Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [seleukids] Re: The fantastic plan to conquer Persia - did it really succeed?

Expand Messages
  • Pierre R. Monney
    well, Jens, The king, father of Alexander, was obviously Philippos II, king of Macedonia... Pierre The information contained in this message is legally
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      well, Jens,
      The king, father of Alexander, was obviously Philippos II, king of Macedonia...
      Pierre




      The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.



      Le 1 avr. 2012 à 20:30, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@...> a écrit :

      > Well, the day is a bit dubious...:) If I rephrase it: did the king in the story succeed? And who was he?
      >
      > All best,
      > Jens
      >
      > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > The question asks for a revision of historical facts....is this an "April fools"question ?
      > > Pierre
      > >
      > >
      > > --------------------------------
      > > The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Le 1 avr. 2012 à 12:40, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@...> a écrit :
      > >
      > > >
      > > > On this significant date in Seleucid history â€" recent cuneiform
      > > > evidence dates the Babylonian spring festival of Seleucus' mother
      > > > Laodice's immaculate impregnation by Apollo to this very day â€" it is
      > > > perhaps time to discuss the background of Hellenistic period: was the
      > > > conquest of the Persian Empire really possible? (In recent days, Russian
      > > > scholars such as Fomenko have in fact claimed that this conquest was
      > > > fictional.)
      > > >
      > > > The following passage, found on page one in my book Alexander's
      > > > Heirs <http://www.alexandersarvtagare.se/english1.html> (Alexanders
      > > > Arvtagare in Swedish), discusses if a certain dynasty of a
      > > > semi-barbarian state north of Greece was able to unite the Greek
      > > > polis-states, and then attack the Persian Empire. I've already given
      > > > my solution to this difficult question (on page two). However, I am but
      > > > an amateur. What do the experts on Hellenistic history say? Did the
      > > > ambitions of the king in the passage below really come true? Yes or no?
      > > >
      > > > "A fantastic plan
      > > > Once upon a time, there was a Greek king. Well, actually he wasn't a
      > > > real Greek. He ruled a kingdom a bit north of the Greek cities, and his
      > > > people spoke their own dialect and had their own customs. In the eyes of
      > > > the Greeks they were savage andp rimitive, but the nobles of the little
      > > > kingdom had managed to learn the Classical Greek language and tried to
      > > > imitate at least some aspects of the sophisticated Greek culture.
      > > >
      > > > The Greeks were notable for their lack of unity. Each city was its own
      > > > tiny state and the cities were always at loggerheads. Not even when the
      > > > Persian Empire had attacked Greece (the Persian invasions took place
      > > > between c. 490-480 BCE), and threatened to devour all of the cities, did
      > > > the Greeks manage to unite more than temporarilyâ€" and grudgingly
      > > > â€" and after their famous victory against the Persians, the cities
      > > > returned to their internal quarrels again. Athens became thel eader
      > > > during the 5th century BCE, but Athens was defeated by Sparta in the
      > > > Peloponnesian war (431-404 BCE). Shortly after, Sparta was defeated by
      > > > Thebes, but in the end the incessant wars weakened all of the cities.
      > > >
      > > > Our king was a very ambitious man with mighty plans for his small
      > > > kingdom. If anybody should be able to unite the Greek states, this man
      > > > had to be an outsider, an outsider with the power to suppress those
      > > > cities who would no doubt oppose the union.O ur king had a forceful
      > > > army, so why not him? Once the Greeks had been united under his banner,
      > > > who knows what could be achieved? The shadow of the Persian Empire still
      > > > loomed over the Greeks, a dark menace in the east, even though its kings
      > > > were exhausted by civil wars and other setbacks. A massive campaign
      > > > against the Persians might well succeed, for the Greek warfare was state
      > > > of the art in the ancient world. Perhaps the king could reach even
      > > > India, if only he managed to unite the Greek cities?
      > > >
      > > > Unfortunately, the king never got as far as to sort things up in his own
      > > > kingdom, for when he was about to lead the great games in honour of the
      > > > Oracle of Delphi, he was murdered by some of his own noblemen for the
      > > > sake of some old grudge. It was now up to his son, Alexander, to fulfil
      > > > the fantastic plan and become the Great King of an enormous empire, the
      > > > like of which the world had never seen. Was it really possible?"
      > > >
      > > > Please post your reply - the world needs to know!
      > > >
      > > > Jens Jakobsson
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jens
      Dear Pierre and everybody, a good guess, but this was an April fools question, as you suspected! :) The king I intended was Jason of Pherai (c.380-370 BC), who
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 2, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Pierre and everybody,

        a good guess, but this was an April fools question, as you suspected! :)

