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Essential reading for anyone who intends to really help

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  • Roger Eldridge
    Essential reading (with web links) and input from Ivor Catt ­ an experienced and thoughtful man. Roger Eldridge *** From:
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 1, 2003
      Essential reading (with web links) and input from Ivor Catt ­ an experienced
      and thoughtful man.

      Roger Eldridge

      ***


      From: "" <ivorcatt@...>
      Reply-To: euro-dads@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:57:34 -0000
      To: <euro-dads@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [euro-dads&mums] Whither Manhood And Fatherhood

      I find that a good understanding of the overall situation comes with reading
      the key analysts. However, every year there is an influx of newly excluded
      fathers who cannot believe that the crisis is so deep, so they assume that
      those who argue for such lengthy study are "making a hobby of it", as one
      said. Having failed to master the subject, they can be faced down, but this
      takes time. As I said to Eugen recently, they cannot be expected to believe
      that so much study, of the books we happen to have read, is necessary. [See
      "Key Books", below.]

      After gaining a broad grasp of the crisis, there comes the issue of how to
      reform the situation. There are crucial decisions to be made. Those without
      insight, because lacking background study or experience, will then interfere
      with the discussion. Key issues even include "no fault divorce", which is
      not agreed among us.
      Androgyny is another issue. "Retreat" is another which divides us. See
      http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/retreat01.htm ;
      http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/README.htm . As with my belief that
      the law needs to be straightened out, "Retreat" receives cursory dismissal
      from nearly all excluded fathers. Some even just assume that the word
      "Retreat" means to give up! With that level of application, small wonder
      that reform will be slow in coming. Also, there can be no unity among people
      who don't bother to read each other's proposals, but just guess at what they
      propose, and dismiss them.

      Periodically, into the fray, come newly excluded fathers who think our
      organisations might be pressured into restoring their children access in a
      few months. They then see us as a barrier, not doing our job, and getting in
      the way.

      Individuals throw money at the problem, of otherwise become martyrs to the
      cause. After suffering damage, such individuals assume they have become our
      natural leaders, however inappropriate because unskilled. Some of those who
      have invested in the problem look for payback, and edge closer to our
      institutional adversaries, hoping for funding, but alienating the rest of
      us.

      Well intentioned men who have not been through the divorce courts think they
      know what it is like, but let us down by assuming that the courts cannot be
      as atrocious as we say they are.

      Those who haven't mastered the apostrophe bury our cause in unschooled
      propaganda, so reassuring our adversaries that we lack depth, sophistication
      and strength.

      Key books.
      Melanie Phillips, "The Sex-Change Society", pub. SMF nov99, now republished.
      http://www.melaniephillips.com/ http://www.mensrights.com.au/page15p.htm
      http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/books.html ;
      http://www.dadi.org/nt_destr.htm . A new Melanie book will come out this
      year; "The Ascent of Women".

      Patricia Morgan, "Farewell to the Family?", pub. IEA 1995/9, hwu@...
      http://www.fulltimemothers.org/newsletters/0999/farewell.htm ;
      http://www.care.org.uk/resource/ls/ls950615.htm ;

      Erin Pizzey, "Women or Men - Who are the Victims?", pub. Civitas 2000,
      books@... ; http://www.bennett.com/ptv/index.shtml

      Warren Farrell, "Father and Child Reunion", pub. Penguin Putnam 2001
      http://www.ancpr.org/farrell.htm ;

      http://www.fathers-rights-child-custody.com/warrenfarrell/farrell-contents.h
      tm

      Lynette Burrows, "The Fight for the Family", pub. FYC
      http://www.famyouth.org.uk ;
      http://www.famyouth.org.uk/books/fight_forthe_family.html

      Daniel Amneus, "The Garbage eneration", pub. Primrose 1990;
      http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Library/Amneus/garbage/ ;

      David Thomas, "Not Guilty", pub. Weidenfeld .... 1993 ;
      http://www.backlash.com/content/gender/1994/11-nov94/page23.html

      Christina Hoff Sommers, "Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women"
      Paperback Reprint edition (May 1995) Simon & Schuster (Paper); ISBN:
      0684801566 http://www.gendercenter.org/sommers.htm

      http://www.newsearching.com/bestseller_book/Who_Stole_Feminism__-_book_by_Ch
      ristina_Hoff_Sommers.html
      http://hallnonfiction.com/womens_studies/119.shtml

      Ivor Catt, "The Hook and the Sting";
      http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/xk1hs1.htm

      Norman Dennis, "Rising Crime and the Dismembered Family" pub. IEA 1993
      http://www.iea.org.uk/ ; http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/risi3508.html









      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <HrnPtr2@...>
      To: <euro-dads@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [euro-dads&mums] Whither Manhood And Fatherhood


      > Gerald Rowles says he's been waiting 10 years for men to get angry and
      sound
      > like it. I agree. I mean Families Need Fathers is 30 years old. The
      number
      > of fatherless families has grown massively over that time.
      > Where are all the dads? Would it be true to say that the total number of
      > "interested" ie very slgihtly committed, blokes in the UK is about 2 or 3
      > thousand and that of that the number of willing activists might be 250?
      Out
      > of 54 million people.
      > What do other people think. I never see my 7 year old and am boiling mad
      > about it but I just don't see the evidence of general concern.
      > What do other guys think? I am aware that those replying are going to be
      > the titny minority of men who care and do bother but why out of 3 million
      > fatherlss families can FNF, the biggest UK group muster 2 thousand at most
      > and anyway, FNF is about as dead in the water as it is possible to get.
      > Which leaves what?
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > Mailing list for those who believe that children need both parents.
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: euro-dads@...
      >
      > To Subscribe, send a blank message to: euro-dads-subscribe@...
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      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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      >
      >




      Mailing list for those who believe that children need both parents.

