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Re: [shinlist] Digest Number 408

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  • Zohbu no kami Ku
    Jose, do you still practice Dzogchen or Mahamudra? Did you just give it up entirely? Rick, i was raised Presbyterian also, so i know what you re talking about.
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 8, 2004
      Jose, do you still practice Dzogchen or Mahamudra? Did you just give it up entirely? Rick, i was raised Presbyterian also, so i know what you're talking about. i just went to Presbyterian service today w/ my mom for the first time in a while, and it was... interesting.
         i don't post much on this list, though i created it. It's great to see that it's got such lively discussion still!
       
      Homage to Blazing Awareness,
      erick

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      There are 5 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads
      From: "Richard St. Clair"
      2. Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads
      From: "Jos�" Tirado
      3. Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads
      From: "Richard St. Clair"
      4. Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads
      From: "Jos�" Tirado
      5. Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads
      From: Clifton Ong


      ________________________________________________________________________
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      Message: 1
      Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:11:18 -0500
      From: "Richard St. Clair"
      Subject: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads

      >
      >If the Onenju has no efficacy for you then that is fine. However
      >please do not overlook the extremely deep significance it has for
      >others; which has nothing to do with cultural or historical piety
      >but everything to do with faith.
      >
      >Best wishes, gassho, Hozho

      I really seem to have stepped on a really sensitive point for several
      people on this list and I am sorry about my heavyhandedness. I guess
      I just don't "get" what onenju means to people. I was raised a
      Presbyterian, and Presbyterians are (or were) well known for removing all
      ornaments from churches and reducing services to a basic service
      as part of the Protestant Reformation against corrupt catholicism.
      Old habits die hard, even now that I am a Buddhist. The first thing
      that struck me about Buddhists was their preoccupation with all sorts
      of paraphernalia and rituals. I have accustomed myself to these, though
      it took me some time to do so. To me, onenju = rosary = catholic.
      Another thing Presbyterians taught me was to despise catholicism. I
      of course realize that it is not the same thing, but the association is
      there and it continues to bother me on a deep and inexplicable level.

      On a humorous note (which some may attach mystical significance to),
      when I was getting ready to go to sangha last weekend I couldn't find
      my onenju. I looked everywhere. So I had to borrow a spare set from
      another sangha member. I felt a little lost without it (ha!), so I guess
      it does have some unconscious significance for me as well. This
      morning I found my own set in my second backpack, which I was
      forced to use because I left my first backpack in a co-worker's car.
      These things are probably inscrutable, as is the compassion and light
      of Amida. But I suppose there is a lesson in this, if I wait long enough
      for it to dawn on me! (Please, folks, don't rub it in!)

      gassho,
      Rick
      (Shaku Egen)


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:31:04 -0800 (PST)
      From: "Jos�" Tirado
      Subject: Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads

      Hello Rick,
      I thank you for your graciousness in apologizing. It rubs out any thought of me rubbing in your awareness!
      It is an issue you are 100% right in saying has no fundamental importance to the development of your faith. But for many of us, it adorns the process with beauty and tangible meaning...
      �Nuff said...
      In gassho,
      Jos�
      (Shaku Kokai)




      "Thus, when one has boarded the ship of the Vow of great compassion and sailed out on the vast ocean of light, the winds of perfect virtue blow softly and the waves of evil are transformed. The darkness of ignorance is immediately broken through, and quickly reaching the land of immeasurable light, one realizes great nirvana and acts in accord with the virtue of Samantabhadra. Let this be known."
      --Shinran Shonin, KGSS II 72-78


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      Message: 3
      Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:42:54 -0500
      From: "Richard St. Clair"
      Subject: Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads

      dear Jos�,

      Thank you for appending this beautiful (no, *stunning*) quotation
      from Shinran. Even his "prose" is poetry. Is the translation from
      the Hongwanji Collected Works of Shinran? They did a great job
      translating (actually, I think Dennis Hirota did most of the work).

      gassho,
      Rick
      (Shaku Egen)

      >"Thus, when one has boarded the ship of the Vow of great compassion
      >and sailed out on the vast ocean of light, the winds of perfect
      >virtue blow softly and the waves of evil are transformed. The
      >darkness of ignorance is immediately broken through, and quickly
      >reaching the land of immeasurable light, one realizes great nirvana
      >and acts in accord with the virtue of Samantabhadra. Let this be
      >known."
      >--Shinran Shonin, KGSS II 72-78

