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Re: Introducing Data Structure // A-Z in PropID's

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  • Robert Jasiek
    This letter is about - syntax details - last move - collective game info property ... For this reasons I have suggested PI and M. You might have questions
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 10, 1999
      This letter is about
      - syntax details
      - last move
      - collective game info property

      Arno Hollosi wrote:
      > We're trying to keep SGF simple and compatible :o)

      For this reasons I have suggested PI and M. You might
      have questions about M here, but it is just one
      property that respects coexistence of B and W in the
      standard.

      > CP[NihonKiin][SO:Kido vol.2][AN:KOBAYASHI Kouichi]
      > [CO:KOBAYASHI Kouichi][AN.title_holding:Japanese Tengen]

      IMO, this is the standard way SGF handles multiple values,
      so we should use the NN[][][][] principle. We can then
      decide whether we prefer NN[N1:bla][N2:blb][N3:blc][N4:bld]
      or NN[bla blb blc bld] type of syntax. The first choice
      can be used by databases, the second uses natural language.
      I have no particular preferrence for either.

      > Even this might cause problems with applications as they only
      > expect one CP value.

      If some properties are unified, then minor problems occur anyway.
      By selecting a new unification property the trouble is smallest.

      > CP[NihonKiin
      > #SO:Kido vol.2
      > #AN:KOBAYASHI Kouichi
      > #AN.title_holding:Japanese Tengen
      > #CO:KOBAYASHI Kouichi]

      IMO, it is not necessary to invent yet another type of
      subsyntax.

      > RE[W+0.5
      > #last_move_number:234
      > #black_left_time:0
      > #white_left_time:3]

      I think that RE should not be used as a collective property
      because it shall already contain the result type and comments
      in details as in my proposal (like RE[W+F:B did not appear] ).

      It is not clear to me what a Last_Move_Number_Property shall
      be good for. Move numbers are implicitly given by the moves.
      Passes give the end of a game phase. (I strongly oppose the
      style of omitting final passes. Passes are moves like plays
      are moves as well.) - Maybe a Last Move shall denote something
      entirely different: The Last Move that has contested points.
      Typically, in Asian literature it is this type of Last Move
      that is particularly denoted. It is up to the annotator to
      decide upon the proper move. However, this type of move does
      not stop a game phase. It is the succession of passes that
      stops a game phase. If it is this stop of a game phase (or
      of the Alternation Phase in particular) that shall be given,
      then the usage of B, W, or M with "pass" values is already
      sufficient, IMO.

      Also the remaining times are given by time properties rather
      than by RE.

      > PB[us:name in English
      > #jp:name in Japanese
      > #cn:name in Chinese]

      I would be happy with NN[us:Smith][jp:Japanese_name][cn:Chinese_name].
      However, I do not seriously argue about syntax details, I can live
      with every syntax; powerful semantics is much more important.

      *******
      With M a property with a composition of 3 values is suggested
      (like M[1:W:cd] ). Since M is new anyway and the construction
      of composition is as usual, the extension to 3 values within
      one composition seems plausible to me. Otherwise one could split
      M into 15 different properties, one for each move type, which
      would be tedious.

      *******
      PI for persons involved could be altered to the type

      composed simpletext ':' simpletext

      The first entry would specify the person type, one of:
      AN
      CO
      CP
      RF
      SO
      SP
      TK
      US

      Example: PI[RF:chief referee Kobayashi Koichi][RF:assistent
      referee Cho Chikun][RF:assistent referee Rin Kaiho][CP:
      Nihon Kiin][CP:Yomiuri][SO:Yomiuri][TK:Abe Yoshiteru]

      The following alternative would allow miscallenous persons
      more easily:
      PI[chief referee Kobayashi Koichi, assistent
      referee Cho Chikun, assistent referee Rin Kaiho, copyright
      Nihon Kiin and Yomiuri, source Yomiuri, time keeper Abe Yoshiteru,
      famous kibitz Lee Chang-Ho]

      --
      robert jasiek
      http://www.snafu.de/~jasiek/
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