Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

belated intro

Expand Messages
  • Stephanie Ross
    Greetings!! Please allow me to introduce myself a little better than I did on my last post. I often get single-minded to the point of obsession when doing
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 11, 2005
      Greetings!! Please allow me to introduce myself a little better than I did on my last post. I often get single-minded to the point of obsession when doing research, and I realized that I didn't introduce myself very well while asking for help. I am Nadezhda Petrova Stoianova, a tenth century Kievan-Rus, descended from Vikings on my maternal grandmother's side and the Slavic peoples via my father. To that end, I believe that in my village I would have been known as Nadya Natashasdottir since my father died when I was very young. The best part about my persona and timeperiod is that it lets me wear Viking, Russian, Ukrainian and Eastern Roman fashions. I reside in Trimaris, where there is a dearth of Slavic personas. We have a Duchess who does very late period Russian, boyarina style, and I have an apprentice brother who is Hungarian. (Geta, we miss you! She does fabulous Romanian, and I still wear the poyas I bought from her almost 20 yrs ago). My Laurel wants me to start carrying documentation for my clothing because the Laurelate doesn't think it's period :(. Not that they'd know actually, so now it's up to me to educate them and prove that what I wear is period. I very much love peasant clothes from Moldovia/Rumania/Ukraine, and that's what I primarily wear. Not much of it is documentable pre-Petrine however. So consequently i am diving into doing research. I have dug up lots of info on a variety of things from _Rude and Barbarous Kingdom_ ed. by Lloyd E. Berry, which is what I'm currently reading. The book is a compilation of writings to Queen Elizabeth from her envoys to Russia during the time of Ivan IV. It is primary documentation and I am pulling out bits and pieces about clothes, food, furs and vodka, to be placed with citations for everyone's use in the files section (eventually). I know how impossible it can be to find documentation for Arts and Sciences fairs, and I am willing to share what I find. I also just received a book on Ukrainian costume history (praise god for Ebay) that would also have to be considered primary documentation since it is directly from Ukraine. I also have a couple of books in Ukrainian that discuss the history of embroidery back to the Middle Ages, but i can't read them yet. I will use a translation program and see what comes up, and then share it with you. I have been doing research in a vaccuum for so long, that I may talk all y'alls ears off!! Please forgive me if i get annoying. I have been digging for 20 years, and finally i am getting somewhere, and it's nice to share what I'm learning with people who actually CARE, and not just smile and nod politely because they love me :). My Laurel wants me to do a period piece for the next A&S, which is going to be Russian themed (ya think I might have had something to do with THAT? LOL). I was considering doing an icon cover. Unfortunately, all the research I have compiled deals with folk embroidery. I don't care much for the ecclesiastical stuff, so i didn't keep copies of much of it, but it is about all that's documentable for A&S. I really like the red velvet icon cover in Mary Gostelow's _Embroidery of All Russia_, but she doesn't give a date for it. So it's back to digging....

      YIS,
      Nadya


      "If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."
      - Jerrold Nadler

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sfandra
      ... Nadya -- Which book is it? --Sfandra Dmitrieva ****************** Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova Barony of Carolingia Kingdom of the East
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 13, 2005
        >. I also
        > just received a book on Ukrainian costume history
        > (praise god for Ebay) that would also have to be
        > considered primary documentation since it is
        > directly from Ukraine.

        Nadya --

        Which book is it?

        --Sfandra Dmitrieva

        ******************
        Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
        Barony of Carolingia
        Kingdom of the East
        ******************
        "Earth: The most dangerous place known to Man. Billions of humans have died there." --TarynEve, "Desert Isle" (ENTff)



        ____________________________________________________
        Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      • Tim Nalley
        Not necessarily, and this is where adopting a hard standard might well save you from an embarressing public retraction later on (something I ve actually
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 13, 2005
          Not necessarily, and this is where adopting a hard
          standard might well save you from an embarressing
          public retraction later on (something I've actually
          experienced doing this on my own studies!!!)
          Pictures and actual items are primary, with first
          hand correspondence in period a qualified primary or
          secondary( dependant on the writer's poss. personal
          prejudice). Academic books / articles are qualified
          secondary. All other drawings and writing citing
          secondary sources are tertiary. Its a hard standard
          but one that preserves the integrity of the research.
          Even so, I constantly revise my theories as new
          evidence surfaces each month out of Russia and Eastern
          Europe.....
          'dok
          --- Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:

          > >. I also
          > > just received a book on Ukrainian costume history
          > > (praise god for Ebay) that would also have to be
          > > considered primary documentation since it is
          > > directly from Ukraine.
          >
          > Nadya --
          >
          > Which book is it?
          >
          > --Sfandra Dmitrieva
          >
          > ******************
          > Sfandra Dmitrieva iz Chernigova
          > Barony of Carolingia
          > Kingdom of the East
          > ******************
          > "Earth: The most dangerous place known to Man.
          > Billions of humans have died there." --TarynEve,
          > "Desert Isle" (ENTff)
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________________________________________________
          > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
          > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        • Stephanie Ross
          OK, so it s NOT primary, but it is a good secondary with some good drawings and color pictures. It shows nothing in the interim between Rus and the 15th
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 13, 2005
            OK, so it's NOT primary, but it is a good secondary with some good drawings and color pictures. It shows nothing in the interim between Rus' and the 15th century however. The title in English is _History of Ukrainian Costume_ by Tamara Nikolaeva. It's definitely not as comprehensive as Yuri Tkach's _History of Ukrainian Costume_, but sometimes I think he takes a bit of creative license with his drawings if only because there aren't primaries cited. Tkach's book does show a lot of peasant wear as being period, which is why I like it. It has been the only costuming book in my possession until Nikolaeva's. Everything else is stuff I've pulled off the internet written by you guys, and bits gleaned from books here and there. I would love to get a good mental grip on what styles predominated where, and be able to compare and contrast Russian and Ukrainian dress during the Middle Ages. I just don't have the source material to do it.

            Nadya

            Nadya --

            Which book is it?

            --Sfandra Dmitrieva

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Susan Koziel
            I have the book: ²ñòîð³ÿ óêðà¿íñüêîãî êîñòþìà / History of Ukrainian Costume It s the one I was supposed to scan and post some pages
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 14, 2005
              I have the book:
              ²ñòîð³ÿ óêðà¿íñüêîãî êîñòþìà / History of Ukrainian
              Costume
              It's the one I was supposed to scan and post some
              pages from - and haven't had time to. It's the one I
              had posted the scanned coloured plates from a few
              month back.
              http://www.karchadm.com/krynycia/crafts.html
              :)
              -Kataryna

              --- Stephanie Ross <hlaislinn@...> wrote:

              > OK, so it's NOT primary, but it is a good secondary
              > with some good drawings and color pictures. It shows
              > nothing in the interim between Rus' and the 15th
              > century however. The title in English is _History of
              > Ukrainian Costume_ by Tamara Nikolaeva. It's
              > definitely not as comprehensive as Yuri Tkach's
              > _History of Ukrainian Costume_, but sometimes I
              > think he takes a bit of creative license with his
              > drawings if only because there aren't primaries
              > cited. Tkach's book does show a lot of peasant wear
              > as being period, which is why I like it. It has been
              > the only costuming book in my possession until
              > Nikolaeva's. Everything else is stuff I've pulled
              > off the internet written by you guys, and bits
              > gleaned from books here and there. I would love to
              > get a good mental grip on what styles predominated
              > where, and be able to compare and contrast Russian
              > and Ukrainian dress during the Middle Ages. I just
              > don't have the source material to do it.
              >
              > Nadya
              >
              > Nadya --
              >
              > Which book is it?
              >
              > --Sfandra Dmitrieva
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Doug Petroff
              Just a quibble, and please correct me if I m wrong, but personal correspondence being primary or secondary would depend if the person had viewed/ experienced
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 20, 2005
                Just a quibble, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but personal correspondence being primary or secondary would depend if the person had viewed/ experienced the event being researched. If they saw it, or were working with people who saw it, primary. If you were checking on how the event was viewed by people of a subsequent time period, it would be primary, but secondary for the event itself. (Think historiography and the secondary nature of textbooks)
                A bit confusing, but information of any form from an eyewitness will give some insight into what really happened (from their point of view) Using "possible prejudice" as a criteria would/ could negate any evidence, as it makes the individual reading a source the sole arbiter. (A historian with a marxist point of view could completely ignore all official Imperial court records due to the records bias against the people-just as an example, no disrespect intended).
                And just to roil the waters further, there is a grey area for translations, as each translator would, by the nature of the work, add a level of nuance that another translator may or may not agree with. (classic example: the Bible, or an English version of the Koran)
                As for my last penny, this is not a difficult criteria, it is the only criteria. An evolving, grey area-ed(?) morass. But if you want to talk like a historian, or provide good documentation for an A & S project, or avoid the "what do you know" snub that some find so popular, stick by the system. I too, have been through the grinder, hopefully you can avoid it. Good luck. Sergius


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.