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  • landmarkcommand
    Namu-Amida-Butsu Is the U in namu pronounced with a LONG U as in mute or a short U as in must ? Does every school of Pureland Buddhism use the same
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 15, 2006
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      "Namu-Amida-Butsu"
      Is the "U" in 'namu' pronounced with a LONG U as in "mute" or a short
      U as in "must"?

      Does every school of Pureland Buddhism use the same mantra?
      I have read somewhere that "ah mi tuo fo" as best as I can recall it,
      is also a mantra used, please correct if not true.

      Also I read that DT Suzuki the dean of Zen scholars, towards the end
      of his life became a Pureland Buddhist, abandoning Zen, that is quite
      an endorsement.
    • Aaron (Joushin) Boone
      L.M.C, I have heard both Namu & Namo both fully sounded vowels. Namo Amito Fo is a Chinese varriant. And the Nembutsu is not a mantra per say but....I am not
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 15, 2006
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        L.M.C,
        I have heard both Namu & Namo both fully sounded vowels. Namo Amito Fo is a Chinese varriant. And the Nembutsu is not a "mantra" per say but....I am not well versed enough to explain except that it is an expression of grattitude. It has no "powers" like a Mantra, it doesn't "gain" any special abilities in that fashion.
         
        I hope that helped a little.
         
        Gassho
        Aaron (Shaku Joushin)

        landmarkcommand <landmarkcommand@...> wrote:
        "Namu-Amida- Butsu"
        Is the "U" in 'namu' pronounced with a LONG U as in "mute" or a short
        U as in "must"?

        Does every school of Pureland Buddhism use the same mantra?
        I have read somewhere that "ah mi tuo fo" as best as I can recall it,
        is also a mantra used, please correct if not true.

        Also I read that DT Suzuki the dean of Zen scholars, towards the end
        of his life became a Pureland Buddhist, abandoning Zen, that is quite
        an endorsement.




        The Primal Vow was established out of deep compassion for us who cannot become freed from the bondage of birth-and-death through any religious practice, due to the abundance of blind passion. Since its basic intention is to effect the enlightenment of such an evil one, the evil person who is led to true entrusting by Other Power is the person who attains birth in the Pure Land. Thus, even the good person attains birth, how much more so the evil person!

        Shinran Shonin

        __________________________________________________
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      • chris marbutt
        ... This might be of interest. Just click and play the sound file and follow along. It certainly helped my pronunciation:
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 15, 2006
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          >"Namu-Amida-Butsu"
          >Is the "U" in 'namu' pronounced with a LONG U as in "mute" or a short
          >U as in "must"?

          This might be of interest.  Just click and play the sound file and follow along.  It certainly helped my pronunciation:
          http://www.rrhi.com/bsc/audio_files/texts/juseige.html

          >I have read somewhere that "ah mi tuo fo" as best as I can recall it,
          >is also a mantra used, please correct if not true.

          "Namo Amituofo" is the Chinese version I believe.   Of the Chinese I've spoken with, the more learned speakers pronounce the 'uo' as the 'wa' in water or war.  Others I've spoken to have treated it as a more or less silent letter.  "Namu Amida Butsu" is specifically Japanese.  "Namo Amitabha Buddha" is Sanskrit or Pali.  In Korean it is "Namu Amitabul".

          Hope this helps a little.  Wish I could provide more info, but newbie here myself.

          Chris


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        • landmarkcommand
          My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the time and trouble to answer my queries. It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 16, 2006
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            My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the time and
            trouble to answer my queries.
            It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a very
            simple practice and yet of a depth of complexity that might also
            intimidate if I thought about it too much. Very glad that there are
            people, both veterans and newer, who are here to help the seeker.

            Thanks again.
          • Aaron (Joushin) Boone
            Truer words were not spoken LMC. It is indeed both so simple and yet so deep it can make your head hurt. I am trying to muddle through but thankfully there
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 16, 2006
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              Truer words were not spoken LMC.
              It is indeed both so simple and yet so deep it can make your head hurt.  I am trying to muddle through but thankfully there isn't an exam. Well it's an easy one, it's "Namu Amida Butsu".
               
              Gassho,
              Aaron (Shaku-Joushin)

              landmarkcommand <landmarkcommand@...> wrote:
              My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the time and
              trouble to answer my queries.
              It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a very
              simple practice and yet of a depth of complexity that might also
              intimidate if I thought about it too much. Very glad that there are
              people, both veterans and newer, who are here to help the seeker.