        The king I intended was Jason of Pherai (c.380-370 BC), who ruled a kingdom in Thessaly, north of the proper Greek polis-states, with its own dialect. Jason was very ambitious; he tried to unite the Greeks for a campaign against the Persians (at least Xenophon claims this in Hellenica), but he was murdered by his own countrymen at Delphi (unlike Philip II, who was murdered by his own countrymen in Macedonia). Jason then presumably left the great plan to his son and heir, Alexander of Pherai.

        So far, there are many peculiar similarities to the story of Philip II, but Alexander of Pherai failed completely; he was murdered by his own wife around 359 BCE, after a reign fraught with cruelty and domestic disturbances. And soon after this, Pherai was taken over by Macedonia.

        So in hindsight, the king's fantastic plan proved impossible. However, on page 2 in my book, I continue with a similar fantastic plan of Philip II and his son, also named Alexander. This Alexander was of course far more successful - at least until page 3, where he dies. Which is where the book starts properly: it is after all called Alexander's Heirs. It's published in Swedish but I hope to get an English version out - if anyone has suggestions for publishers I'll be most grateful (even e-books). There are a few samples on:

        www.alexandersarvtagare.se/english1.html
        for those interested.

        As for the Russian lunatic Fomenko, who claims that Ancient history is a hoax, I hope he doesn't read this post! :) For he would probably claim that the three stories of ambitious kings from the region of northern Greece - Jason, Philip II and Pyrrhus, and their heirs Alexander, Alexander and Alexander - were just three garbled versions of something that happened in Russia in the Middle Ages. But I digress.

        Thanks for participating!
        Jens Jakobsson

        --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@...> wrote:
        >
        > well, Jens,
        > The king, father of Alexander, was obviously Philippos II, king of Macedonia...
        > Pierre
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.
        >
        >
        >
        > Le 1 avr. 2012 à 20:30, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@...> a écrit :
        >
        > > Well, the day is a bit dubious...:) If I rephrase it: did the king in the story succeed? And who was he?
        > >
        > > All best,
        > > Jens
        > >
        > > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > The question asks for a revision of historical facts....is this an "April fools"question ?
        > > > Pierre
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --------------------------------
        > > > The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Le 1 avr. 2012 à 12:40, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@> a écrit :
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On this significant date in Seleucid history â€" recent cuneiform
        > > > > evidence dates the Babylonian spring festival of Seleucus' mother
        > > > > Laodice's immaculate impregnation by Apollo to this very day â€" it is
        > > > > perhaps time to discuss the background of Hellenistic period: was the
        > > > > conquest of the Persian Empire really possible? (In recent days, Russian
        > > > > scholars such as Fomenko have in fact claimed that this conquest was
        > > > > fictional.)
        > > > >
        > > > > The following passage, found on page one in my book Alexander's
        > > > > Heirs <http://www.alexandersarvtagare.se/english1.html> (Alexanders
        > > > > Arvtagare in Swedish), discusses if a certain dynasty of a
        > > > > semi-barbarian state north of Greece was able to unite the Greek
        > > > > polis-states, and then attack the Persian Empire. I've already given
        > > > > my solution to this difficult question (on page two). However, I am but
        > > > > an amateur. What do the experts on Hellenistic history say? Did the
        > > > > ambitions of the king in the passage below really come true? Yes or no?
        > > > >
        > > > > "A fantastic plan
        > > > > Once upon a time, there was a Greek king. Well, actually he wasn't a
        > > > > real Greek. He ruled a kingdom a bit north of the Greek cities, and his
        > > > > people spoke their own dialect and had their own customs. In the eyes of
        > > > > the Greeks they were savage andp rimitive, but the nobles of the little
        > > > > kingdom had managed to learn the Classical Greek language and tried to
        > > > > imitate at least some aspects of the sophisticated Greek culture.
        > > > >
        > > > > The Greeks were notable for their lack of unity. Each city was its own
        > > > > tiny state and the cities were always at loggerheads. Not even when the
        > > > > Persian Empire had attacked Greece (the Persian invasions took place
        > > > > between c. 490-480 BCE), and threatened to devour all of the cities, did
        > > > > the Greeks manage to unite more than temporarilyâ€" and grudgingly
        > > > > â€" and after their famous victory against the Persians, the cities
        > > > > returned to their internal quarrels again. Athens became thel eader
        > > > > during the 5th century BCE, but Athens was defeated by Sparta in the
        > > > > Peloponnesian war (431-404 BCE). Shortly after, Sparta was defeated by
        > > > > Thebes, but in the end the incessant wars weakened all of the cities.
        > > > >
        > > > > Our king was a very ambitious man with mighty plans for his small
        > > > > kingdom. If anybody should be able to unite the Greek states, this man
        > > > > had to be an outsider, an outsider with the power to suppress those
        > > > > cities who would no doubt oppose the union.O ur king had a forceful
        > > > > army, so why not him? Once the Greeks had been united under his banner,
        > > > > who knows what could be achieved? The shadow of the Persian Empire still
        > > > > loomed over the Greeks, a dark menace in the east, even though its kings
        > > > > were exhausted by civil wars and other setbacks. A massive campaign
        > > > > against the Persians might well succeed, for the Greek warfare was state
        > > > > of the art in the ancient world. Perhaps the king could reach even
        > > > > India, if only he managed to unite the Greek cities?
        > > > >
        > > > > Unfortunately, the king never got as far as to sort things up in his own
        > > > > kingdom, for when he was about to lead the great games in honour of the
        > > > > Oracle of Delphi, he was murdered by some of his own noblemen for the
        > > > > sake of some old grudge. It was now up to his son, Alexander, to fulfil
        > > > > the fantastic plan and become the Great King of an enormous empire, the
        > > > > like of which the world had never seen. Was it really possible?"
        > > > >
        > > > > Please post your reply - the world needs to know!
        > > > >
        > > > > Jens Jakobsson
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Pierre R. Monney
        Dear Jens, Thank you for letting us know about a rarely exposed historical event. Waitung to hear from you before next April 1st..! cheers, Pierre ... The
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 2, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Jens,
          Thank you for letting us know about a rarely exposed historical event.
          Waitung to hear from you before next April 1st..!
          cheers,
          Pierre

