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Re: onenju

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  • homitsu
    Richard and the other guy-So you re saying I should trust your opinions, opinions of people I ve never met and could be anybody, over those of a minister I
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 9, 2003
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      Richard and the other guy-So you're saying I should trust your
      opinions, opinions of people I've never met and could be anybody,
      over those of a minister I know and trust? You need to get away from
      the keyboard and learn some social skills. I was asking a question
      that had absolutely nothing to do with your opinion an everything to
      do with beginning a new part of my spiritual development. I know all
      about the history and don't need your reinterpretation of it. I'm
      remembering now why I unsubscribed to other lists now, thought I
      could avoid the usual unpleasantness-guess that was a mistake.
    • Richard St. Clair
      ... Dear chw: The other guy is Jim Davis, who has organized and led a Jodo Shinshu group in Missouri for many years. I value his opinions highly. No one was
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 9, 2003
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        > Richard and the other guy-So you're saying I should trust your
        >opinions, opinions of people I've never met and could be anybody,
        >over those of a minister I know and trust?>>

        Dear chw:

        The "other guy" is Jim Davis, who has organized and led a Jodo
        Shinshu group in Missouri for many years. I value his opinions
        highly.

        No one was asking you to trust my opinion. This is an electronic
        forum, and it is assumed people will express their opinions. Things
        can even get quite heated. It is expected that there will be
        disagreements from time to time. I do not believe I expressed my
        opinions in an egregious manner, though it has become clear that you
        were offended. I am glad you have a good relationship with a Shin
        minister. That can make all the difference.

        > You need to get away from
        >the keyboard and learn some social skills.

        Perhaps so. I think we can all stand some improvement in this area.

        > I was asking a question
        >that had absolutely nothing to do with your opinion an eve

        I am sorry if I offended you. Personally, *I* get impatient when
        people spend what I think is a lot of time worrying about
        formalities. But that's my problem.

        >I know all
        >about the history and don't need your reinterpretation of it.

        As I said, you can expect any variety of opinions to be stated on
        this forum. I did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings. I didn't
        realize you were so well versed in Shinshu history. The nature of
        your question led me to believe otherwise. I merely wished to divert
        your attention from formalities to spiritualities. I now see that
        was a mistake.

        >I'm
        >remembering now why I unsubscribed to other lists now, thought I
        >could avoid the usual unpleasantness-guess that was a mistake.

        Unpleasantness is in the eye of the beholder. Again, I am sorry if I
        caused you discomfort. Perhaps electronic forums are not the way for
        you to go if you are sensitive to opinions contrary to your own.

        gassho,
        Rick

        >
        >
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      • hpl_fan
        ... from ... to ... all ... homistsu, I m afraid that you need to calm down and see the reality of the situation. I was offended myself at Richard s initial
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 9, 2003
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          --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "homitsu" <homitsu@s...> wrote:
          > Richard and the other guy-So you're saying I should trust your
          > opinions, opinions of people I've never met and could be anybody,
          > over those of a minister I know and trust? You need to get away
          from
          > the keyboard and learn some social skills. I was asking a question
          > that had absolutely nothing to do with your opinion an everything
          to
          > do with beginning a new part of my spiritual development. I know
          all
          > about the history and don't need your reinterpretation of it. I'm
          > remembering now why I unsubscribed to other lists now, thought I
          > could avoid the usual unpleasantness-guess that was a mistake.

          homistsu, I'm afraid that you need to calm down and see the reality
          of the situation. I was offended myself at Richard's initial
          repsponse as o-nenju are an important part of my personal practice.
          But it is not because they provide some ritual for me, but rather
          that they provide me with a reminder of diffent aspects of the
          Dharma, all of which remind me to be more mindfull in my hearing the
          Amida's infinite light. Richard was reacting to the concept of
          ritualized approaches to the Dharma, not to your personal practice.
          I think both side of this could have been more compasionate and
          constructive.

          As to the original question that started all of this, there are
          several traditional forms of o-juzu but o-nenju are for your
          personal connection to the Amida. Ask the Amida what form your
          practice should take, given an understanding of what has come
          before. I think we can all benefit from that approach.
        • Doreen Kamada-Fujii
          ... on ... *looks at the other replies, and blinks* Wow. Ummmm... Quite honestly, I don t think there IS a usual number of beads for what I ve seen called
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 9, 2003
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            --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "homitsu" <homitsu@s...> wrote:
            > Hi-I'm familiar with Buddhist malas in general but am seeking info
            on
            > the Shin kind: how many beads does one usually have? Any special
            > length? Any info would be gratefully received-thanks-chw

            *looks at the other replies, and blinks* Wow. Ummmm...

            Quite honestly, I don't think there IS a 'usual' number of beads for
            what I've seen called the 'half' ojuzu, which is what I generally see
            at BCA temples. The number of beads in addition to the oyadama
            (large bead with three holes) and two side beads more depends on the
            _size_ of the beads used, and how large the ojuzu needs to be to
            complete the circle around the user's hands; I'm sure if I was to
            gather up all the ojuzu in the house, I'd find different numbers of
            beads in each of them, depending upon if it's a woman's, man's, or
            child's ojuzu.

            When you get into the elastic wrist ojuzu, that clouds the issue even
            more: the one I wear all the time has a long oyadama bead with the
            kanji characters for 'namuamidabutsu', two 'side' beads, and
            11 'other' beads interspersed between them.

            I'd have to say that other than the 'basic' form: oyadama and two
            side/parent beads...the number of 'other' beads really doesn't
            matter, but just depends upon size of bead and finished ojuzu. After
            all, our DS kids make these all the time as craft projects, and those
            are just as often 'used' as ones we buy :)

            Hope this helps :)

            Gassho,
            Doreen/Shaku ni Myo Jun
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