- +1 Steve 2009/12/28 Gregg WonderlyMessage 1 of 77 , Dec 29, 2009View Source+1Steve2009/12/28 Gregg Wonderly <gergg@...>
I think one of the still, largely unrecognized issues is that developers really
should be designing services as RPC interfaces, always. Then, different service
interface schemes, such as SOAP, HTTP (Rest et.al.), Jini, etc., can be more
easily become a "deployment" technology introduction instead of a "foundation"
technology implementation that greatly limits how and under what circumstances a
service can be used. Programming Language/platform IDEs make it too easy to
"just use" a single technology, and then everything melds into a pile of
'technology' instead of a 'service'.
Gregg Wonderly>>> <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>, Michael
Michael Poulin wrote:
> I think, one interesting aspect of service orientation is berried in
> this CBDI phrase: use of the spec as a public description requires much
> deeper shearing of the service semantics between the service developers
> and " the service consumers and solution architects". This is a BIG
> It limits abilities of the service providers to advertise the service to
> different consumer societies, different audiences, and different areas
> of Business. To be used in Business, the shared semantics must be
> minimal and it is not any close to the development vocabulary. Thus, I
> can conclude that the CBDI's approach (based on the quote posted by
> Dennis) is good if "developers and testers, ...service consumers and
> solution architects" belong to the same society that shares all low
> level details about the service. This may cause problems even inside the
> same enterprise if it is large enough (CORBA Object Trading Service has
> taught us hard lessons with this regard).
> - Michael
> *From:* Dennis Djenfer <dej@...>
> *To:* firstname.lastname@example.org
> *Sent:* Fri, December 25, 2009 12:13:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Descriptions vs
> Ok. In this case I think CBDI are using the specification both for
> internal use by developers and for public use by service consumers. The
> CBDI Wiki has the following to say about the Serice Specification:
> "Though it initially acts as an instruction to the developers and
> testers, it is subsequently utilized by the service consumers and
> solution architects."
> // Dennis Djenfer
> Michael Poulin wrote:
>> ...actually, the semantic of the name. To my knowledge, OASIS used
>> term 'Service Description' to avoid term 'specification' . The former
>> was viewed as publicly available 'specification' for the service
>> consumers while actual service specification was meant for the
>> internal use for the developers. (When Amazon
>> - publishes PC specification, it is not the real one, it is dedicated
>> to the buyers. So, instead of explaining which spec is meant, OASIS
>> just used different term).
>> - Michael
>> *From:* Dennis Djenfer <dej@algonet. se>
>> *To:* service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com
>> *Sent:* Wed, December 23, 2009 4:01:41 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [service-orientated -architecture] Re: Descriptions vs
>> Michael Poulin wrote:
>>> It is very interesting and informative post, Lawrence!
>>> Here is a little challenge (again): a service is built against its
>>> specification - documented or not. You can derive a public
>>> announcement from this spec - Service Description. As Service
>>> Description may have versions, as the service spec may have versions.
>>> Together, this becomes difficult to manage (on the producer's side).
>> What makes you believe that the Service Specification is not the same
>> thing as a Service Description (except for the name)?
>> // Dennis Djenfer
>>> "we do find a lot of reluctance to make this effort - particularly to
>>> make the investment if such a registry/catalog isn't already in
>>> place, and as often as not " - is, unfortunately , a common place. We
>>> tried to fight it with IT Governance that treated each service as an
>>> independent product, i.e. with full and maintained across projects
>>> documentation. This, implicitly, answers the question - what should
>>> be documented. Because of such governing policy, not many components
>>> and RPCs were considered as services (in the end) - only the ones
>>> that had particular and strong business/technical meaning.
>>> SO as the concept and related Governance must prevent even an idea of
>>> shortcutting on service-consumer relationship - they must be treated
>>> as independent in spite of any administrative/ management ownership
>>> boundaries. This is why I position Architecture above Management. The
>>> major principle during the service design and implementation - no
>>> concrete assumptions of the future consumers ( and, especially, who
>>> will command them); nothing more than a potential category of them.
>>> If your team/management violates this principle, they are not
>>> service-oriented yet.