          -------------------

          The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.



          Le 2 avr. 2012 à 11:57, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@...> a écrit :

          >
          >
          > Dear Pierre and everybody,
          >
          > a good guess, but this was an April fools question, as you suspected! :)
          >
          > The king I intended was Jason of Pherai (c.380-370 BC), who ruled a kingdom in Thessaly, north of the proper Greek polis-states, with its own dialect. Jason was very ambitious; he tried to unite the Greeks for a campaign against the Persians (at least Xenophon claims this in Hellenica), but he was murdered by his own countrymen at Delphi (unlike Philip II, who was murdered by his own countrymen in Macedonia). Jason then presumably left the great plan to his son and heir, Alexander of Pherai.
          >
          > So far, there are many peculiar similarities to the story of Philip II, but Alexander of Pherai failed completely; he was murdered by his own wife around 359 BCE, after a reign fraught with cruelty and domestic disturbances. And soon after this, Pherai was taken over by Macedonia.
          >
          > So in hindsight, the king's fantastic plan proved impossible. However, on page 2 in my book, I continue with a similar fantastic plan of Philip II and his son, also named Alexander. This Alexander was of course far more successful - at least until page 3, where he dies. Which is where the book starts properly: it is after all called Alexander's Heirs. It's published in Swedish but I hope to get an English version out - if anyone has suggestions for publishers I'll be most grateful (even e-books). There are a few samples on:
          >
          > www.alexandersarvtagare.se/english1.html
          > for those interested.
          >
          > As for the Russian lunatic Fomenko, who claims that Ancient history is a hoax, I hope he doesn't read this post! :) For he would probably claim that the three stories of ambitious kings from the region of northern Greece - Jason, Philip II and Pyrrhus, and their heirs Alexander, Alexander and Alexander - were just three garbled versions of something that happened in Russia in the Middle Ages. But I digress.
          >
          > Thanks for participating!
          > Jens Jakobsson
          >
          > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > well, Jens,
          > > The king, father of Alexander, was obviously Philippos II, king of Macedonia...
          > > Pierre
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Le 1 avr. 2012 à 20:30, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@...> a écrit :
          > >
          > > > Well, the day is a bit dubious...:) If I rephrase it: did the king in the story succeed? And who was he?
          > > >
          > > > All best,
          > > > Jens
          > > >
          > > > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > The question asks for a revision of historical facts....is this an "April fools"question ?
          > > > > Pierre
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --------------------------------
          > > > > The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and either return the original message at the address above or confirm its immediate destruction. Thank you.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Le 1 avr. 2012 à 12:40, "Jens" <jens.jakobsson@> a écrit :
          > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On this significant date in Seleucid history â€" recent cuneiform
          > > > > > evidence dates the Babylonian spring festival of Seleucus' mother
          > > > > > Laodice's immaculate impregnation by Apollo to this very day â€" it is
          > > > > > perhaps time to discuss the background of Hellenistic period: was the
          > > > > > conquest of the Persian Empire really possible? (In recent days, Russian
          > > > > > scholars such as Fomenko have in fact claimed that this conquest was
          > > > > > fictional.)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The following passage, found on page one in my book Alexander's
          > > > > > Heirs <http://www.alexandersarvtagare.se/english1.html> (Alexanders
          > > > > > Arvtagare in Swedish), discusses if a certain dynasty of a
          > > > > > semi-barbarian state north of Greece was able to unite the Greek
          > > > > > polis-states, and then attack the Persian Empire. I've already given
