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7671Re[2]: [sig] a million rus questions

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin
    Jun 15, 2003
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      Greetings Jadwiga!

      Thursday, June 12, 2003, 10:11:01 PM, you wrote:

      >> > Given that there was a strong Scandinavian influence among the Rus at that
      >> > time, ... [snip]
      >>
      >> I would disagree on that.
      >> Could you please clarify what you consider "strong" Scandinavian influence
      >> among the Russians, and especially in the context of clothing. This appears
      >> as if the Russians' own clothing style or methods of making it was somehow
      >> inferior to that of Scandinavian immigrants', which I find hard to believe.

      jfn> *sigh* I'm not the original poster, but there's a very strong trend in
      jfn> historiography to believe that around the millenium the ruling class in
      jfn> Russia was Scandinavian, which would definitely lead to a very strong
      jfn> influence on the culture at that time!
      Oh my, Jadwiga, what the , ergm, historiography did you put ruling
      class's (argueable at least) origins and the popular clothes type into
      the same bowl? I can't imagine the picture Levi Strauss's garb being
      popular in, say, Florida several decades after the vere pattern was
      invented. No ruling class could greatly change the national costumes'
      pattern (even in decades or centuries) if it was completely different.
      They could change fashion but not the national costume.

      jfn> To say that there was a very strong influence of X on Y at a given time is
      jfn> not to say that the original Y is inferior-- consider the influence of
      jfn> modern American fashions on the fashion cultures of other countries. Ugly,
      jfn> badly made American clothes become popular as a fad even though they are
      jfn> inferior to what people would wear normally. I'm not sure where you get
      jfn> the implication of inferiority there.
      I'm sure he meant that he didn't believe those Russians borrowed the pattern
      and not invented it themselves or took from the common indo-european
      source of patterns.

      jfn> Or, for instance, consider the islamic minatures that portray famous
      jfn> islamic persons in Mongol garb, which were created when those islamic
      jfn> countries were under the rule of the Mongols.
      Yet one difference - the native ways and habits of sewing then & there
      suffered
      greatly from the invasion, as well as other craft, with ctaftsmen
      being either killed or enslaved. That helped accept anything even if
      those Mongols wore tangas. Russia didn't get that fate in pre-mongol
      times.



      --
      Bye,
      Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
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