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15707Re: [sig] FWD: [SCA-HRLDS] Lithuanian Names Again

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  • Patty
    Apr 26, 2012
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      *sigh* Sometimes I wish that, when heraldic customers want something out-of-the-ordinary that they didn't find in their local consulting herald's books, they actually provide their own documentation -- or at least tell us heralds where they got such ideas. I mean, did the gentle make up the byname because it looked Lithuanian to him, or is it the surname that Ellis Island mangled when one of his great-grandparents arrived in America?

      End of rant. Let me start with the first name, Frederick.

      "Frederick" is not really used as a given name in Lithuanian. On the website http://www.thelithuanians.com/names/name2e.html -- which is probably NOT acceptable as documentation by SCA heralds -- you can see there's no equivalent for Frederick, and "Fredas" is a short form of "Alfredas," which is Alfred. Polish might be a better bet -- the page http://polandpoland.com/common_polish_names.html lists "Fryderyk" as a Polish spelling, and one page from the Academy of St. Gabriel (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/walraven/polish/) lists "Fryderyk, Frydrych, Frydryk, Friderich, Friedrich" as Polish names derived from the German, Frankish or French.

      Now for that byname ... Vinslaoskis. When I Google that word, I get *nothing* but references to oscar.sca.org and the Meridies heraldic submissions tracker. which sends up a big red flag in my mind. That's why I asked about Ellis Island -- my immigrant grandfather ended up with a different surname from his older brother, who had preceded him in America.

      "Venslauskas" seems to be a plausible Lithuanian surname, and maybe "Vinslauskas" too. However, I have no idea whether those surnames existed before 1600. Searches on these names tend to produce links to LinkedIn, Facebook, Ancestry.com and site of that ilk. Again, it would really help to know where the submitter got this name in the first place.

      If the submitter wishes to start from scratch with a byname, one possible starting point might be looking at the names of Lithuanian nobility, such as the list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lithuanian_nobility, and then studying the naming conventions of the people born before 1600. Note that the College of Arms probably won't allow Radziwill as a byname because it's presumptive -- it's like naming your English persona Henry Tudor.

      Also, if the submitter wishes to pick Fryderyk as a given name, he may wish to find a way to Polonize the Lithuanian byname. For example, Ivan Olshansky, Jonas Alseniskis and Jan Holszanski are three different ways to refer to the same person, who died circa 1402.

      Another Lithuanian naming article I always recommend is http://www.lituanus.org/1982_3/82_3_01.htm. If you can get to an academic library, check out the listings at http://slavic.freeservers.com/biblio/names.html.

      Good luck,
      Lady Patricia of Trakai
      Drakkar Pursuivant, Barony of Storvik




      -----Original Message-----
      From: T Duran <sazabhadri@...>
      To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Apr 26, 2012 7:00 pm
      Subject: [sig] FWD: [SCA-HRLDS] Lithuanian Names Again


      Another plea for help from the Heralds list ! Can Asfridhr, Lady Patricia,
      or others help this gentle ?

      Kazimira


      ------------------------
      Recently there was a discussion on Lithuanian Names. I didn't pay too
      close attention, because it did not concern me at the time, and now I am
      looking at 2 submitters desiring Lithuanian Names. I will be covering 1
      now, because the submission is in process.

      Submitter desires a name similar to Frederick Vinslaoskis. He says that
      the byname is Lithuanian but no resources were available to check during
      the consultation. If this can be put together as a Lithuanian name, that
      would be great, and the submitter allows all changes necessary.
      Closest he got to documenting this was:

      Bahlow-Deutschesnamenlexikan gives Friedrich as a give name in German.
      And
      Wickenden, 3rd ed., p406 s.n. Vyshelav, gives Vintzlaus, 1234 as a
      masculine given name.

      Would it be possible to form a patronymic that comes near to the desired
      sound? Can any one offer some assistance?


      Your servant,
      Ld Antonio Alexandre Dias de Navarra
      Pennon


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