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Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props and livery

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  • Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan'
    ... I hate to ressurect this ancient history, but about twelve years ago, while Sionyn was Pennon, the Kingdom device sans wreath was sumptuaried because of
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 1, 2001
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      >
      >Actually, the Kingdom badge is fine for anyone to use. You just have to
      >leave out the laurel wreath, that's what indicates the presence of the King
      >himself. The Queen uses the wreath of roses.
      >
      >THL Sigrid
      >

      I hate to ressurect this ancient history, but about twelve years ago, while
      Sionyn was Pennon, the Kingdom device sans wreath was sumptuaried because of
      the Crown on it. The reasoning at the time was that only the Crown and Royal
      Peers had the right to display a crown. I personally did not agree with the
      restriction at the time, and still do not. I do not even know if any one
      remembers the restriction and hope no one does. THIS is the reason folk
      tend to display the two other badges (described in an rarlier post).

      YOUR CHOICE!


      I personally am not a Black and white type person and have a late persona in
      that displaying Arms on my garb is not appropriate so the badge thing has
      not been an issue for me.

      Shalom,

      Shoiel

      P.S. would you consider the above info useless or useful trivia??? :-)

      P.P.S. An interesting note, the first device considered for the Kingdom was
      a cross fimbriated rayone' -- not a good immage for a Kingdom named "SOUTH"
      (source: Sir Phelan Cathmoir -- a class on the history of Meridies)


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    • Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan'
      Yes, that was the reasoning. The part I disagree with is that the crown is an integral part of the Kingdom device and the restriction precludes its desplay
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 1, 2001
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        Yes, that was the reasoning. The part I disagree with is that the crown is
        an integral part of the Kingdom device and the restriction precludes its
        desplay (without the wreath) by the general populace. The uncile-M and bars
        and star are not widely known outside the Kingdom.

        Unfortunately, the Kingdom arms predate the Laurel College decision. It
        would be like restricting the Anstaeorrans from displaying their kingdom
        device without the Anstaeorran star, another restricted charge.

        Glean Abhain included a crown but it is such a minor charge that the issue
        of its inclusion.exclusion on the Principality badge is moot.

        I do not know if anyone has been called down for using the Kingdom Device
        badge. I do not know if anyone will be if the Device badge is used. I also
        do not want to seem like I am inciting a blatant disrespect of the old
        restriction and am not personally going to test the waters. If you really
        do wish to use the Kingdom Device badge, check with Pennon for any
        restrictions or options.

        Shalom,

        Shoiel


        >From: Wendy Colbert <WendyC@...>
        >Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
        >To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props
        >and livery
        >Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:10:12 -0400
        >
        >Dame Sionyn may have taken that position because it is the position of
        >the SCA through the Laurel College of Arms. Only sitting royalty may
        >bear a Crown and only barons (a baronial coronet) and royal peers(
        >county coronets, ducal coronets and viscounty coronets) may bear
        >coronets on their armory.
        >Irene
        >(also a staff member to the Laurel Queen of Arms)
        >
        >Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan' wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > >Actually, the Kingdom badge is fine for anyone to use. You just have
        >to
        > > >leave out the laurel wreath, that's what indicates the presence of the
        >King
        > > >himself. The Queen uses the wreath of roses.
        > > >
        > > >THL Sigrid
        > > >
        > >
        > > I hate to ressurect this ancient history, but about twelve years ago,
        >while
        > > Sionyn was Pennon, the Kingdom device sans wreath was sumptuaried
        >because of
        > > the Crown on it. The reasoning at the time was that only the Crown and
        >Royal
        > > Peers had the right to display a crown. I personally did not agree with
        >the
        > > restriction at the time, and still do not. I do not even know if any
        >one
        > > remembers the restriction and hope no one does. THIS is the reason folk
        > > tend to display the two other badges (described in an rarlier post).
        > >
        > > YOUR CHOICE!
        > >
        > > I personally am not a Black and white type person and have a late
        >persona in
        > > that displaying Arms on my garb is not appropriate so the badge thing
        >has
        > > not been an issue for me.
        > >
        > > Shalom,
        > >
        > > Shoiel
        > >
        > > P.S. would you consider the above info useless or useful trivia???
        >:-)
        > >
        > > P.P.S. An interesting note, the first device considered for the Kingdom
        >was
        > > a cross fimbriated rayone' -- not a good immage for a Kingdom named
        >"SOUTH"
        > > (source: Sir Phelan Cathmoir -- a class on the history of Meridies)
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >

        _________________________________________________________________
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      • rebecca smith
        Actually, my husband, Baron Ragnar, uses it whenever he displays his guidon.(I don t mean a coronet, which he bears on his acchievement of arms) This is quite
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Actually, my husband, Baron Ragnar, uses it whenever he displays his
          guidon.(I don't mean a coronet, which he bears on his acchievement of arms)
          This is quite seldomly since it is very, very long, but it has not only been
          used on several occasions, but with the approval and foreknowledge of the
          Crown. The Kingdom badge that includes the crown was named as part of the
          guidon that members of
          The Order of the Guidon, now closed, are given leave to display. This was
          established by John and Falada. The wording is very detailed as to the
          appearance and size of the order's guidons and never was there a word from
          the heraldic establishment about it. In fact, I remember his knight being
          very insistent that I make one ASAP and that he display it whenever
          possible.

          Other people use it all the time on tabards and tokens. I doubt it bothers
          anyone so long as no one tries to pass such a charge as part of their own
          arms. Just don't use the Laurel or the Roses. That would certainly set off
          alarm bells.