>>> - Michael
>>> *From:* LAWRENCE <l.wilkes@btinternet .com>
>>> *To:* service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com
>>> *Sent:* Tue, December 22, 2009 2:06:20 PM
>>> *Subject:* [service-orientated -architecture] Re: Descriptions vs
>>> --- In service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com>>> Poulin <m3poulin@.. .> wrote:>>> Specification, <http://cbdi.wikispaces.com/Service+Specification,> we
>>> > As I guess, Lawrence, the service specification is an internal
>>> document. While I fine with deriving Service Description from the
>>> service spec, it would be interesting to know how you have resolved
>>> the ownership issue of this specification; does it belong to IT or to
>>> Business? Example: consumer provides the instructions and funds and
>>> the service invests them accordingly; who is the custodian of the
>>> service spec?
>>> Our approach is to have a multi-facetted Service Specification that
>>> addresses all audiences. As you don't want separate business and IT
>>> specifications that drift out of synch, it is better to have them as
>>> different properties of the same specification. (of course, that
>>> still requires someone to keep the properties in synch - but common
>>> ones should be shared, not duplicated)
>>> As listed in our wiki, http://cbdi. wikispaces. com/Service+>>> have several sections in our specification
>>> * Service properties that provides basic information on the status
>>> and history of the service
>>> * Business properties that show how the Service supports the
>>> business, and who in the business is responsible for the Service
>>> Technical properties that provide a more IT-centric view of the Service
>>> * Quality of service that is or should be offered by the Service -
>>> such as the reliability or security requirements
>>> And at the more detailed level
>>> * Functional behavior of the individual operations, including the
>>> operation signature, together with the pre and post conditions that
>>> must be met by the provider and consumer
>>> * Details on message exchange
>>> * A Service Information Model that details the information that is
>>> stored or retrieved by the Service.
>>> One of the key challenges though is where/how to document and store
>>> such information. Ideally, a template such as ours should be turned
>>> into a schema in some form of registry/catalog product - we have for
>>> example worked with IBM WebSphere Service Registry and Repository,
>>> and SAG Centrasite, and also Orbus Software iServer this year to
>>> provide examples of this. It is well beyond the scope of UDDI, so
>>> clearly requires some effort.
>>> However, we do find a lot of reluctance to make this effort -
>>> particularly to make the investment if such a registry/catalog isn't
>>> already in place, and as often as not I believe our template just
>>> becomes rows in an Excel spreadsheet. ... or pages on a wiki.
>>> The other important question to ask is does every service need to be
>>> documented to this extent? But this is a much the age old question of
>>> do I really need to produce this much documentation as much as
>>> anything else.
>>> Answers might be, well only if
>>> * there is true organizational separation of provider and consumer,
>>> or specifier and implementor
>>> * it is a shared service - many consumers
>>> * the behavior is anything other than obvious (e.g. I think I can
>>> guess that the UpdateCustomerPhone Number operation does - but then
>>> again, can I? Does it validate the area code? does it allow
>>> international numbers? never so simple...)
>>> The difficulty then is what doesn't appear to need documenting today,
>>> might do tomorrow. e.g. we never thought it would be shared - but it
>>> One of the things we are working on at the moment is to ensure that
>>> as much as possible of our service specification template can be
>>> captured in our UML profile, so at least the capture can be
>>> 'automated' to some extent (in that properties can be infered from
>>> associations for example, and transformations from UML to XML or
>>> Process-wise, we don't see the Service Spec as something that is
>>> fully developed in one pass. Rather it evolves from just description
>>> level properties at the planning stage, through the detailed
>>> specification of operations at the provisioning stage, to the
>>> addition of technical run-time details once provised and deployed.
>>> But these are all 'views' of the same asset - not different
>>> documents. Equally, new operations may get added over time.
>>> - Lawrence Wilkes, Everware-CBDI
- I would say half-full - SOA as an architectural style is still not solid enough. As of SO Principles, Thomas Earl made a great job by formulating earlyMessage 77 of 77 , Jan 15, 2010View SourceI would say "half-full" - "SOA as an architectural style is still" not solid enough.As of SO Principles, Thomas Earl made a great job by formulating early version of them. Then, he tried to review and re-comment on them when understanding of SOA changed. These very Principles are the most popular and I did not see any explanations from the authors proposing different principles on what was the reason for the difference. I also reviewed the Thomas Earl' edition of SO Principles but I posted pages of my arguments for every change I proposed (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/02/principles_of_service_orientation_reviewed.php). It is another thing if everybody agrees with my version or not but there is a foundation to reach the agreement.- Michael