              Thanks again.




              The Primal Vow was established out of deep compassion for us who cannot become freed from the bondage of birth-and-death through any religious practice, due to the abundance of blind passion. Since its basic intention is to effect the enlightenment of such an evil one, the evil person who is led to true entrusting by Other Power is the person who attains birth in the Pure Land. Thus, even the good person attains birth, how much more so the evil person!

              Shinran Shonin

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

            • lotusaware
              Have you seen the latest issue of Tricycle Magazine? It includes an interview with Socho (Bishop) Ogui of the BCA. He is very clear and his answers are both
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 17, 2006
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                Have you seen the latest issue of Tricycle Magazine?
                It includes an interview with Socho (Bishop) Ogui of the BCA. He is
                very clear and his answers are both cogent and helpful.

                Forgive my poor interpretation; if I have misquoted the error is mine.

                Among other things he offers a distinction between

                "self-power" and "Other-Power" and then distinguishes them

                with "Absolute Other Power" in which the distinction of "self" and
                "Other" disappears.

                He also offers a clarification about the position of Jodo Shin Shu
                over the subject of meditation. He points out that meditating is a
                natural activity of life and when treated as such is no different than
                any other part of life - so there is no problem. However if one is
                seeking "merit" or is meditating because it will lead to a result this
                it is not recommended. He also puts this subject in its historical
                context and feels that circumstances have changed which makes the
                issue a non-issue.

                Remember this is the man for whom "Namu Amida Butsu" is one answer,
                and having a good game of golf is another!

                Shaku Renjo (John)


                --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron \(Joushin\) Boone"
                <shoren108@...> wrote:
                >
                > Truer words were not spoken LMC.
                > It is indeed both so simple and yet so deep it can make your head
                hurt. I am trying to muddle through but thankfully there isn't an
                exam. Well it's an easy one, it's "Namu Amida Butsu".
                >
                > Gassho,
                > Aaron (Shaku-Joushin)
                >
                > landmarkcommand <landmarkcommand@...> wrote:
                > My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the
                time and
                > trouble to answer my queries.
                > It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a very
                > simple practice and yet of a depth of complexity that might also
                > intimidate if I thought about it too much. Very glad that there are
                > people, both veterans and newer, who are here to help the seeker.
                >
                > Thanks again.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The Primal Vow was established out of deep compassion for us who
                cannot become freed from the bondage of birth-and-death through any
                religious practice, due to the abundance of blind passion. Since its
                basic intention is to effect the enlightenment of such an evil one,
                the evil person who is led to true entrusting by Other Power is the
                person who attains birth in the Pure Land. Thus, even the good person
                attains birth, how much more so the evil person!
                >
                > Shinran Shonin
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                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
              • Jay
                Shaku Renjo, I read the article and loved it. In fact, I have read it several times. Personally I am happy to see a move among many Shin Buddhists to finding
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 17, 2006
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                  Shaku Renjo,
                   
                  I read the article and loved it.  In fact, I have read it several times.  Personally I am happy to see a move among many Shin Buddhists to finding room for meditation, not as a goal for enlightenment but an activity like any other activity.
                   
                  I am Jason, and am new to the list.  Howdy everyone.
                   
                  Jason



                  Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -Martin Luther King Jr.


                  Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today!
                • John
                  Yes, a good article,, also, note the recent one in the NY Times - In gassho, Acala (John) ... From: lotusaware To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 18, 2006
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                    Yes, a good article,, also, note the recent one in the NY Times - In gassho, Acala (John)
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:39 PM
                    Subject: [shinlist] Re: Questions

                    Have you seen the latest issue of Tricycle Magazine?
                    It includes an interview with Socho (Bishop) Ogui of the BCA. He is
                    very clear and his answers are both cogent and helpful.

                    Forgive my poor interpretation; if I have misquoted the error is mine.

                    Among other things he offers a distinction between

                    "self-power" and "Other-Power" and then distinguishes them

                    with "Absolute Other Power" in which the distinction of "self" and
                    "Other" disappears.