          THL Sigrid

          >From: "Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan'" <shoiel@...>
          >Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
          >To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props
          >and livery
          >Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:08:20 -0000
          >
          >Yes, that was the reasoning. The part I disagree with is that the crown is
          >an integral part of the Kingdom device and the restriction precludes its
          >desplay (without the wreath) by the general populace. The uncile-M and
          >bars
          >and star are not widely known outside the Kingdom.
          >
          >Unfortunately, the Kingdom arms predate the Laurel College decision. It
          >would be like restricting the Anstaeorrans from displaying their kingdom
          >device without the Anstaeorran star, another restricted charge.
          >
          >Glean Abhain included a crown but it is such a minor charge that the issue
          >of its inclusion.exclusion on the Principality badge is moot.
          >
          >I do not know if anyone has been called down for using the Kingdom Device
          >badge. I do not know if anyone will be if the Device badge is used. I
          >also
          >do not want to seem like I am inciting a blatant disrespect of the old
          >restriction and am not personally going to test the waters. If you really
          >do wish to use the Kingdom Device badge, check with Pennon for any
          >restrictions or options.
          >
          >Shalom,
          >
          >Shoiel
          >
          >
          > >From: Wendy Colbert <WendyC@...>
          > >Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props
          > >and livery
          > >Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:10:12 -0400
          > >
          > >Dame Sionyn may have taken that position because it is the position of
          > >the SCA through the Laurel College of Arms. Only sitting royalty may
          > >bear a Crown and only barons (a baronial coronet) and royal peers(
          > >county coronets, ducal coronets and viscounty coronets) may bear
          > >coronets on their armory.
          > >Irene
          > >(also a staff member to the Laurel Queen of Arms)
          > >
          > >Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan' wrote:
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >Actually, the Kingdom badge is fine for anyone to use. You just have
          > >to
          > > > >leave out the laurel wreath, that's what indicates the presence of
          >the
          > >King
          > > > >himself. The Queen uses the wreath of roses.
          > > > >
          > > > >THL Sigrid
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > I hate to ressurect this ancient history, but about twelve years ago,
          > >while
          > > > Sionyn was Pennon, the Kingdom device sans wreath was sumptuaried
          > >because of
          > > > the Crown on it. The reasoning at the time was that only the Crown and
          > >Royal
          > > > Peers had the right to display a crown. I personally did not agree
          >with
          > >the
          > > > restriction at the time, and still do not. I do not even know if any
          > >one
          > > > remembers the restriction and hope no one does. THIS is the reason
          >folk
          > > > tend to display the two other badges (described in an rarlier post).
          > > >
          > > > YOUR CHOICE!
          > > >
          > > > I personally am not a Black and white type person and have a late
          > >persona in
          > > > that displaying Arms on my garb is not appropriate so the badge thing
          > >has
          > > > not been an issue for me.
          > > >
          > > > Shalom,
          > > >
          > > > Shoiel
          > > >
          > > > P.S. would you consider the above info useless or useful trivia???
          > >:-)
          > > >
          > > > P.P.S. An interesting note, the first device considered for the
          >Kingdom
          > >was
          > > > a cross fimbriated rayone' -- not a good immage for a Kingdom named
          > >"SOUTH"
          > > > (source: Sir Phelan Cathmoir -- a class on the history of Meridies)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >_________________________________________________________________
          >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
        • Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan'
          Mundania does not count. :-) Shoiel ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 1, 2001
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            Mundania does not count. :-)

            Shoiel


            >From: "Stephen R. Gardner" <SteveG@...>
            >Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
            >To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props
            >and livery
            >Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:20:42 -0700
            >
            >A number of years back, a merchant at Gulf Wars was selling stickers
            >of the kingdom arms. Bought one, put it on my truck, it's still there.
            >
            >No one has said a thing about it. Can't say I have seen many
            >"Comet M's" [uncile-M] over the same time period. Besides how
            >can 'they' enforce the ruling?
            >
            >
            >Stefan
            >Iron Mtn
            >
            >
            > > The part I disagree with is that the crown is
            > > an integral part of the Kingdom device and the restriction precludes
            > > its
            > > desplay (without the wreath) by the general populace. The uncile-M
            > > and bars
            > > and star are not widely known outside the Kingdom.
            > >
            > >
            > > Shoiel
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
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          • Shoiel ben Yisrael of Poznan'
            Under the restriction (if still inforced): T-shirts are okay T-tunics not. Shoiel ... From: Q vaD Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com To:
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 2, 2001
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              Under the restriction (if still inforced):

              T-shirts are okay

              T-tunics not.

              Shoiel

              ----Original Message Follows----
              From: "Q'vaD" <qvad@...>
              Reply-To: serapier@yahoogroups.com
              To: <serapier@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props and
              livery
              Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:31:54 -0400

              My car also sports one of these window decals. I don't know that I'm
              expressing exactly what I want to here, but as I see it, since cars are
              essentially a mundane necessity and thus outside the scope of the Society I
              just don't see anyone could seriously suggest that the device is
              inappropriate in that context.

              Rhys

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen R. Gardner" <SteveG@...>
              To: <serapier@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:20 AM
              Subject: Re: [serapier] Meridian Kingdom Badge/Device // was:Movie props and
              livery


              > A number of years back, a merchant at Gulf Wars was selling stickers
              > of the kingdom arms. Bought one, put it on my truck, it's still there.
              >
              > No one has said a thing about it. Can't say I have seen many
              > "Comet M's" [uncile-M] over the same time period. Besides how
              > can 'they' enforce the ruling?
              >
              >
              > Stefan
              > Iron Mtn
              >
              >
              > > The part I disagree with is that the crown is
              > > an integral part of the Kingdom device and the restriction precludes
              > > its
              > > desplay (without the wreath) by the general populace. The uncile-M
              > > and bars
              > > and star are not widely known outside the Kingdom.
              > >
              > >
              > > Shoiel
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >




              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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