      [This message contained attachments]



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      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:18:32 -0800 (PST)
      From: "Jos�" Tirado
      Subject: Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads

      Hi Rick,
      Yes its from the Collected Works online edition.
      It became my "signature" quite by (serendipitous?) accident.
      I chose my homyo, Kokai ("Ocean of Light") in honor of my late father who was a merchant marine for many, many years and from whom I get my intense love for the sound and expression of the ocean. I chose the name also for its mixture of images that rang true to my former study and practice of Dzogchen and Mahamudra. Then after Tokudo, I came home and one day dcided to type in the keywords ocean of light into Google, got directed to the Collected Works and found this most perfect of quotes that just sent me over the edge in joy (ocean pun unintended). Yes it is splendid and you are right, his writing soars on many an occasion.
      In gassho,
      Jose
      (Shaku Kokai)

      "Richard St. Clair" wrote:
      dear Jos�,


      Thank you for appending this beautiful (no, *stunning*) quotation from Shinran. Even his "prose" is poetry. Is the translation from the Hongwanji Collected Works of Shinran? They did a great job translating (actually, I think Dennis Hirota did most of the work).


      gassho,
      Rick
      (Shaku Egen)


      "Thus, when one has boarded the ship of the Vow of great compassion and sailed out on the vast ocean of light, the winds of perfect virtue blow softly and the waves of evil are transformed. The darkness of ignorance is immediately broken through, and quickly reaching the land of immeasurable light, one realizes great nirvana and acts in accord with the virtue of Samantabhadra. Let this be known."--Shinran Shonin, KGSS II 72-78
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      "Thus, when one has boarded the ship of the Vow of great compassion and sailed out on the vast ocean of light, the winds of perfect virtue blow softly and the waves of evil are transformed. The darkness of ignorance is immediately broken through, and quickly reaching the land of immeasurable light, one realizes great nirvana and acts in accord with the virtue of Samantabhadra. Let this be known."
      --Shinran Shonin, KGSS II 72-78


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      [This message contained attachments]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:55:00 -0800 (PST)
      From: Clifton Ong
      Subject: Re: Re: the Nenju and the Number of Beads

      Hahaha (just joking!). Glad you managed to find your
      own set in the end.
      Gassho,
      Clifton

      --- "Richard St. Clair" wrote:
      > >
      > >If the Onenju has no efficacy for you then that is
      > fine. However
      > >please do not overlook the extremely deep
      > significance it has for
      > >others; which has nothing to do with cultural or
      > historical piety
      > >but everything to do with faith.
      > >
      > >Best wishes, gassho, Hozho
      >
      > I really seem to have stepped on a really sensitive
      > point for several
      > people on this list and I am sorry about my
      > heavyhandedness. I guess
      > I just don't "get" what onenju means to people. I
      > was raised a
      > Presbyterian, and Presbyterians are (or were) well
      > known for removing all
      > ornaments from churches and reducing services to a
      > basic service
      > as part of the Protestant Reformation against
      > corrupt catholicism.
      > Old habits die hard, even now that I am a Buddhist.
      > The first thing
      > that struck me about Buddhists was their
      > preoccupation with all sorts
      > of paraphernalia and rituals. I have accustomed
      > myself to these, though
      > it took me some time to do so. To me, onenju =
      > rosary = catholic.
      > Another thing Presbyterians taught me was to despise
      > catholicism. I
      > of course realize that it is not the same thing, but
      > the association is
      > there and it continues to bother me on a deep and
      > inexplicable level.
      >
      > On a humorous note (which some may attach mystical
      > significance to),
      > when I was getting ready to go to sangha last
      > weekend I couldn't find
      > my onenju. I looked everywhere. So I had to borrow
      > a spare set from
      > another sangha member. I felt a little lost without
      > it (ha!), so I guess
      > it does have some unconscious significance for me as
      > well. This
      > morning I found my own set in my second backpack,
      > which I was
      > forced to use because I left my first backpack in a
      > co-worker's car.
      > These things are probably inscrutable, as is the
      > compassion and light
      > of Amida. But I suppose there is a lesson in this,
      > if I wait long enough
      > for it to dawn on me! (Please, folks, don't rub it
      > in!)
      >
      > gassho,
      > Rick
      > (Shaku Egen)
      >


      =====
      Gassho,
      Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)

      Email: sanath_sg@...

      Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/

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