                    He also offers a clarification about the position of Jodo Shin Shu
                    over the subject of meditation. He points out that meditating is a
                    natural activity of life and when treated as such is no different than
                    any other part of life - so there is no problem. However if one is
                    seeking "merit" or is meditating because it will lead to a result this
                    it is not recommended. He also puts this subject in its historical
                    context and feels that circumstances have changed which makes the
                    issue a non-issue.

                    Remember this is the man for whom "Namu Amida Butsu" is one answer,
                    and having a good game of golf is another!

                    Shaku Renjo (John)

                    --- In shinlist@yahoogroup s.com, "Aaron \(Joushin\) Boone"
                    <shoren108@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > Truer words were not spoken LMC.
                    > It is indeed both so simple and yet so deep it can make your head
                    hurt. I am trying to muddle through but thankfully there isn't an
                    exam. Well it's an easy one, it's "Namu Amida Butsu".
                    >
                    > Gassho,
                    > Aaron (Shaku-Joushin)
                    >
                    > landmarkcommand <landmarkcommand@ ...> wrote:
                    > My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the
                    time and
                    > trouble to answer my queries.
                    > It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a very
                    > simple practice and yet of a depth of complexity that might also
                    > intimidate if I thought about it too much. Very glad that there are
                    > people, both veterans and newer, who are here to help the seeker.
                    >
                    > Thanks again.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Primal Vow was established out of deep compassion for us who
                    cannot become freed from the bondage of birth-and-death through any
                    religious practice, due to the abundance of blind passion. Since its
                    basic intention is to effect the enlightenment of such an evil one,
                    the evil person who is led to true entrusting by Other Power is the
                    person who attains birth in the Pure Land. Thus, even the good person
                    attains birth, how much more so the evil person!
                    >
                    > Shinran Shonin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    >

                  • --Michael
                    It was good, wasn t it? Tricycle has been rightly criticized for not featuring more articles on Shin or Pure Land. AFAIK, the magazine has published less than
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 18, 2006
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                      It was good, wasn't it?

                      Tricycle has been rightly criticized for not featuring more articles on
                      Shin or Pure Land. AFAIK, the magazine has published less than a
                      handful in its entire history. Hmph.

                      Welcome, Jason.


                      --Michael


                      --- Jay <darkraine112@...> wrote:

                      > Shaku Renjo,
                      >
                      > I read the article and loved it. In fact, I have read it several
                      > times. Personally I am happy to see a move among many Shin Buddhists
                      > to finding room for meditation, not as a goal for enlightenment but
                      > an activity like any other activity.
                      >
                      > I am Jason, and am new to the list. Howdy everyone.
                      >
                      > Jason
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -Martin Luther
                      > King Jr.
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Football �06 - Go with the leader. Start your
                      > league today!


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • --Michael
                      Do you have a link or an abstract or search phrase (Ogui?) for the NY Times article? Thansk in advance. --Michael ...
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 18, 2006
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                        Do you have a link or an abstract or search phrase (Ogui?) for the NY
                        Times article?

                        Thansk in advance.


                        --Michael

                        --- John <ejohnt@...> wrote:

