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New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)

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  • Spek, R.J. van der
    Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia, Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the Bagayasha
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 25, 2011
      Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia,

      Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the "Bagayasha chronicle" online. It is an extremely difficult text which still defies proper understanding, but readers may help us. We think that we have made so much progress and have lost so much hope that we decided to an "evulgetur".

      The text after all appears to be not a chronicle, but part of an astronomical diary of about the 130s BC.

      We invite scholars to suggest new interpretations.

      We have another fragment concerning Bagayasha in stock, which will be published ASAP.

      You can find it here:
      http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-bagayasha/bchp-bagayasha1.html

      We thank Jona Lendering for making it freely accessible and hosting it on his www.livius.org<http://www.livius.org> website.

      Have fun,

      Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
      Professor of Ancient History
      Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
      Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
      Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
      De Boelelaan 1105
      1081 HV Amsterdam
      Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
      Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
      http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
      http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
      http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php



      ________________________________
      I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
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    • dumitru adrian
      Professor Van der Spek, may I ask if the peliganes appearing at B3 is a safe reading? Isn t there any doubt about it? Thank you, Adrian Dumitru
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 26, 2011
        Professor Van der Spek,

        may I ask if the peliganes appearing at B3 is a safe reading? Isn't there any doubt about it?

        Thank you,

        Adrian Dumitru


        ________________________________
        From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...>
        To: "Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com" <Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com>; "Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com" <Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com>; "Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com" <Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com>; "seleukids@yahoogroups.com" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com>; "jack.m.sasson@..." <jack.m.sasson@...>
        Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:02 PM
        Subject: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)


         
        Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia,

        Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the "Bagayasha chronicle" online. It is an extremely difficult text which still defies proper understanding, but readers may help us. We think that we have made so much progress and have lost so much hope that we decided to an "evulgetur".

        The text after all appears to be not a chronicle, but part of an astronomical diary of about the 130s BC.

        We invite scholars to suggest new interpretations.

        We have another fragment concerning Bagayasha in stock, which will be published ASAP.

        You can find it here:
        http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-bagayasha/bchp-bagayasha1.html

        We thank Jona Lendering for making it freely accessible and hosting it on his www.livius.org<http://www.livius.org> website.

        Have fun,

        Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
        Professor of Ancient History
        Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
        Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
        Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
        De Boelelaan 1105
        1081 HV Amsterdam
        Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
        Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
        http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
        http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
        http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php

        ________________________________
        I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
        SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

        Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Spek, R.J. van der
        Dear Mr. Dumitru, There is no doubt indeed. Unfortunately there is no context. The words before are difficult to explain. And the rest is broken. It is
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 26, 2011
          Dear Mr. Dumitru,

          There is no doubt indeed. Unfortunately there is no context. The words before are difficult to explain. And the rest is broken.

          It is tantalizing indeed.

          Sincerely,


          Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
          Professor of Ancient History
          Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
          Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
          Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
          De Boelelaan 1105
          1081 HV Amsterdam
          Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
          Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
          http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
          http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
          http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php




          Van: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] Namens dumitru adrian
          Verzonden: dinsdag 26 juli 2011 17:16
          Aan: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
          Onderwerp: Re: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)



          Professor Van der Spek,

          may I ask if the peliganes appearing at B3 is a safe reading? Isn't there any doubt about it?

          Thank you,

          Adrian Dumitru

          ________________________________
          From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...<mailto:rj.vander.spek%40let.vu.nl>>
          To: "Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>" <Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>>; "seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>>; "jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>" <jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>>
          Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:02 PM
          Subject: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)


          Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia,

          Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the "Bagayasha chronicle" online. It is an extremely difficult text which still defies proper understanding, but readers may help us. We think that we have made so much progress and have lost so much hope that we decided to an "evulgetur".

          The text after all appears to be not a chronicle, but part of an astronomical diary of about the 130s BC.

          We invite scholars to suggest new interpretations.

          We have another fragment concerning Bagayasha in stock, which will be published ASAP.

          You can find it here:
          http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-bagayasha/bchp-bagayasha1.html

          We thank Jona Lendering for making it freely accessible and hosting it on his www.livius.org<http://www.livius.org> website.

          Have fun,

          Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
          Professor of Ancient History
          Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
          Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
          Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
          De Boelelaan 1105
          1081 HV Amsterdam
          Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
          Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
          http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
          http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
          http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php

          ________________________________
          I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
          SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

          Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          ________________________________
          I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
          SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

          Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dumitru adrian
          Professor Van Der Spek, I would have expected adeiganes, for they are mentioned in Seleukeia ad Tigrim. Perhaps the proposed emmendatio to the Polybian text
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 26, 2011
            Professor Van Der Spek,

            I would have expected adeiganes, for they are mentioned in Seleukeia ad Tigrim. Perhaps the proposed emmendatio to the Polybian text is then correct, and we should read peliganes instead of adeiganes.
            Still, this second occurence in the Near East of this Macedonian institution is tantalizing. Especially since it comes at the Parthian period, thus confirming once more, if needed, that nothing was changed.
            Just like you (and I am sure we are not alone in this) I wish we could know more about the real significance of this word.

            Yours,

            Adrian Dumitru


            ________________________________
            From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...>
            To: "seleukids@yahoogroups.com" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:28 PM
            Subject: RE: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)


             
            Dear Mr. Dumitru,

            There is no doubt indeed. Unfortunately there is no context. The words before are difficult to explain. And the rest is broken.

            It is tantalizing indeed.

