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Re: [shinlist] how about initiation ceremonies?

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  • Ray Shepard
    Greetings, C lifton (and all): I can readily understand the reasons one should be an official member of a Shinshu congregation . However there are none within
    Message 1 of 11 , May 16, 2002
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      Greetings, C lifton (and all):

      I can readily understand the "reasons one should be an official member of a Shinshu congregation".  However there are none within access to my location.  I rarely drive (just do not like to unless under necessity); I walk or take public transportation.  The closest congregation I am aware of is in Boston, and the ability to get there is nil.  Also the time is just plain inconvenient, as I conduct classes in evenings.  This is the primary reason I so cherish Shinlist and other Pure Land groups.  I have access to teachings, recommended books, and insights from other practitioners.

      In Nembutsu;

      Ray S

      ----Original Message Follows----
      From: Clifton Ong
      Reply-To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
      To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [shinlist] how about initiation ceremonies?
      Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:06:31 -0700 (PDT)
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      Hi -A,
      yes i really liked the `River of Fire, River of
      Water`, i was reading a little of the `Gospel` but had
      to return to the university libary as it was overdue,
      can`t borrow it until later.
      In a sense, Conversion here means when we really know
      ourselves as poor lowly beings (bonpu), we have a
      turn-of-heart (Denshin) and Entrust ourselves to the
      Power of Amida Buddha`s Primal Vow.
      Well, in terms of ceremony, i am not sure but maybe
      the Kikyoshiki or Refuge Ceremony could be considered
      a conversion ceremony? That is when you officially
      state that you wish to become a member of the Nenbutsu
      community.
      There are reasons why one should be an official member
      of a Shinshu congregation, but one of the few reasons
      i personally think is that the temples/churches will
      be able to nurture you in the Nenbutsu as it is a
      place to `Monpo` - hear the Dharma, which is very
      central in Shin Buddhism.
      Gassho,
      Clifton
      --- now@... wrote:
      > thanks to all for the response to the question about
      >
      > wording of the nembutsu, how about initiation
      > ceremonies? I recently reread "River of Fire..."
      > and
      > "Shinran's Gospel of Pure Grace" and got the
      > impression
      > conversion might be considered a particularly
      > significant
      > event which might also be symbolically noted in a
      > ceremony in Jodo Shinshu. Any truth to that? Is
      > such a
      > ceremony necessary? Is there a reason to be an
      > official
      > member of a Shinshu organization?
      >
      > thanks again to all,
      >
      > -A
      >
      =====
      Gassho,
      Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)
      Email: sanath_sg@...
      Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/
      __________________________________________________
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    • Clifton Ong
      Hi Ray, why don`t you try joining the BCA`s outreach membership or the Honpa Honganji Mission of Hawaii`s cybersangha? I think they will both provide wonderful
      Message 2 of 11 , May 17, 2002
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        Hi Ray,
        why don`t you try joining the BCA`s outreach
        membership or the Honpa Honganji Mission of Hawaii`s
        cybersangha? I think they will both provide wonderful
        companionship.
        Try contacting both of them.
        Gassho,
        Clifton

        --- Ray Shepard <gaian41@...> wrote:

        <HR>
        <html>

        <div style='background-color:'><DIV>
        <P>Greetings, C lifton (and all):</P>
        <P>I can readily understand the "reasons one should be
        an official member of a Shinshu congregation". 
        However there are none within access to my
        location.  I rarely drive (just do not like to
        unless under necessity); I walk or take public
        transportation.  The closest congregation I am
        aware of is in Boston, and the ability to get there is
        nil.  Also the time is just plain inconvenient,
        as I conduct classes in evenings.  This is the
        primary reason I so cherish Shinlist and other Pure
        Land groups.  I have access to teachings,
        recommended books, and insights from other
        practitioners.</P>
        <P>In Nembutsu;</P>
        <P>Ray S<BR><BR></P></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>----Original Message Follows----
        <DIV></DIV>From: Clifton Ong <SANATH_SG@...>
        <DIV></DIV>Reply-To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
        <DIV></DIV>To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
        <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [shinlist] how about
        initiation ceremonies?
        <DIV></DIV>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:06:31 -0700 (PDT)