          > > > > > my solution to this difficult question (on page two). However, I am but
          > > > > > an amateur. What do the experts on Hellenistic history say? Did the
          > > > > > ambitions of the king in the passage below really come true? Yes or no?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > "A fantastic plan
          > > > > > Once upon a time, there was a Greek king. Well, actually he wasn't a
          > > > > > real Greek. He ruled a kingdom a bit north of the Greek cities, and his
          > > > > > people spoke their own dialect and had their own customs. In the eyes of
          > > > > > the Greeks they were savage andp rimitive, but the nobles of the little
          > > > > > kingdom had managed to learn the Classical Greek language and tried to
          > > > > > imitate at least some aspects of the sophisticated Greek culture.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The Greeks were notable for their lack of unity. Each city was its own
          > > > > > tiny state and the cities were always at loggerheads. Not even when the
          > > > > > Persian Empire had attacked Greece (the Persian invasions took place
          > > > > > between c. 490-480 BCE), and threatened to devour all of the cities, did
          > > > > > the Greeks manage to unite more than temporarilyâ€" and grudgingly
          > > > > > â€" and after their famous victory against the Persians, the cities
          > > > > > returned to their internal quarrels again. Athens became thel eader
          > > > > > during the 5th century BCE, but Athens was defeated by Sparta in the
          > > > > > Peloponnesian war (431-404 BCE). Shortly after, Sparta was defeated by
          > > > > > Thebes, but in the end the incessant wars weakened all of the cities.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Our king was a very ambitious man with mighty plans for his small
          > > > > > kingdom. If anybody should be able to unite the Greek states, this man
          > > > > > had to be an outsider, an outsider with the power to suppress those
          > > > > > cities who would no doubt oppose the union.O ur king had a forceful
          > > > > > army, so why not him? Once the Greeks had been united under his banner,
          > > > > > who knows what could be achieved? The shadow of the Persian Empire still
          > > > > > loomed over the Greeks, a dark menace in the east, even though its kings
          > > > > > were exhausted by civil wars and other setbacks. A massive campaign
          > > > > > against the Persians might well succeed, for the Greek warfare was state
          > > > > > of the art in the ancient world. Perhaps the king could reach even
          > > > > > India, if only he managed to unite the Greek cities?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Unfortunately, the king never got as far as to sort things up in his own
          > > > > > kingdom, for when he was about to lead the great games in honour of the
          > > > > > Oracle of Delphi, he was murdered by some of his own noblemen for the
          > > > > > sake of some old grudge. It was now up to his son, Alexander, to fulfil
          > > > > > the fantastic plan and become the Great King of an enormous empire, the
          > > > > > like of which the world had never seen. Was it really possible?"
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Please post your reply - the world needs to know!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Jens Jakobsson
          > > > > >
          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Webster
          ... From: Pierre R. Monney To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [seleukids] Re: The
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 2, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Pierre R. Monney " <pmonney2@...>
            To: <seleukids@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 4:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [seleukids] Re: The fantastic plan to conquer Persia - did it
            really succeed?


            Dear Jens,
            Thank you for letting us know about a rarely exposed historical event.
            Waitung to hear from you before next April 1st..!
            cheers,
            Pierre

            -------------------

            I'd second that, it was interesting
            Jim
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.