            Sincerely,


            Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
            Professor of Ancient History
            Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
            Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
            Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
            De Boelelaan 1105
            1081 HV Amsterdam
            Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
            Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
            http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
            http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
            http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php




            Van: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] Namens dumitru adrian
            Verzonden: dinsdag 26 juli 2011 17:16
            Aan: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
            Onderwerp: Re: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)



            Professor Van der Spek,

            may I ask if the peliganes appearing at B3 is a safe reading? Isn't there any doubt about it?

            Thank you,

            Adrian Dumitru

            ________________________________
            From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...<mailto:rj.vander.spek%40let.vu.nl>>
            To: "Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>" <Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>>; "seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>>; "jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>" <jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>>
            Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:02 PM
            Subject: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)


            Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia,

            Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the "Bagayasha chronicle" online. It is an extremely difficult text which still defies proper understanding, but readers may help us. We think that we have made so much progress and have lost so much hope that we decided to an "evulgetur".

            The text after all appears to be not a chronicle, but part of an astronomical diary of about the 130s BC.

            We invite scholars to suggest new interpretations.

            We have another fragment concerning Bagayasha in stock, which will be published ASAP.

            You can find it here:
            http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-bagayasha/bchp-bagayasha1.html

            We thank Jona Lendering for making it freely accessible and hosting it on his www.livius.org<http://www.livius.org> website.

            Have fun,

            Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
            Professor of Ancient History
            Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
            Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
            Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
            De Boelelaan 1105
            1081 HV Amsterdam
            Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
            Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
            http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
            http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
            http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php

            ________________________________
            I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
            SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

            Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ________________________________
            I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
            SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

            Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Spek, R.J. van der
            Adeiganes was long recognized as a corruption. Peliganes is mentioned more often, so there is no doubt. See the commentary. One might consider that in this
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 26, 2011
              Adeiganes was long recognized as a corruption. Peliganes is mentioned more often, so there is no doubt. See the commentary.
              One might consider that in this cuneiform text the Peliganes of Seleucia are meant, but that does seem rather unlikely.
              Peliganes is a Macedonian word, meaning “elders”
              Yours,
              Bert van der Spek

              Van: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] Namens dumitru adrian
              Verzonden: dinsdag 26 juli 2011 18:48
              Aan: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
              Onderwerp: Re: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)



              Professor Van Der Spek,

              I would have expected adeiganes, for they are mentioned in Seleukeia ad Tigrim. Perhaps the proposed emmendatio to the Polybian text is then correct, and we should read peliganes instead of adeiganes.
              Still, this second occurence in the Near East of this Macedonian institution is tantalizing. Especially since it comes at the Parthian period, thus confirming once more, if needed, that nothing was changed.
              Just like you (and I am sure we are not alone in this) I wish we could know more about the real significance of this word.

              Yours,

              Adrian Dumitru

              ________________________________
              From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...<mailto:rj.vander.spek%40let.vu.nl>>
              To: "seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>>
              Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:28 PM
              Subject: RE: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)


              Dear Mr. Dumitru,

              There is no doubt indeed. Unfortunately there is no context. The words before are difficult to explain. And the rest is broken.

              It is tantalizing indeed.

              Sincerely,

              Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
              Professor of Ancient History
              Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
              Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
              Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
              De Boelelaan 1105
              1081 HV Amsterdam
              Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
              Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
              http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
              http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
              http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php

              Van: seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>] Namens dumitru adrian
              Verzonden: dinsdag 26 juli 2011 17:16
              Aan: seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>
              Onderwerp: Re: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)

              Professor Van der Spek,

              may I ask if the peliganes appearing at B3 is a safe reading? Isn't there any doubt about it?

              Thank you,

              Adrian Dumitru

              ________________________________
              From: "Spek, R.J. van der" <rj.vander.spek@...<mailto:rj.vander.spek%40let.vu.nl><mailto:rj.vander.spek%40let.vu.nl>>
              To: "Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Iranica-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Iranica-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <Parthia-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Parthia-L%40yahoogroups.com>>; "Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>" <Hellenistica@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Hellenistica%40yahoogroups.com>>; "seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>" <seleukids@yahoogroups.com<mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:seleukids%40yahoogroups.com>>; "jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com><mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>" <jack.m.sasson@...<mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com><mailto:jack.m.sasson%40gmail.com>>
              Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:02 PM
              Subject: [seleukids] New Parthian chronographic text concerning Bagayasha online (BCHP 18 A+B)

              Dear colleagues and students of Parthian Babylonia,

              Finally, after years of struggling, Irving Finkel and I decided that it is time to bring the "Bagayasha chronicle" online. It is an extremely difficult text which still defies proper understanding, but readers may help us. We think that we have made so much progress and have lost so much hope that we decided to an "evulgetur".

              The text after all appears to be not a chronicle, but part of an astronomical diary of about the 130s BC.

              We invite scholars to suggest new interpretations.

              We have another fragment concerning Bagayasha in stock, which will be published ASAP.

              You can find it here:
              http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-bagayasha/bchp-bagayasha1.html

              We thank Jona Lendering for making it freely accessible and hosting it on his www.livius.org<http://www.livius.org> website.

              Have fun,

              Prof.dr. R.J. (Bert) van der Spek
              Professor of Ancient History
              Vrije Universiteit / VU University Amsterdam
              Faculteit der Letteren / Faculty of Arts
              Afdeling Oudheid / Dept. of Archaeology, Classics and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
              De Boelelaan 1105
              1081 HV Amsterdam
              Tel.: +31 (0)20 5986490
              Fax: +31 (0)20 5986500
              http://www.let.vu.nl/en/staff/rj.vander.spek
              http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html
              http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/babylon.php

              ________________________________
              I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
              SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

              Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ________________________________
              I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
              SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

              Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              ________________________________
              I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len>.
              SPAMfighter has removed 117 of my spam emails to date.

              Do you have a slow PC?<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try free scan!


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