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        <3cd6d81e.33b7.0@...>
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        shinlist@yahoogroups.com; contact
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        07:07:37.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DDDF1D0:01C1F7F1]
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>Hi -A,
        <DIV></DIV>yes i really liked the `River of Fire,
        River of
        <DIV></DIV>Water`, i was reading a little of the
        `Gospel` but had
        <DIV></DIV>to return to the university libary as it
        was overdue,
        <DIV></DIV>can`t borrow it until later.
        <DIV></DIV>In a sense, Conversion here means when we
        really know
        <DIV></DIV>ourselves as poor lowly beings (bonpu), we
        have a
        <DIV></DIV>turn-of-heart (Denshin) and Entrust
        ourselves to the
        <DIV></DIV>Power of Amida Buddha`s Primal Vow.
        <DIV></DIV>Well, in terms of ceremony, i am not sure
        but maybe
        <DIV></DIV>the Kikyoshiki or Refuge Ceremony could be
        considered
        <DIV></DIV>a conversion ceremony? That is when you
        officially
        <DIV></DIV>state that you wish to become a member of
        the Nenbutsu
        <DIV></DIV>community.
        <DIV></DIV>There are reasons why one should be an
        official member
        <DIV></DIV>of a Shinshu congregation, but one of the
        few reasons
        <DIV></DIV>i personally think is that the
        temples/churches will
        <DIV></DIV>be able to nurture you in the Nenbutsu as
        it is a
        <DIV></DIV>place to `Monpo` - hear the Dharma, which
        is very
        <DIV></DIV>central in Shin Buddhism.
        <DIV></DIV>Gassho,
        <DIV></DIV>Clifton
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>--- now@... wrote:
        <DIV></DIV>> thanks to all for the response to the
        question about
        <DIV></DIV>>
        <DIV></DIV>> wording of the nembutsu, how about
        initiation
        <DIV></DIV>> ceremonies? I recently reread "River
        of Fire..."
        <DIV></DIV>> and
        <DIV></DIV>> "Shinran's Gospel of Pure Grace" and
        got the
        <DIV></DIV>> impression
        <DIV></DIV>> conversion might be considered a
        particularly
        <DIV></DIV>> significant
        <DIV></DIV>> event which might also be symbolically
        noted in a
        <DIV></DIV>> ceremony in Jodo Shinshu. Any truth to
        that? Is
        <DIV></DIV>> such a
        <DIV></DIV>> ceremony necessary? Is there a reason
        to be an
        <DIV></DIV>> official
        <DIV></DIV>> member of a Shinshu organization?
        <DIV></DIV>>
        <DIV></DIV>> thanks again to all,
        <DIV></DIV>>
        <DIV></DIV>> -A
        <DIV></DIV>>
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>=====
        <DIV></DIV>Gassho,
        <DIV></DIV>Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>Email: sanath_sg@...
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/
        <DIV></DIV>
        <DIV></DIV>__________________________________________________

        <DIV></DIV>Do You Yahoo!?
        <DIV></DIV>Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!

        <DIV></DIV>http://shopping.yahoo.com
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        =====
        Gassho,
        Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)

        Email: sanath_sg@...

        Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/

        __________________________________________________
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      • Ray Shepard
        Clifton: Thank you for the information. As usual, you are ready with advice and support on the Path of the Shin tradition. I will attempt to contact your
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 8, 2002
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          Clifton:

          Thank you for the information.  As usual, you are ready with advice and support on the Path of the Shin tradition.  I will attempt to contact your suggested groups, but I wonder how they can help, as I live in Rhode Island?  California and Hawaii are awfully far to walk, and i'm not aware of readily-available public transportation to either spot.   ;-)

          Could you perhaps provide me with contact information? (addresses, web-site contact, etc...)?

          Gassho;

          Ray S.

          ----Original Message Follows----
          From: Clifton Ong
          Reply-To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
          To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [shinlist] how about initiation ceremonies?
          Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
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          Hi Ray,
          why don`t you try joining the BCA`s outreach
          membership or the Honpa Honganji Mission of Hawaii`s
          cybersangha? I think they will both provide wonderful
          companionship.
          Try contacting both of them.
          Gassho,
          Clifton
          --- Ray Shepard wrote:

          Greetings, C lifton (and all):

          I can readily understand the "reasons one should be

          an official member of a Shinshu congregation". 
          However there are none within access to my
          location.  I rarely drive (just do not like to
          unless under necessity); I walk or take public
          transportation.  The closest congregation I am
          aware of is in Boston, and the ability to get there is
          nil.  Also the time is just plain inconvenient,
          as I conduct classes in evenings.  This is the
          primary reason I so cherish Shinlist and other Pure
          Land groups.  I have access to teachings,
          recommended books, and insights from other
          practitioners.

          In Nembutsu;

          Ray S

          ----Original Message Follows----
          From: Clifton Ong
          Reply-To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
          To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [shinlist] how about
          initiation ceremonies?
          Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:06:31 -0700 (PDT)
          MIME-Version: 1.0
          Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com
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          Hi -A,
          yes i really liked the `River of Fire,
          River of
          Water`, i was reading a little of the
          `Gospel` but had
          to return to the university libary as it
          was overdue,
          can`t borrow it until later.
          In a sense, Conversion here means when we
          really know
          ourselves as poor lowly beings (bonpu), we
          have a
          turn-of-heart (Denshin) and Entrust
          ourselves to the
          Power of Amida Buddha`s Primal Vow.
          Well, in terms of ceremony, i am not sure
          but maybe
          the Kikyoshiki or Refuge Ceremony could be
          considered
          a conversion ceremony? That is when you
          officially
          state that you wish to become a member of
          the Nenbutsu
          community.
          There are reasons why one should be an
          official member
          of a Shinshu congregation, but one of the
          few reasons
          i personally think is that the
          temples/churches will
          be able to nurture you in the Nenbutsu as
          it is a
          place to `Monpo` - hear the Dharma, which
          is very
          central in Shin Buddhism.
          Gassho,
          Clifton
          --- now@... wrote:
          > thanks to all for the response to the
          question about
          >
          > wording of the nembutsu, how about
          initiation
          > ceremonies? I recently reread "River
          of Fire..."
          > and
          > "Shinran's Gospel of Pure Grace" and
          got the
          > impression
          > conversion might be considered a
          particularly
          > significant
          > event which might also be symbolically
          noted in a
          > ceremony in Jodo Shinshu. Any truth to
          that? Is
          > such a
          > ceremony necessary? Is there a reason
          to be an
          > official
          > member of a Shinshu organization?
          >
          > thanks again to all,
          >
          > -A
          >
          =====
          Gassho,
          Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)
          Email: sanath_sg@...
          Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/
          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
          http://shopping.yahoo.com

          clear=all>
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          .

          =====
          Gassho,
          Clifton Ong (Shaku Do Tatsu)
          Email: sanath_sg@...
          Homepage: http://honganmission.cjb.net/
          __________________________________________________
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