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Voshvy (was: "Letnik"?)

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  • Kseniia Smolnianina
    As far as I understand, voshva (singular) comes from the verb vshivat , which means to sew or stitch into. Dal defines vishivat as: Vshivat chto
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 11, 2005
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      As far as I understand, "voshva" (singular) comes from the verb
      "vshivat'," which means "to sew or stitch into." Dal' defines
      "vishivat'" as: "Vshivat' chto vo chto, vstavlyat' prishivaya," which
      translates to: "to sew something into something [else], to place by
      sewing [to]" (more or less - I'm sure a native speaker will correct
      me!).

      I've also seen this definition (from a Russian Orthodox glossary):

      Transliteration:
      "Dr. rus. - loskut ili byrezok dorogoi tkani, prishivaemyi dlya
      ukrasheniya k drugoi tkani."

      My translation:
      Anc. rus. - scrap or piece of expensive fabric, sewn to another fabric
      for decoration.

      And finally, from jargon.ru:

      Transliteration:
      "Voshva: Nazvanie proizoshlo ot glagola "vshivat'." Tak v
      dopetrovskoi Rusi nazyvali loskut aksamita, barkhata, tafty v vide
      chetyrekhugol'nika, kruga i pr., vyshityi zolotymi, serebryannymi,
      shelkovymi nityami, ukrashennyi drobnitsami, unizannyi zhemchugom i
      dragotsennymi kamen'yami. Prinadlezhnost' nekotorykh starinnykh
      russkikh odezhd, naprimer, letnika, rukava kotorogo ukrashalis'
      voshvami."

      My translation:
      Voshva: The name comes from the verb "to sew to." In pre-Petrine
      Rus' this is what they called a scrap of aksamite, velvet, taffeta in
      the shape of a square, circle, etc., embroidered with gold, silver,
      silk threads, decorated with plaques covered in pearls and precious
      stones. A characteristic of certain ancient Russian articles of
      clothing, for example, the letnik, the sleeves of which were decorated
      with "voshvy."

      Hope this helps, or at least sparks a discussion! I haven't been
      lucky enough to find a picture that matches this description, but I
      haven't actually looked very hard...

      --Kseniia
      (PS - please forgive my poor transliterations; I don't know the
      official transliterated alphabet...)

      On 11/11/05, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:
      > From my article on Kievan Russian Clothing:
      >
      > The Letnik
      > Letniki (from word for wings) were a light women's garment with long and wide sleeves ("nakapkami") that were left open along the bottom. They seem to have been worn beginning later in the period of Kievan Rus, or more properly appanage Rus under the Mongols, appearing in the costume of noble city-dwellers in the 14-15th centuries. The will of the Verejski and Beloozero Prince Mikhail Andreevich referred to his wife's dresses. They included letniki sewn of striped ob"yar, green and yellow kamki. Sleeves of letnikov were frequently embroidered "voshvami" - with striped aksamite, of black and crimson. (Pushkareva89) It was an outer layer to be worn over the rubakha/s, etc. Baroness Anastasia is wearing a letnik in the picture on the Russian knowledge pages. [snip]

      --
      **********************************
      Lady Kseniia Smolnianina
      Barony of Three Mountains
      Kingdom of An Tir
      *Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes*
    • Tim Nalley
      Ladies, This really is the next level, just outstanding! I ve been getting one heck of an education reading your posts between you all! I was wondering, would
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 12, 2005
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        Ladies,
        This really is the next level, just outstanding!
        I've been getting one heck of an education reading
        your posts between you all! I was wondering, would the
        right amount of flattery and introductory begging work
        on you all to do a joint article, albeit an
        inter-kingdom work?
        I'm thinking that a lot of folks would definitely
        benefit from your knowledge in SLOVO?????
        'dak
        "Opulence is not extravagence"

        --- Kseniia Smolnianina <kseniia@...> wrote:

        > As far as I understand, "voshva" (singular) comes
        > from the verb
        > "vshivat'," which means "to sew or stitch into."
        > Dal' defines
        > "vishivat'" as: "Vshivat' chto vo chto, vstavlyat'
        > prishivaya," which
        > translates to: "to sew something into something
        > [else], to place by
        > sewing [to]" (more or less - I'm sure a native
        > speaker will correct
        > me!).
        >
        > I've also seen this definition (from a Russian
        > Orthodox glossary):
        >
        > Transliteration:
        > "Dr. rus. - loskut ili byrezok dorogoi tkani,
        > prishivaemyi dlya
        > ukrasheniya k drugoi tkani."
        >
        > My translation:
        > Anc. rus. - scrap or piece of expensive fabric, sewn
        > to another fabric
        > for decoration.
        >
        > And finally, from jargon.ru:
        >
        > Transliteration:
        > "Voshva: Nazvanie proizoshlo ot glagola "vshivat'."
        > Tak v
        > dopetrovskoi Rusi nazyvali loskut aksamita,
        > barkhata, tafty v vide
        > chetyrekhugol'nika, kruga i pr., vyshityi zolotymi,
        > serebryannymi,
        > shelkovymi nityami, ukrashennyi drobnitsami,
        > unizannyi zhemchugom i
        > dragotsennymi kamen'yami. Prinadlezhnost'
        > nekotorykh starinnykh
        > russkikh odezhd, naprimer, letnika, rukava kotorogo
        > ukrashalis'
        > voshvami."
        >
        > My translation:
        > Voshva: The name comes from the verb "to sew to."
        > In pre-Petrine
        > Rus' this is what they called a scrap of aksamite,
        > velvet, taffeta in
        > the shape of a square, circle, etc., embroidered
        > with gold, silver,
        > silk threads, decorated with plaques covered in
        > pearls and precious
        > stones. A characteristic of certain ancient Russian
        > articles of
        > clothing, for example, the letnik, the sleeves of
        > which were decorated
        > with "voshvy."
        >
        > Hope this helps, or at least sparks a discussion! I
        > haven't been
        > lucky enough to find a picture that matches this
        > description, but I
        > haven't actually looked very hard...
        >
        > --Kseniia
        > (PS - please forgive my poor transliterations; I
        > don't know the
        > official transliterated alphabet...)
        >
        > On 11/11/05, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:
        > > From my article on Kievan Russian Clothing:
        > >
        > > The Letnik
        > > Letniki (from word for wings) were a light
        > women's garment with long and wide sleeves
        > ("nakapkami") that were left open along the bottom.
        > They seem to have been worn beginning later in the
        > period of Kievan Rus, or more properly appanage Rus
        > under the Mongols, appearing in the costume of noble
        > city-dwellers in the 14-15th centuries. The will of
        > the Verejski and Beloozero Prince Mikhail Andreevich
        > referred to his wife's dresses. They included
        > letniki sewn of striped ob"yar, green and yellow
        > kamki. Sleeves of letnikov were frequently
        > embroidered "voshvami" - with striped aksamite, of
        > black and crimson. (Pushkareva89) It was an outer
        > layer to be worn over the rubakha/s, etc. Baroness
        > Anastasia is wearing a letnik in the picture on the
        > Russian knowledge pages. [snip]
        >
        > --
        > **********************************
        > Lady Kseniia Smolnianina
        > Barony of Three Mountains
        > Kingdom of An Tir
        > *Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes*
        >




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      • Rick Orli
        Anyone take you up on this? I have been struggling with the skimpy evidence I have at hand. I have this sense that the letnik was typically closed-front in
        Message 3 of 6 , May 23 12:02 PM
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          Anyone take you up on this? I have been struggling with the skimpy
          evidence I have at hand. I have this sense that the letnik was
          typically closed-front in Poland&Ukraine in the 15th-17th C. and
          open with Voshvami and looser-shaped in Muscovi, and that peasant
          dress in Poland and ukraine was more likely to use Voshvami. But
          this is just my speculation based on a random sample of pictures I
          have seen. Anecdotal.