      To Post a message, send it to: euro-dads@...

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      ------ End of Forwarded Message
    • petekaplan2000 <PeteKaplan@hotmail.com>
      Greetings, reading any or all these books will not bring you any closer to understanding or solving the problem with the system. Because none of these authors
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 21, 2003
        Greetings,
        reading any or all these books will not bring you any
        closer to understanding or solving the problem with the system.
        Because none of these authors point out the solution.
        The problem is not "where are all the Fathers"? or that
        there are too many fatherless homes. The problem is that there are
        too many single mother homes. The problem is that family court
        judges are creating a million new single mother homes every year by
        giving custody of children to mothers instead of fathers.
        The only solution would be for judges to return to
        Victorian Age principles and give fathers custody automatically in
        divorce and custody cases.

        Pete Kaplan



        > To: <euro-dads@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [euro-dads&mums] Whither Manhood And Fatherhood
        >
        > I find that a good understanding of the overall situation comes
        with reading
        > the key analysts. However, every year there is an influx of newly
        excluded
        > fathers who cannot believe that the crisis is so deep, so they
        assume that
        > those who argue for such lengthy study are "making a hobby of it",
        as one
        > said. Having failed to master the subject, they can be faced down,
        but this
        > takes time. As I said to Eugen recently, they cannot be expected to
        believe
        > that so much study, of the books we happen to have read, is
        necessary. [See
        > "Key Books", below.]
        >
        > After gaining a broad grasp of the crisis, there comes the issue of
        how to
        > reform the situation. There are crucial decisions to be made. Those
        without
        > insight, because lacking background study or experience, will then
        interfere
        > with the discussion. Key issues even include "no fault divorce",
        which is
        > not agreed among us.
        > Androgyny is another issue. "Retreat" is another which divides us.
        See
        > http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/retreat01.htm ;
        > http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/README.htm . As with my
        belief that
        > the law needs to be straightened out, "Retreat" receives cursory
        dismissal
        > from nearly all excluded fathers. Some even just assume that the
        word
        > "Retreat" means to give up! With that level of application, small
        wonder
        > that reform will be slow in coming. Also, there can be no unity
        among people
        > who don't bother to read each other's proposals, but just guess at
        what they
        > propose, and dismiss them.
        >
        > Periodically, into the fray, come newly excluded fathers who think
        our
        > organisations might be pressured into restoring their children
        access in a
        > few months. They then see us as a barrier, not doing our job, and
        getting in
        > the way.
        >
        > Individuals throw money at the problem, of otherwise become martyrs
        to the
        > cause. After suffering damage, such individuals assume they have
        become our
        > natural leaders, however inappropriate because unskilled. Some of
        those who
        > have invested in the problem look for payback, and edge closer to
        our
        > institutional adversaries, hoping for funding, but alienating the
        rest of
        > us.
        >
        > Well intentioned men who have not been through the divorce courts
        think they
        > know what it is like, but let us down by assuming that the courts
        cannot be
        > as atrocious as we say they are.
        >
        > Those who haven't mastered the apostrophe bury our cause in
        unschooled
        > propaganda, so reassuring our adversaries that we lack depth,
        sophistication
        > and strength.
        >
        > Key books.
        > Melanie Phillips, "The Sex-Change Society", pub. SMF nov99, now
        republished.
        > http://www.melaniephillips.com/
        http://www.mensrights.com.au/page15p.htm
        > http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/books.html ;
        > http://www.dadi.org/nt_destr.htm . A new Melanie book will come
        out this
        > year; "The Ascent of Women".
        >
        > Patricia Morgan, "Farewell to the Family?", pub. IEA 1995/9,
        hwu@i...
        > http://www.fulltimemothers.org/newsletters/0999/farewell.htm ;
        > http://www.care.org.uk/resource/ls/ls950615.htm ;
        >
        > Erin Pizzey, "Women or Men - Who are the Victims?", pub. Civitas
        2000,
        > books@c... ; http://www.bennett.com/ptv/index.shtml
        >
        > Warren Farrell, "Father and Child Reunion", pub. Penguin Putnam 2001
        > http://www.ancpr.org/farrell.htm ;
        >
        > http://www.fathers-rights-child-custody.com/warrenfarrell/farrell-
        contents.h
        > tm
        >
        > Lynette Burrows, "The Fight for the Family", pub. FYC
        > http://www.famyouth.org.uk ;
        > http://www.famyouth.org.uk/books/fight_forthe_family.html
        >
        > Daniel Amneus, "The Garbage eneration", pub. Primrose 1990;
        > http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Library/Amneus/garbage/ ;
        >
        > David Thomas, "Not Guilty", pub. Weidenfeld .... 1993 ;
        > http://www.backlash.com/content/gender/1994/11-nov94/page23.html
        >
        > Christina Hoff Sommers, "Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have
        Betrayed Women"
        > Paperback Reprint edition (May 1995) Simon & Schuster (Paper); ISBN:
        > 0684801566 http://www.gendercenter.org/sommers.htm
        >
        > http://www.newsearching.com/bestseller_book/Who_Stole_Feminism__-
        _book_by_Ch
        > ristina_Hoff_Sommers.html
        > http://hallnonfiction.com/womens_studies/119.shtml
        >
        > Ivor Catt, "The Hook and the Sting";
        > http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/xk1hs1.htm
        >
        > Norman Dennis, "Rising Crime and the Dismembered Family" pub. IEA
        1993
        > http://www.iea.org.uk/ ;
        http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/risi3508.html
        >
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