                        > Yes, a good article,, also, note the recent one in the NY Times - In
                        > gassho, Acala (John)
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: lotusaware
                        > To: shinlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:39 PM
                        > Subject: [shinlist] Re: Questions
                        >
                        >
                        > Have you seen the latest issue of Tricycle Magazine?
                        > It includes an interview with Socho (Bishop) Ogui of the BCA. He is
                        > very clear and his answers are both cogent and helpful.
                        >
                        > Forgive my poor interpretation; if I have misquoted the error is
                        > mine.
                        >
                        > Among other things he offers a distinction between
                        >
                        > "self-power" and "Other-Power" and then distinguishes them
                        >
                        > with "Absolute Other Power" in which the distinction of "self" and
                        > "Other" disappears.
                        >
                        > He also offers a clarification about the position of Jodo Shin Shu
                        > over the subject of meditation. He points out that meditating is a
                        > natural activity of life and when treated as such is no different
                        > than
                        > any other part of life - so there is no problem. However if one is
                        > seeking "merit" or is meditating because it will lead to a result
                        > this
                        > it is not recommended. He also puts this subject in its historical
                        > context and feels that circumstances have changed which makes the
                        > issue a non-issue.
                        >
                        > Remember this is the man for whom "Namu Amida Butsu" is one answer,
                        > and having a good game of golf is another!
                        >
                        > Shaku Renjo (John)
                        >
                        > --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron \(Joushin\) Boone"
                        > <shoren108@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Truer words were not spoken LMC.
                        > > It is indeed both so simple and yet so deep it can make your head
                        > hurt. I am trying to muddle through but thankfully there isn't an
                        > exam. Well it's an easy one, it's "Namu Amida Butsu".
                        > >
                        > > Gassho,
                        > > Aaron (Shaku-Joushin)
                        > >
                        > > landmarkcommand <landmarkcommand@...> wrote:
                        > > My deepest thanks to both Aaron and Chris for taking the
                        > time and
                        > > trouble to answer my queries.
                        > > It certainly appears at one and the same time, to be both a very
                        > > simple practice and yet of a depth of complexity that might also
                        > > intimidate if I thought about it too much. Very glad that there
                        > are
                        > > people, both veterans and newer, who are here to help the seeker.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks again.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The Primal Vow was established out of deep compassion for us who
                        > cannot become freed from the bondage of birth-and-death through any
                        > religious practice, due to the abundance of blind passion. Since
                        > its
                        > basic intention is to effect the enlightenment of such an evil one,
                        > the evil person who is led to true entrusting by Other Power is the
                        > person who attains birth in the Pure Land. Thus, even the good
                        > person
                        > attains birth, how much more so the evil person!
                        > >
                        > > Shinran Shonin
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
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                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • Jay
                        I wrote a letter to Tricycle praising their covering of a Pure Land Buddhist topic. I encourage others to do so. Perhaps they will include more. The link to
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 18, 2006
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                          I wrote a letter to Tricycle praising their covering of a Pure Land Buddhist topic.  I encourage others to do so.  Perhaps they will include more.
                           
                           
                          Jason



                          Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -Martin Luther King Jr.


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                        • Andrew
                          I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being dicussed in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the BCA if there coverage is
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 24, 2006
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                            I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being dicussed
                            in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the BCA
                            if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                            practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.

                            Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach meditation?
                            Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                            implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                            eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo, the
                            great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                            disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                            practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.

                            Rennyo wrote:

                            "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?

                            Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                            Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into the
                            three evil paths.

                            The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month - just
                            those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                            meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of others.

                            Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed in
                            terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond words.

                            In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith from
                            now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to attain
                            birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."

                            If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and then
                            one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the west
                            today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is right
                            and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a Sangha
                            based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                            awakening of Pure Faith.

                            In Gassho


                            Andrew
                          • jrdavis
                            Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric initation. Westerners may need
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 24, 2006
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                              Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak. They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of the other power. I
                               
                              jim

                              Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                              I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being dicussed
                              in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the BCA
                              if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                              practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.

                              Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach meditation?
                              Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                              implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                              eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo, the
                              great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                              disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                              practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.

                              Rennyo wrote:

                              "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?

                              Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                              Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into the
                              three evil paths.

                              The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month - just
                              those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                              meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of others.

                              Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed in
                              terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond words.

                              In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith from
                              now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to attain
                              birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."

                              If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and then
                              one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the west
                              today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is right
                              and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a Sangha
                              based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                              awakening of Pure Faith.

                              In Gassho


                              Andrew








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                            • Andrew
                              Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering his Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his retreat for a period of 100
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
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                                Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering his
                                Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.

                                One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching of
                                our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th Century.

                                Gassho


                                Andrew


                                --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis <from_alamut@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                the other power. I
                                >
                                > jim
                                >
                                > Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                dicussed
                                > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                BCA
                                > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                >
                                > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach meditation?
                                > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                the
                                > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                >
                                > Rennyo wrote:
                                >
                                > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                >
                                > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                the
                                > three evil paths.
                                >
                                > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month - just
                                > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                others.
                                >
                                > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed in
                                > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond words.
                                >
                                > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith from
                                > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                attain
                                > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                >
                                > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and then
                                > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the west
                                > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is right
                                > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a Sangha
                                > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                >
                                > In Gassho
                                >
                                >
                                > Andrew
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                              • jrdavis
                                It was a dream intiationary experience that I was hinting at which is told in his wife s letters. jim Andrew wrote: Shinran turned to
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  It was a dream intiationary experience that I was hinting at which is told in his wife's letters.
                                   
