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not as OT as you think: 1903 winter palace ball

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  • brattboy.rm
    Is there references to the tailors who helped with the designs of the costumes from the 1903 russian winter palace ball? The items in the musuem in which the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 17, 2005
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      Is there references to the tailors who helped with the designs of the
      costumes from the 1903 russian winter palace ball? The items in the
      musuem in which the designs were made (i understand there was help
      from the staff of the Hermitage)? What exact fabrics and
      embellishments were used? Where they trying to aim for correct period
      outfits or just to have fun during a special occasion?

      I was also wondering, if they boyers weren't popular at the time
      they're triyng to portray, why did they decide on that timeframe?

      thanks for ANY info on the matter
      Ashe'el
    • Tim Nalley
      Actually the Czar entrusted the director of the Hermitage with the design of the costumes and picked bits and pieces of authentic 17th C enbellishments from
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 18, 2005
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        Actually the Czar entrusted the director of the
        Hermitage with the design of the costumes and picked
        bits and pieces of authentic 17th C enbellishments
        from the collection fr his own costume. The reason for
        this time period is because much of the earlier
        artifacts had been either stolen by the poles during
        the time of Troubles, been burnt up in any of the
        frequebt fires that scourged Mascow periodically for
        centuries, or simply, had been used and re=used til it
        fell apart! Plus, Hicholas II had no political savvy
        and he was a romantic, at heart.
        'dok

        --- "brattboy.rm" <brattboy@...> wrote:

        > Is there references to the tailors who helped with
        > the designs of the
        > costumes from the 1903 russian winter palace ball?
        > The items in the
        > musuem in which the designs were made (i understand
        > there was help
        > from the staff of the Hermitage)? What exact
        > fabrics and
        > embellishments were used? Where they trying to aim
        > for correct period
        > outfits or just to have fun during a special
        > occasion?
        >
        > I was also wondering, if they boyers weren't popular
        > at the time
        > they're triyng to portray, why did they decide on
        > that timeframe?
        >
        > thanks for ANY info on the matter
        > Ashe'el
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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      • Lisa Kies
        X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP Ashe el, The way you write the boyers [sic] weren t popular at the time they re trying to
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 19, 2005
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          X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP

          Ashe'el,

          The way you write "the boyers [sic] weren't popular at the time they're trying
          to portray... " makes me think you may be slightly confused about the
          situation at that time. The nobility are never very popular with the lower
          classes. They are very popular with themselves. They are sometimes unpopular
          with their sovereign to the extent that they are perceived to be thwarting
          his/her plans.

          This later situation was the problem around the time of Ivan the Terrible. The
          tsar found the traditional noble class, called boyars, to be difficult to
          control completely. So Ivan killed off the most irritating boyars and created
          a "new" nobility, called dvoryanin, which consisted of a significant number of
          cooperative old "boyar" families, plus some new wealthy and compliant members.
          This new class of nobility depended more and more on the tsar and their
          personal service to him to maintain their rank, rather than long hereditary
          tradition and wealth.

          The noble class never went away, it just changed its name and the rules for
          joining it. So it would be reasonable for early 20th century Russian nobility
          to imitate their 17th century ancestors, if a bit anachronistic to use the
          term "boyar" to describe their efforts.

          In Service,
          Sofya la Rus

          Quoting "brattboy.rm" <brattboy@...>:

          > I was also wondering, if they boyers weren't popular at the time
          > they're triyng to portray, why did they decide on that timeframe?
          >
          > thanks for ANY info on the matter
          > Ashe'el





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        • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
          Greetings! ... Actually, they were just the trying to have a nahds-on study of the medieval history of Russia. In 1830s or 1840s the first (literally!) book
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 20, 2005
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            Greetings!

            > Is there references to the tailors who helped with the designs of the
            > costumes from the 1903 russian winter palace ball? The items in the
            > musuem in which the designs were made (i understand there was help
            > from the staff of the Hermitage)? What exact fabrics and
            > embellishments were used? Where they trying to aim for correct period
            > outfits or just to have fun during a special occasion?
            Actually, they were just the trying to have a "nahds-on study" of the medieval history of Russia. In 1830s or 1840s the first (literally!) book on the costume of the Old Rus was issued, it was written to help stage the opera "Ruslan and Liudmila", afair (I may confuse it with another folk-like story opera, but the occasion I am sure of: they were ready to stage an opera on the old Rus but did not know what it looked like at all). In several years, the first academic edition was issued: "Historical Review of the Costume of the Russian Army", by Viskovatov. The first volume, published in afair 1845, treated Old and Muscovite Rus. Though, yet by 1900 it proved to be totally stale, and the readers demanded the first volume to be completely re-written.

            By that time the Russian analog of Pre-Raffaelites etc history-interested artists circle emerged, Miriskusniks, from "Mir Iskusstva" (World of Art). They just created a myth of national history (heavily mixing fairytales motifs with the rare archaeological findings), to be clearly seen, say, in the works of Bilibin or Vasnetsov. As archaeology was only making its first steps, the Miriskusniks relied more on the Muscovite period (more remaining items in storage, in armories, etc) than on the Kievan one.

            So, the Ball relied upon the two sources: 1)heavily mythologized "bookworm history" they were building in late 1800s on the base of incomplete and amateur-written sources; 2) the remnants of the Moscow Kremlin storehouses of the tsar household. We often remember the Kremlin Armory and its arms and armor, but there were several more storage categories, with clothes, saddles, jewellery, etc (actually, in Ivan IV reign the Armory was converted into the storehouse of the gifts presented to the tsar). The Kremlin stores were damaged by the fire in 14-15 century (can't remember the exact date, but it destroyed everything belomginmg to 14 century or older), so the items in storage belonged to the last two centuries in period.

            >
            > I was also wondering, if they boyers weren't popular at the time
            > they're triyng to portray, why did they decide on that timeframe?

            Just that was the only period easy to visualize, to say nothing of the Miriskusniks that made their own image of national hictory, with personas from the Kievan 12-13 century Bylinas looking like the 17-century Muskovites. They were e x t r e m e l y popular then, and just THEY were the chief designers of the ball, I nearly forgot about it.

            Bye,
            Alex.
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