          Also, there seems to be some thing about Voshvami, or lack of it,
          that sets Commonwealth men's dress apart from some Muscovite men's
          dress, but I don't know by how much or in what quality, or what
          periods.

          If anyone has the answer, please share; if not this would be a
          useful conversation to continue. (the information was great!)
          -Rick

          :--- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ladies,
          > This really is the next level, just outstanding!
          > I've been getting one heck of an education reading
          > your posts between you all! I was wondering, would the
          > right amount of flattery and introductory begging work
          > on you all to do a joint article, albeit an
          > inter-kingdom work?
          > I'm thinking that a lot of folks would definitely
          > benefit from your knowledge in SLOVO?????
          > 'dak
          > "Opulence is not extravagence"
        • magdalenag56
          ... I did my own article and put it on my website at: matkamagdalena.tripod.com/ Click on letnik page, if you want pictures click on LETNIK PICTURES. This is
          Message 4 of 6 , May 24 6:41 AM
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            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...> wrote:
            >
            > Anyone take you up on this?

            I did my own article and put it on my website at:

            matkamagdalena.tripod.com/

            Click on letnik page, if you want pictures click on LETNIK PICTURES.
            This is my first effort at writing and setting up a website so it
            needs polishing. Feel free to send me suggestions. I also have not
            had time to add the sewing instructions but I have the hard copy
            ready to go when life gives me a break.

            There is also an excellent article in the Spring 2006 Slovo by Pan
            Zygmunt on dress of both Polish men and women. The women's section
            has good information on Polish letniks also.

            Magdalena Gdanska
          • Rick Orli
            Yes I saw your excellent article, but I want more! -Rick ... PICTURES.
            Message 5 of 6 , May 24 2:00 PM
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              Yes I saw your excellent article, but I want more!
              -Rick

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "magdalenag56" <magdalenag56@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Anyone take you up on this?
              >
              > I did my own article and put it on my website at:
              >
              > matkamagdalena.tripod.com/
              >
              > Click on letnik page, if you want pictures click on LETNIK
              PICTURES.
              > This is my first effort at writing and setting up a website so it
              > needs polishing. Feel free to send me suggestions. I also have not
              > had time to add the sewing instructions but I have the hard copy
              > ready to go when life gives me a break.
              >
              > There is also an excellent article in the Spring 2006 Slovo by Pan
              > Zygmunt on dress of both Polish men and women. The women's section
              > has good information on Polish letniks also.
              >
              > Magdalena Gdanska
              >
            • Lente
              I like the picture of you. Can t wait to see the sewing instructions. Really not nit picking but the renaissance tailor s website is spelled wrong, should be
              Message 6 of 6 , May 24 6:20 PM
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                I like the picture of you. Can't wait to see the sewing instructions. Really
                not nit picking but the renaissance tailor's website is spelled wrong,
                should be http://www.vertetsable.com/research_polish.htm
                just thought you would want to know.

                Kathws

                Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:41 AM
                Subject: [sig] Re: Letnik article, Pleeeeeeaaaassseee???????


                > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Anyone take you up on this?
                >
                > I did my own article and put it on my website at:
                >
                > matkamagdalena.tripod.com/
                >
                > Click on letnik page, if you want pictures click on LETNIK PICTURES.
                > This is my first effort at writing and setting up a website so it
                > needs polishing. Feel free to send me suggestions. I also have not
                > had time to add the sewing instructions but I have the hard copy
                > ready to go when life gives me a break.
                >
                > There is also an excellent article in the Spring 2006 Slovo by Pan
                > Zygmunt on dress of both Polish men and women. The women's section
                > has good information on Polish letniks also.
                >
                > Magdalena Gdanska
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