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Re: Problem sets.

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  • David Fotland
    Why not put the position in the root node? What does the SY[] property mean? Many Faces doesn t recognize it. You don t have a machine readable indication
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 5, 1999
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      Why not put the position in the root node? What does the SY[] property
      mean? Many Faces doesn't recognize it. You don't have a machine
      readable indication of the correct answer (like TE[2]). I think it
      will be confusing to people that they can't just click where
      they think the answer is. They have to step forward a move to
      get the A-D labels, then click on the point where the answer is.

      I prefer to put the starting position in the root node, so they
      don't see an empty board first. If they want to see labels
      for choices they can turn on next move labelling, so I don't
      put labels in the problem. I prefer to have the answers as
      direct followers of the root node, without another node
      in between. I like having an property to indicate correct
      answer, so the computer can keep track of which problems
      have been answered correctly already. This enables the
      program to show the percent correct, and to avoid repeating
      problems that have already been solved correctly.

      David Fotland

      >
      >Hopefully these examples will be useful to anybody trying to figure out
      >how you can nicely put problems into SGF files.
      >--
      > Bill Shubert (wms@...)
      > http://www.hevanet.com/wms/
      >
      >
      >
      >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\tsumego-1,5.sgf"
      >
      >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\1-1.sgf"
      >
      >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\wms3.vcf"
      >
    • William M. Shubert
      SY was once part of the standard. You are right, I should get rid of it since it is no longer in the standard. Also, you are right, a machine readable
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 5, 1999
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        SY was once part of the standard. You are right, I should get rid of it
        since it is no longer in the standard. Also, you are right, a machine
        readable indication of correct answer would be nice.

        The rest I think is just personal preference. In the tsumego problem I
        don't put anything in the root node because there are several problems in a
        single SGF file. I do it this way because I like it this way, and I wrote
        the problem-format-converter for my own use. The joseki problem has nothing
        in the root node because it is essentially a game frozen a few moves in,
        and games usually start with an empty board. Again, I did it this way
        because I like it - sometimes I want to back up and see the order of the
        moves as they appeared, because sometimes I can't figure out how the board
        got into this position. As for having to step forward to get the labels, I
        like that because I pick my move first without the labels, then if there is
        no label where I picked, I know I am way off and re-think the problem
        knowing that the solution is one of the labelled points. I never click
        where the answer is, when I do these problems I never use the mouse at all.
        With cgoban you can navigate the variations very easily with just a
        keyboard. Again, it is this way because I did it for myself and I like it
        this way.

        Basically, except for SY and TE, I don't think you can call the way I like
        it or the way you like it "wrong" or "right". Both ways you have a problem
        and a solution. Little things like whether the board appears in the root
        node, and whether you step to see the options or see them right away, are
        rather nitpicky.

        Maybe on the SGF web pages we could have a collection of problems, not
        really to solve, but just to see the different ways that problems may be
        presented with SGF? That could be useful both as templates for people
        trying to build problem sets, and also as test cases for SGF viewers so
        that programmers could make sure that their viewer/editor performs as the
        SGF author intended for every case. Does this sound good? If enough other
        people like this (and will contribute their own SGF problems done the way
        they like), then I'll clean up mine to get rid of SY and add TE and repost.

        David Fotland wrote:

        > From: David Fotland <fotland@...>
        >
        > Why not put the position in the root node? What does the SY[] property
        > mean? Many Faces doesn't recognize it. You don't have a machine
        > readable indication of the correct answer (like TE[2]). I think it
        > will be confusing to people that they can't just click where
        > they think the answer is. They have to step forward a move to
        > get the A-D labels, then click on the point where the answer is.
        >
        > I prefer to put the starting position in the root node, so they
        > don't see an empty board first. If they want to see labels
        > for choices they can turn on next move labelling, so I don't
        > put labels in the problem. I prefer to have the answers as
        > direct followers of the root node, without another node
        > in between. I like having an property to indicate correct
        > answer, so the computer can keep track of which problems
        > have been answered correctly already. This enables the
        > program to show the percent correct, and to avoid repeating
        > problems that have already been solved correctly.
        >
        > David Fotland

        --
        Bill Shubert (wms@...)
        http://www.hevanet.com/wms/
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