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Re: [sig] Russian boots

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  • jennifer knox
    Sent photo privately... anya James Liss wrote: Hello Due to a fire at my apartment complex I lost most of my garb. Speak
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 7, 2005
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      Sent photo privately...
      anya


      James Liss <houseofromanoff@...> wrote:
      Hello

      Due to a fire at my apartment complex I lost most of
      my garb.

      "Speak softly and carry a big stick" -- Teddy Roosevelt

      ---------------------------------
      Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
      Greetings! ... What part of period exactly? Pre-Mongol? 13-15 centuries? Muscovite realm times? That makes much - absence or presence of the heel, even the
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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        Greetings!

        > Due to a fire at my apartment complex I lost most of
        > my garb. I have been able to find drawings of
        > clothing items to replace those that were lost. I can
        > not find any drawings for Russian boots. I know that
        > they were usually around thigh height to just below

        What part of period exactly? Pre-Mongol? 13-15 centuries? Muscovite realm times?
        That makes much - absence or presence of the heel, even the difference between left and right boot (present in the boot patterns, maybe, in very late period or early OOP)

        AFAIK, they NEVER rose to the thigh. See the miniatures in the chronicles.

        > the knee. They were of red, blue or green leather or
        > velvet, were ornately decorated with seed pearls, had
        Only parade ones.
        > about a 1 1/2 to 2 inch heel and were square toed.
        Only in late period, no earlier than 15-16 century.
        Square toe, afair, appears rather late. Moderately sharp toe was characteristic of early boots, according to Novgorod archaeology finds and period drawings.

        bye,
        Alex
      • Tim Nalley
        Actually, left and right foot patterns are in evidence from the Novgorod dig archeological drawings. Also, the artifactual record seems to be lagging behind
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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          Actually, left and right foot patterns are in evidence
          from the Novgorod dig archeological drawings. Also,
          the artifactual record seems to be lagging behind the
          recording significantly at present so this boot debate
          is on really soft ground currently. Very fluid state
          of theory from what I can tell.
          'dok

          --- Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>
          wrote:

          >
          >
          > Greetings!
          >
          > > Due to a fire at my apartment complex I lost most
          > of
          > > my garb. I have been able to find drawings of
          > > clothing items to replace those that were lost. I
          > can
          > > not find any drawings for Russian boots. I know
          > that
          > > they were usually around thigh height to just
          > below
          >
          > What part of period exactly? Pre-Mongol? 13-15
          > centuries? Muscovite realm times?
          > That makes much - absence or presence of the heel,
          > even the difference between left and right boot
          > (present in the boot patterns, maybe, in very late
          > period or early OOP)
          >
          > AFAIK, they NEVER rose to the thigh. See the
          > miniatures in the chronicles.
          >
          > > the knee. They were of red, blue or green leather
          > or
          > > velvet, were ornately decorated with seed pearls,
          > had
          > Only parade ones.
          > > about a 1 1/2 to 2 inch heel and were square toed.
          > Only in late period, no earlier than 15-16 century.
          > Square toe, afair, appears rather late. Moderately
          > sharp toe was characteristic of early boots,
          > according to Novgorod archaeology finds and period
          > drawings.
          >
          > bye,
          > Alex
          >
          >
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        • Tim Nalley
          The only knee length boots were supposedly the Povlotsion kee extensions allegedly worn, as was also common among the Seljuk Turks as they emerged from the
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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            The only knee length boots were supposedly the
            Povlotsion kee extensions allegedly worn, as was also
            common among the Seljuk Turks as they emerged from the
            Pontic Steppe into Persia and western
            Anatolia....Alexey, what's your take on this?
            'dok

            --- Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>
            wrote:

            >
            >
            > Greetings!
            >
            > > Due to a fire at my apartment complex I lost most
            > of
            > > my garb. I have been able to find drawings of
            > > clothing items to replace those that were lost. I
            > can
            > > not find any drawings for Russian boots. I know
            > that
            > > they were usually around thigh height to just
            > below
            >
            > What part of period exactly? Pre-Mongol? 13-15
            > centuries? Muscovite realm times?
            > That makes much - absence or presence of the heel,
            > even the difference between left and right boot
            > (present in the boot patterns, maybe, in very late
            > period or early OOP)
            >
            > AFAIK, they NEVER rose to the thigh. See the
            > miniatures in the chronicles.
            >
            > > the knee. They were of red, blue or green leather
            > or
            > > velvet, were ornately decorated with seed pearls,
            > had
            > Only parade ones.
            > > about a 1 1/2 to 2 inch heel and were square toed.
            > Only in late period, no earlier than 15-16 century.
            > Square toe, afair, appears rather late. Moderately
            > sharp toe was characteristic of early boots,
            > according to Novgorod archaeology finds and period
            > drawings.
            >
            > bye,
            > Alex
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~-->
            > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
            > Yahoo! your home page
            >
            http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/LmiolB/TM
            >
            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
            Greetings! ... ????? Google does not know the word. what is it? ... Who knows... me - not. I rely on the miniatures in chronicles and on the archaeological
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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              Greetings!


              > The only knee length boots were supposedly the
              > Povlotsion kee extensions allegedly worn, as was also
              ?????
              Google does not know the word. what is it?