                                  jim

                                  Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                  Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering his
                                  Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                  retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                  tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.

                                  One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                  oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                  itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                  18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching of
                                  our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th Century.

                                  Gassho


                                  Andrew


                                  --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                  and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                  initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                  They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                  the other power. I
                                  >
                                  > jim
                                  >
                                  > Andrew wrote:
                                  > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                  dicussed
                                  > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                  BCA
                                  > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                  > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                  >
                                  > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach meditation?
                                  > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                  > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                  > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                  the
                                  > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                  > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                  > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                  >
                                  > Rennyo wrote:
                                  >
                                  > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                  >
                                  > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                  > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                  the
                                  > three evil paths.
                                  >
                                  > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month - just
                                  > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                  > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                  others.
                                  >
                                  > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed in
                                  > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond words.
                                  >
                                  > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith from
                                  > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                  attain
                                  > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                  >
                                  > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and then
                                  > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the west
                                  > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is right
                                  > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a Sangha
                                  > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                  > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                  >
                                  > In Gassho
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Andrew
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >






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                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinlist/

                                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  shinlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                                • jrdavis
                                  A PURE LAND TEACHING IN ONE PAGE We base these teachings upon the Three Pure Land Sutras and the Lotus Sutra. Further we accept Shinran s [founder of
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 25, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    A PURE LAND TEACHING IN ONE PAGE
                                     
                                    We base these teachings upon the Three Pure Land Sutras and the Lotus Sutra. Further we accept Shinran's [founder of jodo-shinshu in the 13th century] writings, tho we interpret them in the context of a new cycle [post-mappo]. Tho we base our faith upon the interpretation of these sutras, we, in no way, abandon the other sutras nor urge others to abandon their sutras or practices. They are all Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings and practices.
                                     
                                    There are two gates of practice: the gate of expedient practices and the gates of essential practice.
                                     
                                    The gate of expedient practices include the practices of precepts, vows, zazen, insight meditation, visualization, chanting sutras, study, debate, etc. All of these are good practices and thru them Amitabha, the Buddha of Infinite Light and Life, leads beings to the certainity of enlightenment. These are all difficult practices and some are not for everybody. Yet Amitabha gives power to those who feel called to perform them. If this were not the case, then the words of the Buddha would be untrue. Since the various sutras all teach various ways to enlightenment, Amitabha helps all who undertake them.
                                    The gate of essential practice is to remember the name of Amitabha Buddha. Traditionally this is done thru the chanting of Amitabha's name [which varies according to the language of the people] and in the jodo-shinshu tradition is the nembutsu [namu amida butsu]. This remembrance is complete with one utterance and any chanting afterwards is done out of gratitude for the sake of others. Thru this remembrance Amitabha transfers power to us and awakens within us the certainty of enlightenment [shinjin].
                                     
                                    Some people feel called to a mixed practice. They perform expedient practices and the essential practice together. While others take up the essential gate and perform expedient practices out of compassion for others. Thus assisting others on their chosen path manifesting the power of Amitabha' compassion.
                                     
                                    Our goal is realization of nirvana in living itself. Whether one practices expedient or essential practices the end result is the same. A personal gnosis of one's fundamental unity with Ultimate Reality. Once this experience arises, one does not wait to engage in bodhisattva deeds. Spreading the teachings of the Buddha throughout the world, the world itself becomes the Pure Land. And then, after one's passing from life to life, returning again and again to this world to assist in the freeing of all beings [including the land, the grass, the animals and the trees] from the delusion of living in samsara. Thus all shall find themselves as complete nirvana.

                                    jim davis

                                    Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                    Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering his
                                    Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                    retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                    tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.

                                    One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                    oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                    itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                    18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching of
                                    our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th Century.

