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[self-interest] Re: JSelf Home Page

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  • Luis Campos de Carvalho
    Diego Gomez Deck wrote: The thing is getting better... ... -- ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luis Campos de
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 3, 1998
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      Diego Gomez Deck wrote:

      The thing is getting better...

      > One very simple Home Page for the JSelf project has borned in http://www.ConsultAr.com/JSelf
      > All of you are invited...

      --
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      Luis Campos de Carvalho - Undergraduate Student at University of São
      Paulo
      http://www.lsi.usp.br/~campos
      mailto:campos@...

      Train Station is the place where the train stops.
      Bus Station is the place where the bus stops.
      On my desktop, I have a WORKstation... :-)

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    • Jecel Assumpcao Jr
      Diego Gomez Deck wrote: One very simple Home Page for the JSelf project has borned in http://www.ConsultAr.com/JSelf All of you are invited...Once
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 4, 1998
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        Diego Gomez Deck wrote:
        >
        > One very simple Home Page for the JSelf project has borned in http://www.ConsultAr.com/JSelf
        >
        > All of you are invited...

        Once again, I'd like to say that this is a very worthwhile effort
        and it will be very important to be able to run Self code inside
        a web browser without having to load a huge plug-in.

        While Java and Python have a lot of things in common, Self is not
        class based which might complicate things a little for you. JPython
        allows you do subclass a Java class (Applet, for example) with Python
        code. When you make an object inherit from another in Self, however,
        it does not get a copy of the state of that object (instance variables
        in class based languages) but shares that state instead. The Self 4.0
        programming environment simulates this class-like behavior with what
        are called "copy down slots", but this isn't part of the language
        itself.

        The only other problem I see is that if you translate Self self-send
        bytecodes to Java send bytecodes, the performance will be horrible.
        If, on the other hand, you translate these bytecodes to more specific
        Java bytecodes (instance variable and constant bytecodes, for example)
        then you will have to have a complex dependency mechanism to undo this
        if the user changes the Self sources.

        -- Jecel
        P.S.: if everybody working with Self is in South America, maybe my
        future Self book should be in Spanish/Portuguese instead of English? ;-)


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      • Steve Dekorte
        ... Doesn t Java count as Java a huge plug-in ? :-) I know Netscape is moving it to the plug-in side, at least. And Java is certainly huge in size and
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 4, 1998
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          >Once again, I'd like to say that this is a very worthwhile effort
          >and it will be very important to be able to run Self code inside
          >a web browser without having to load a huge plug-in.

          Doesn't Java count as Java a "huge plug-in"? :-)

          I know Netscape is moving it to the plug-in side, at least.
          And Java is certainly huge in size and complexity.

          I don't see how mapping Self like language to Java byte codes
          is possible, but even if it where, wouldn't it be better to
          write a small, fast VM and stick it inside an Active-X control
          for Netscape and a COM object for IE?

          Steve
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        • Diego Gomez Deck
          The principal idea behind the JSelf porting is not to execute in a browser.... (This is a secondary efect) The ideas will be writed soon in a document called
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 4, 1998
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            The principal idea behind the JSelf porting is not to execute in a browser.... (This is a secondary efect)

            The ideas will be writed soon in a document called "Why JSelf?".

            Before this document becomes available I'll tell you why we believe in a Java Port.

            1) Run Everywhere. All of us thinks that one pendient thing of Self is the posibility of run in too many machines.
            2) Garbage Collector. The actual implementation of Java GC not are to good, but they are working... (And many people is working in do them better!)
            3) And.... HotSpot... We beleive that some of the work to make the JSelf performance aceptable is current in process in JavaSoft.... Another chance is the GNU-Spot project....

            The project are in the initial stage, too many definition are pending, but we have in mind 3 stages in the project
            a) Interpreter (No care of performance)
            b) Runtime Bytecode generation (A la JPython)
            c) Dinamic Runtime Bytecode generation, type inference and.... all the necesary to make the JSelf usable.

            TIA,

            (|diego. gomez. deck|)

            PS: If i spend the time writing mails, I can't work in the project.

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          • Diego Gomez Deck
            The principal idea to make the Java classes available to the JSelf environment is to show the Java classes as a set of Self Objects: one trait that represent
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 4, 1998
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              The principal idea to make the Java classes available to the JSelf environment is to show the Java classes as a set of Self Objects:

              one trait that represent the class and,
              one prototype per constructor.

              For the constructor with parameters we will use a copy message with parameters.

              This is the very preliminar idea,

              All your comments help to the project....


              (|diego. gomez. deck|)

              PS: I like that many people is interesed in the project


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            • DiegoG@Crear.com.ar
              The JSelf project is temporary paused because time reasons. When we get some time, we ll spend on JSelf. I m very pleased to see many Self related projects.
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 9, 1999
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                The JSelf project is temporary paused because time reasons.

                When we get some time, we'll spend on JSelf.

                I'm very pleased to see many Self related projects.

                (|diego. gomez. deck|)

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