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Re: [sig] Re: Re: Book: Kiev Rus, by B. Grekov - thoughts?

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  • Sfandra
    ... me - is stated as a scientific fact by Michael Krichton, the ... Here s an americanism for you, Alex: No shit, Sherlock. :D Crichton s apologia is in
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 7, 2005
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      > Actually, Ibn Fadlan <SNIP>. Their origins, pardon
      me - is stated as a scientific fact by Michael
      Krichton, the
      > same who wrote Jurassic Park, - his rather pulpy
      > fiction novel The Eaters of the Flesh (13th warrior
      > with Banderas is based on it) cites Ibn Fadlan for
      > pages, to make the reader believe that the
      > characters are really normans, of which there is
      > actually NO proof.

      Here's an americanism for you, Alex: "No shit,
      Sherlock." :D Crichton's apologia is in the author
      notes for "Eaters of the Dead". I'm rather offended
      that you for some unknown reason assumed that I was
      using a work of fiction as a reference, as if I didn't
      know the difference, rather than thinking I was
      attempting to create a brief summary based on acedemic
      sources. Clearly, if I am making an effort to read
      straight through this ponderous mass known as Grekov's
      "Kiev Rus", I am not a johnny-come-lately to the world
      of acedemic research.

      I WAS attempting to simply paraphrase the wikipedia
      article that was posted at the same time whole hog.


      I personally, as I said at the end of my email, have
      no thoughts or opinions or even support either the
      normanist or antinormanist argument, having not done
      enough research on the subject. Note the "As near as
      I can tell" at the beginning of my email.

      >Also, the fact that "Rus" for 12 century Russians
      >meant Kiev and
      >Chertnigov region, they could even say "He went to
      >the Rus" meaning a trip
      >from outer regions like Rostov, Novgorod, etc to
      >Kiev, Chernigov, Liubech, etc.

      Sources? Citations?

      >BTW, the idea of two antagonist theories just omits
      >something: the
      >legendary Riurik could be
      >neither a Slav nor a Scandinavian. In 9-10 century
      >the Slavs could have
      >called a warlord of Celtic origin, they still lived
      >in the south Baltic by then.

      Sources? Citations? Archeological references?

      Please, when you make these "correction" comments of
      yours, which come across as very definitive in tone,
      site some sources? Thanks.
      --Sfandra

      ******************
      Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
      Kingdom of the East
      ******************
      "Earth: The most dangerous place known to Man. Billions of humans have died there." --TarynEve, "Desert Isle" (ENTff)



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    • Tim Nalley
      Lets not let the endemic bickering of the Old World color this new world we are all creating, si vous plait. Michael Chriton is a hack genre writer, as is
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 7, 2005
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        Lets not let the endemic bickering of the Old
        World color this "new world" we are all creating, si
        vous plait. Michael Chriton is a hack genre writer, as
        is well known, so I doubt that anyone ever uses his
        works as any serious historical source, even on the
        tertiary level, outside entertainment. OTOH, works of
        modern entertainment often have a utility of shedding
        light on important, yet obscure bits of history that
        might otherwise be overlooked in the shadows of some
        of the historical "monolith" areas of discussion and
        research.......
        Back to the subject, is there a group that
        encompasses the middleground, sans political dogma,
        and takes the pragmatic approach of fairly rapid
        assimilation with trace influence in the already
        existant culture? I know of hardly any human culture
        at any point in history that hasn't been noticably
        affected by contact with other cultures, sometimes
        quite pervasively and enduringly.
        'dok





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