                                    Gassho


                                    Andrew


                                    --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                    and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                    initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                    They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                    the other power. I
                                    >
                                    > jim
                                    >
                                    > Andrew wrote:
                                    > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                    dicussed
                                    > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                    BCA
                                    > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                    > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                    >
                                    > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach meditation?
                                    > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                    > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                    > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                    the
                                    > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                    > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                    > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                    >
                                    > Rennyo wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                    >
                                    > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                    > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                    the
                                    > three evil paths.
                                    >
                                    > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month - just
                                    > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                    > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                    others.
                                    >
                                    > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed in
                                    > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond words.
                                    >
                                    > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith from
                                    > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                    attain
                                    > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                    >
                                    > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and then
                                    > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the west
                                    > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is right
                                    > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a Sangha
                                    > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                    > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                    >
                                    > In Gassho
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Andrew
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >






                                    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                                    Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
                                    http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/b0VolB/TM
                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->


                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinlist/

                                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    shinlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                                  • Andrew
                                    Indeed a dream. Not a tantric initiation. Let s not get carried away Jim. ... is told in his wife s letters. ... his ... of ... Century. ... meditation? ...
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 26, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Indeed a dream. Not a tantric initiation. Let's not get carried away
                                      Jim.

                                      --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis <from_alamut@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > It was a dream intiationary experience that I was hinting at which
                                      is told in his wife's letters.
                                      >
                                      > jim
                                      >
                                      > Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                      > Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering
                                      his
                                      > Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                      > retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                      > tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.
                                      >
                                      > One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                      > oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                      > itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                      > 18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching
                                      of
                                      > our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th
                                      Century.
                                      >
                                      > Gassho
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Andrew
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                      > and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                      > initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                      > They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                      > the other power. I
                                      > >
                                      > > jim
                                      > >
                                      > > Andrew wrote:
                                      > > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                      > dicussed
                                      > > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                      > BCA
                                      > > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                      > > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                      > >
                                      > > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach
                                      meditation?
                                      > > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                      > > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                      > > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                      > the
                                      > > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                      > > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                      > > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                      > >
                                      > > Rennyo wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                      > >
                                      > > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                      > > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                      > the
                                      > > three evil paths.
                                      > >
                                      > > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month -
                                      just
                                      > > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                      > > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                      > others.
                                      > >
                                      > > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed
                                      in
                                      > > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond
                                      words.
                                      > >
                                      > > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith
                                      from
                                      > > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                      > attain
                                      > > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                      > >
                                      > > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and
                                      then
                                      > > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the
                                      west
                                      > > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is
                                      right
                                      > > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a
                                      Sangha
                                      > > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                      > > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                      > >
                                      > > In Gassho
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Andrew
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                    • Andrew
                                      A very nice work Jim, though some context would be helpful. Did you write it yourself or does it belong to a Pure Land sect? ... Lotus Sutra. Further we accept
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 26, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        A very nice work Jim, though some context would be helpful. Did you
