principality, and Prinz etc represents the heir to the throne.

            Can't help with the Lithuanian, not my language.

            Janos

            sig@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 08:50:33 -0000
            From: "quokkaqueen"
            Subject: Re: SCA Alternate Titles (getting long)

            So, the SCA does need to have these differing alternate titles, not
            just the simplified titles.

            Let's see if I've got it right this time:
            The rulers of a principality are rulers in that they aren't going to
            ascend to the throne and become king. Therefore they would take the
            princely title of
            Prinz/Prints/Princas/Princis
            (German/Estonian/Lithuanian/Latvian)

            However, a person who is in a kingdom and is first in line to become
            the next king has the princely title of
            Fürst/Vürst/Kunigaikštis/Firsts

            Once you have been a prince (I would assume of a principality), you
            take on the title of viscount, and once you have been a king you then
            become a count. If you are a count and become king again, once you
            have reigned you are a duke.

            So, if there were to be Lithuanian titles used, your two types of
            prince would be Princas and Kunigaikštis, and a duke would be known as
            Hercogas? (Not Kunigaikštis, because firstly that title is taken up
            by princes and secondly because for at least SCA purposes there is
            only one type of duke?)

            I'm trying to figure this out using the one paragraph under 'rank in
            the SCA' here: http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html

            Hopefully I'm not too confused,
            Asfridhr
            http://www.499angels.net/baltic/



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Chantal Osborne
            [Clip your posts. Moderator] Hey Man, You are so funny. I like how you try to talk and i think you are very ammusing. We should talk more often... mua Chantal
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 11, 2005
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              [Clip your posts. Moderator]

              Hey Man,
              You are so funny. I like how you try to talk and i think you are very ammusing. We should talk more often...
              mua
              Chantal Tatiana

              [Clip your posts. Moderator]
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