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Re: [sgf-std] open source java sgf viewer?

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  • Ray Tayek
    ... sort of. it does complain about this file removes stones without capture . but the real problem is that is does not allow me to start the joseki in any
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 17, 2002
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      At 05:36 PM 9/17/02 -0700, you wrote:

      >Many Faces version 11 works with Kogo's dictionary.
      >
      >David

      sort of. it does complain about "this file removes stones without capture".

      but the real problem is that is does not allow me to start the joseki in
      any corner and in any direction (like manyfaces built-in joseki dictionary
      does). this is really valuable when playing by email or on-line. (it would
      also be nice to attach the joseki dictionary to an existing game that was
      in the fuseki stage.) i suspect that you do have some special logic to
      handle the symmetris. but i can't seem to find any sgf file that you keep
      your josekis in. (are they in fuseki.fus?).

      my parser can eat kogo's dictionary. i just need some display code and then
      i can write some logic to deal with the symmetries.

      thanks


      >At 03:31 AM 9/17/2002 -0700, you wrote:
      > >hi, working on an sgf viewer. i have a parser and some old display code.
      > >but the display code is very old. i was looking for a clean board display.
      > >
      > >my goal is to try and make a joseki viewer that works like manyfaces
      > >(allows you to start the joseki in any corner and any direction), but will
      > >eat kogos dictionary (many faces does not like it - and i suspect that he
      > >has special code to handle the symmetries).
      > >
      > >any pointers will be appreciated.
      > >
      >...

      ---
      ray tayek http://home.attbi.com/~rtayek/ actively seeking telecommuting work
      vice chair orange county java users group http://www.ocjug.org/
      mailto:chair@...
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    • David Fotland
      ... Only because kogo doesn t always follow the sgf style guide :) It turns out that when it does this, it is doing something like play A, remove A, play B
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 17, 2002
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        At 08:43 PM 9/17/2002 -0700, you wrote:
        >At 05:36 PM 9/17/02 -0700, you wrote:
        >
        > >Many Faces version 11 works with Kogo's dictionary.
        > >
        > >David
        >
        >sort of. it does complain about "this file removes stones without capture".

        Only because kogo doesn't always follow the sgf style guide :) It turns
        out that
        when it does this, it is doing something like "play A, remove A, play B" all
        as a single move, and Many Faces 11 handles this case correctly.

        Since Many Faces is a go playing program, it can't handle removing an
        arbitrary stone from the board. Stones are only removed by capturing them.


        >but the real problem is that is does not allow me to start the joseki in
        >any corner and in any direction (like manyfaces built-in joseki dictionary
        >does). this is really valuable when playing by email or on-line. (it would
        >also be nice to attach the joseki dictionary to an existing game that was
        >in the fuseki stage.) i suspect that you do have some special logic to
        >handle the symmetris. but i can't seem to find any sgf file that you keep
        >your josekis in. (are they in fuseki.fus?).

        Sure it does. Use the View menu to rotate or flip the board to get the
        orientation
        you want. But you can't easily combine the joseki library with a game.

        A feature on the list for next version is to allow you to import joseki for
        Many Faces
        to use in the engine, and display in the tutor. But even then you would not
        have Kogo's wonderful comments on the move.

        My joseki database is compiled into the program, not as a separate file. I
        had to do this for the game console versions, where there is no file system.
        Also, I keep the josekis in a directed graph, not a tree, to allow move
        transpositions, and sgf format only supports trees.

        I do have special code to handle the symmetries. It's possible for a joseki to
        start asymmetric one way, then become symmetric again, then go asymmetric the
        other way :)

        David


        >my parser can eat kogo's dictionary. i just need some display code and then
        >i can write some logic to deal with the symmetries.
        >
        >thanks
        >
        >
        > >At 03:31 AM 9/17/2002 -0700, you wrote:
        > > >hi, working on an sgf viewer. i have a parser and some old display code.
        > > >but the display code is very old. i was looking for a clean board display.
        > > >
        > > >my goal is to try and make a joseki viewer that works like manyfaces
        > > >(allows you to start the joseki in any corner and any direction), but will
        > > >eat kogos dictionary (many faces does not like it - and i suspect that he
        > > >has special code to handle the symmetries).
        > > >
        > > >any pointers will be appreciated.
        > > >
        > >...
        >
        >---
        >ray tayek http://home.attbi.com/~rtayek/ actively seeking telecommuting work
        >vice chair orange county java users group http://www.ocjug.org/
        >mailto:chair@...
        >hate spam? http://samspade.org/ssw/
        >
        >
        >
        >SGF spec: http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/
        >Contact: Arno Hollosi <ahollosi@...>
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • mikke
        ... It doesn t just break the guide lines, does it? It breaks the standard as well. My favorit sgf-viewer PilotGOne have this drawback. It violates Only one
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 19, 2002
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          > Only because kogo doesn't always follow the sgf style guide :) It turns
          > out that when it does this, it is doing something like "play A, remove A,
          > play B" all as a single move

          It doesn't just break the guide lines, does it? It breaks the standard as well.

          My favorit sgf-viewer PilotGOne have this drawback. It violates "Only one
          of each property is allowed per node" for many property types.

          I have a not related question:
          Could someone please explain the use of "inherit"? It has confused me for
          a while. I think I understand the intention of having "inherit" but it seam
          only to be used by DD[] PM[] VW[] (all new in FF[4]). I would belive
          that other properties could be a candidate for that attribute, e g AB[].
          Many applications (correctly I think?) treat AB[] and AW[] as "inherit".

          Regards,
          Mikael Thulin
        • Arno Hollosi
          ... Yes, invalid SGF. ... Your logic is correct. However, changes on the board, such as B,W,AB,AW,AE have always been permanent. Inherit was mainly invented
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 21, 2002
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            On Thursday 19 September 2002 20:07, mikke wrote:
            > > "play A, remove A, play B" all as a single move
            > It breaks the standard as well.

            Yes, invalid SGF.

            > Could someone please explain the use of "inherit"? It has confused me for
            > a while. I think I understand the intention of having "inherit" but it seam
            > only to be used by DD[] PM[] VW[] (all new in FF[4]). I would belive
            > that other properties could be a candidate for that attribute, e g AB[].
            > Many applications (correctly I think?) treat AB[] and AW[] as "inherit".

            Your logic is correct. However, changes on the board, such as B,W,AB,AW,AE
            have always been permanent. "Inherit" was mainly invented for describing
            "permanent" board markup. Thus it is limited to DD etc.

            /Arno
          • Scott Thompson
            Can anyone tell me where I can find a spec for the UGF (UGI?) file format? I d like to do ugf to sgf conversion but all of the utilities I ve found loose
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 28, 2002
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              Can anyone tell me where I can find a spec for the UGF (UGI?) file
              format?

              I'd like to do ugf to sgf conversion but all of the utilities I've
              found loose things like comments.

              Scott
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