                                        write it yourself or does it belong to a Pure Land sect?
                                        --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis <from_alamut@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > A PURE LAND TEACHING IN ONE PAGE
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > We base these teachings upon the Three Pure Land Sutras and the
                                        Lotus Sutra. Further we accept Shinran's [founder of jodo-shinshu in
                                        the 13th century] writings, tho we interpret them in the context of
                                        a new cycle [post-mappo]. Tho we base our faith upon the
                                        interpretation of these sutras, we, in no way, abandon the other
                                        sutras nor urge others to abandon their sutras or practices. They
                                        are all Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings and practices.
                                        >
                                        > There are two gates of practice: the gate of expedient practices
                                        and the gates of essential practice.
                                        >
                                        > The gate of expedient practices include the practices of
                                        precepts, vows, zazen, insight meditation, visualization, chanting
                                        sutras, study, debate, etc. All of these are good practices and thru
                                        them Amitabha, the Buddha of Infinite Light and Life, leads beings
                                        to the certainity of enlightenment. These are all difficult
                                        practices and some are not for everybody. Yet Amitabha gives power
                                        to those who feel called to perform them. If this were not the case,
                                        then the words of the Buddha would be untrue. Since the various
                                        sutras all teach various ways to enlightenment, Amitabha helps all
                                        who undertake them.
                                        > The gate of essential practice is to remember the name of
                                        Amitabha Buddha. Traditionally this is done thru the chanting of
                                        Amitabha's name [which varies according to the language of the
                                        people] and in the jodo-shinshu tradition is the nembutsu [namu
                                        amida butsu]. This remembrance is complete with one utterance and
                                        any chanting afterwards is done out of gratitude for the sake of
                                        others. Thru this remembrance Amitabha transfers power to us and
                                        awakens within us the certainty of enlightenment [shinjin].
                                        >
                                        > Some people feel called to a mixed practice. They perform
                                        expedient practices and the essential practice together. While
                                        others take up the essential gate and perform expedient practices
                                        out of compassion for others. Thus assisting others on their chosen
                                        path manifesting the power of Amitabha' compassion.
                                        >
                                        > Our goal is realization of nirvana in living itself. Whether one
                                        practices expedient or essential practices the end result is the
                                        same. A personal gnosis of one's fundamental unity with Ultimate
                                        Reality. Once this experience arises, one does not wait to engage in
                                        bodhisattva deeds. Spreading the teachings of the Buddha throughout
                                        the world, the world itself becomes the Pure Land. And then, after
                                        one's passing from life to life, returning again and again to this
                                        world to assist in the freeing of all beings [including the land,
                                        the grass, the animals and the trees] from the delusion of living in
                                        samsara. Thus all shall find themselves as complete nirvana.
                                        >
                                        > jim davis
                                        >
                                        > Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                        > Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering
                                        his
                                        > Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                        > retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                        > tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.
                                        >
                                        > One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                        > oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                        > itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                        > 18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching
                                        of
                                        > our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th
                                        Century.
                                        >
                                        > Gassho
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Andrew
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                        > and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                        > initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                        > They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                        > the other power. I
                                        > >
                                        > > jim
                                        > >
                                        > > Andrew wrote:
                                        > > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                        > dicussed
                                        > > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                        > BCA
                                        > > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                        > > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                        > >
                                        > > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach
                                        meditation?
                                        > > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                        > > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                        > > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                        > the
                                        > > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                        > > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                        > > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                        > >
                                        > > Rennyo wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                        > >
                                        > > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                        > > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                        > the
                                        > > three evil paths.
                                        > >
                                        > > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month -
                                        just
                                        > > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                        > > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                        > others.
                                        > >
                                        > > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed
                                        in
                                        > > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond
                                        words.
                                        > >
                                        > > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith
                                        from
                                        > > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                        > attain
                                        > > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                        > >
                                        > > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and
                                        then
                                        > > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the
                                        west
                                        > > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is
                                        right
                                        > > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a
                                        Sangha
                                        > > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                        > > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                        > >
                                        > > In Gassho
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Andrew
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                      • jrdavis
                                        I wrote it for my zine EKO back in the early 90 s. jim Andrew wrote: A very nice work Jim, though some context would be helpful. Did
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 26, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I wrote it for my zine "EKO" back in the early 90's.
                                           