              > common among the Seljuk Turks as they emerged from the
              > Pontic Steppe into Persia and western
              > Anatolia....Alexey, what's your take on this?
              > 'dok

              Who knows... me - not. I rely on the miniatures in chronicles and on the archaeological finds. They make it like this: pre-mongol boots looked like the modern Tajik, etc soft boots - actually, leather socks, a little lower than the knee, usually up to the thickest part of the calf, i.e. ~2/3 of length up to the knee. They even did not make difference between left and right boot, as with the modern Valenki, simply wearing it to shape.

              If you are asking me of any knee-length boots, I simply do not know any. Steppe dwellers had something on their legs, but that ususally is treated as Nogovitsy, or leggings, in other words. So, if some knee-length leggings werer attached to shoes, making high boots, then this kind of footwear was worn in the Steppe long before teh Seljucks. For instance, such boots-or-leggings-with-shoes are seen on some Cuman Babas (to remain on the leg, those leather tubes were attached to the waist under the outer garment via soft leather belts). Leather leggings for horse-riding warriors are well documented for Ancient and medieval times in Eastern Turkestan (modern Tajikistan, east Kazakhstan and western China) and south Siberia. These are simply the regions I have plenty of material on; I never dug deep into by-Caspian Steppes material culture, as well as the Central Asia proper.

              Bye,
              Alex.
            • aldo
              [Clip your posts. Moderator] The correct word is Polovtsi but these nomadic people were better known as CUMANS and spoke Turkish but were blond and blueeyed
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 9, 2005
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                [Clip your posts. Moderator]

                The correct word is Polovtsi but these nomadic people were better known as
                CUMANS and spoke Turkish but were blond and blueeyed like the Russians (this
                is actually the meaning of Polovzi: Straw-color)
                Ciao


                [Clip your posts. Moderator]
              • aldo
                What do you mean by clipping my posts? Sorry but I do not understand. Thanks for explanation and instructions. ... From: aldo To:
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 9, 2005
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                  What do you mean by clipping my posts? Sorry but I do not understand. Thanks
                  for explanation and instructions.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "aldo" <turanomar@...>
                  To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 10:17 AM
                  Subject: Re: Re[2]: [sig] Russian boots


                  > [Clip your posts. Moderator]
                  >
                  > The correct word is Polovtsi but these nomadic people were better known as
                  > CUMANS and spoke Turkish but were blond and blueeyed like the Russians
                  (this
                  > is actually the meaning of Polovzi: Straw-color)
                  > Ciao
                  >
                  >
                  > [Clip your posts. Moderator]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • jennifer knox
                  hi! i have a photograph of 14th century boots from novgorod. they are childrens boots, but are an exact copy of what you see adult men wearing in contemporary
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 9, 2005
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                    hi! i have a photograph of 14th century boots from novgorod. they are childrens boots, but are an exact copy of what you see adult men wearing in contemporary art.
                    can people send attachments over the mailing list or do i have to upload it to the group page?
                    anya


                    Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...> wrote:


                    Greetings!


                    > The only knee length boots were supposedly the
                    > Povlotsion kee extensions allegedly worn, as was also
                    ?????
                    Google does not know the word. what is it?

                    > common among the Seljuk Turks as they emerged from the
                    > Pontic Steppe into Persia and western
                    > Anatolia....Alexey, what's your take on this?
                    > 'dok

                    Who knows... me - not. I rely on the miniatures in chronicles and on the archaeological finds. They make it like this: pre-mongol boots looked like the modern Tajik, etc soft boots - actually, leather socks, a little lower than the knee, usually up to the thickest part of the calf, i.e. ~2/3 of length up to the knee. They even did not make difference between left and right boot, as with the modern Valenki, simply wearing it to shape.

                    If you are asking me of any knee-length boots, I simply do not know any. Steppe dwellers had something on their legs, but that ususally is treated as Nogovitsy, or leggings, in other words. So, if some knee-length leggings werer attached to shoes, making high boots, then this kind of footwear was worn in the Steppe long before teh Seljucks. For instance, such boots-or-leggings-with-shoes are seen on some Cuman Babas (to remain on the leg, those leather tubes were attached to the waist under the outer garment via soft leather belts). Leather leggings for horse-riding warriors are well documented for Ancient and medieval times in Eastern Turkestan (modern Tajikistan, east Kazakhstan and western China) and south Siberia. These are simply the regions I have plenty of material on; I never dug deep into by-Caspian Steppes material culture, as well as the Central Asia proper.

                    Bye,
                    Alex.




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                    "Speak softly and carry a big stick" -- Teddy Roosevelt

                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
                    Greetings! ... The no less likely origin of the word is from Pole (Steppe), as they were steppe-dwellers. There were LOTS of blond nomads those times, to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 9, 2005
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                      Greetings!

                      >

                      > The correct word is Polovtsi but these nomadic people were better known as
                      > CUMANS and spoke Turkish but were blond and blueeyed like the Russians (this
                      > is actually the meaning of Polovzi: Straw-color)
                      The no less likely origin of the word is from Pole (Steppe), as they were steppe-dwellers. There were LOTS of blond nomads those times, to surprise Russians by blonde hair of the Cumans.


                      Bye,
                      Alex
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