                                          jim

                                          Andrew <muanamiuk@...> wrote:
                                          A very nice work Jim, though some context would be helpful. Did you
                                          write it yourself or does it belong to a Pure Land sect?
                                          --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                          >
                                          > A PURE LAND TEACHING IN ONE PAGE
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We base these teachings upon the Three Pure Land Sutras and the
                                          Lotus Sutra. Further we accept Shinran's [founder of jodo-shinshu in
                                          the 13th century] writings, tho we interpret them in the context of
                                          a new cycle [post-mappo]. Tho we base our faith upon the
                                          interpretation of these sutras, we, in no way, abandon the other
                                          sutras nor urge others to abandon their sutras or practices. They
                                          are all Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings and practices.
                                          >
                                          > There are two gates of practice: the gate of expedient practices
                                          and the gates of essential practice.
                                          >
                                          > The gate of expedient practices include the practices of
                                          precepts, vows, zazen, insight meditation, visualization, chanting
                                          sutras, study, debate, etc. All of these are good practices and thru
                                          them Amitabha, the Buddha of Infinite Light and Life, leads beings
                                          to the certainity of enlightenment. These are all difficult
                                          practices and some are not for everybody. Yet Amitabha gives power
                                          to those who feel called to perform them. If this were not the case,
                                          then the words of the Buddha would be untrue. Since the various
                                          sutras all teach various ways to enlightenment, Amitabha helps all
                                          who undertake them.
                                          > The gate of essential practice is to remember the name of
                                          Amitabha Buddha. Traditionally this is done thru the chanting of
                                          Amitabha's name [which varies according to the language of the
                                          people] and in the jodo-shinshu tradition is the nembutsu [namu
                                          amida butsu]. This remembrance is complete with one utterance and
                                          any chanting afterwards is done out of gratitude for the sake of
                                          others. Thru this remembrance Amitabha transfers power to us and
                                          awakens within us the certainty of enlightenment [shinjin].
                                          >
                                          > Some people feel called to a mixed practice. They perform
                                          expedient practices and the essential practice together. While
                                          others take up the essential gate and perform expedient practices
                                          out of compassion for others. Thus assisting others on their chosen
                                          path manifesting the power of Amitabha' compassion.
                                          >
                                          > Our goal is realization of nirvana in living itself. Whether one
                                          practices expedient or essential practices the end result is the
                                          same. A personal gnosis of one's fundamental unity with Ultimate
                                          Reality. Once this experience arises, one does not wait to engage in
                                          bodhisattva deeds. Spreading the teachings of the Buddha throughout
                                          the world, the world itself becomes the Pure Land. And then, after
                                          one's passing from life to life, returning again and again to this
                                          world to assist in the freeing of all beings [including the land,
                                          the grass, the animals and the trees] from the delusion of living in
                                          samsara. Thus all shall find themselves as complete nirvana.
                                          >
                                          > jim davis
                                          >
                                          > Andrew wrote:
                                          > Shinran turned to the gate of the Pure Land after encountering
                                          his
                                          > Master Honen Shonin and sincerely listening to the Dharma at his
                                          > retreat for a period of 100 days.He did not have to undergo a
                                          > tantric initiation before he could turn to Other-power.
                                          >
                                          > One does not need to follow the path of sages before entrusting
                                          > oneself to Amida's Original Vow. The Pure Land Way is complete in
                                          > itself. Shinran goes into this in depth in his discussion of the
                                          > 18th, 19th and 20th Vows in Chapter VI of the KGSS. The teaching
                                          of
                                          > our Great Master is just as valid now as it was in the 13th
                                          Century.
                                          >
                                          > Gassho
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Andrew
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In shinlist@yahoogroups.com, jrdavis wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Shinran tried for over 20 years self-power practices to no avail
                                          > and only then he turned to other-power path by way of a tantric
                                          > initation. Westerners may need to take the same path so to speak.
                                          > They need to try self-power before they can realize the reality of
                                          > the other power. I
                                          > >
                                          > > jim
                                          > >
                                          > > Andrew wrote:
                                          > > I for one am always grateful to hear of Jodo Shinshu being
                                          > dicussed
                                          > > in mainstream publications. However it is a poor showing by the
                                          > BCA
                                          > > if there coverage is occasioned only through their adoption of
                                          > > practices, such as zazen, that appeal to a mainstream audience.
                                          > >
                                          > > Which raises the question why do BCA temples now teach
                                          meditation?
                                          > > Is it only to 'get more bums on seats' or is there a wider
                                          > > implication? If there is such a reason it is one that obviously
                                          > > eluded Shinran who specificaly rejected this practice or Rennyo,
                                          > the
                                          > > great restorer of Jodo Shinshu, who went faced with the imminent
                                          > > disintergration of the Sangha, found no need to recourse to
                                          > > practices outside of the tradition in order to rebuild it.
                                          > >
                                          > > Rennyo wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > "Now - whatfs the purpose of monthly meetings in our sect?
                                          > >
                                          > > Lay people, lacking wisdom, spend their days and nights in vain.
                                          > > Their lives pass by meaninglessly, and in the end they fall into
                                          > the
                                          > > three evil paths.
                                          > >
                                          > > The meetings are occasions when - even if only once a month -
                                          just
                                          > > those who practice the Nembutsu should at least gather in the
                                          > > meeting place and discuss their own faith - and the faith of
                                          > others.
                                          > >
                                          > > Recently, however, because matters of faith are never discussed
                                          in
                                          > > terms of right and wrong, the situation is deplorable beyond
                                          words.
                                          > >
                                          > > In conclusion, there must definitely be discussions of faith
                                          from
                                          > > now on among those at the meetings. For this is how we are to
                                          > attain
                                          > > birth in the true and real land of utmost bliss."
                                          > >
                                          > > If one takes to heart the words of Rennyo in this letter, and
                                          then
                                          > > one relates it to the current state of the Shin Sangha in the
                                          west
                                          > > today in which faith is never discussed in terms of what is
                                          right
                                          > > and wron; one will see the right way forward to building a
                                          Sangha
                                          > > based firmly on deep listening to the Buddha Dharma and the
                                          > > awakening of Pure Faith.
                                          > >
                                          > > In Gassho
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Andrew
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >







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