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Re: Cleopatra Thea Coins

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  • egil4870
    Hi! I don t know of any of this could be helpful, but I usually start my searches on Wildwinds , which has a
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 6, 2006
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      Hi!

      I don't know of any of this could be helpful, but I usually start my
      searches on Wildwinds <http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/i.html> ,
      which has a really nice collection of coins for each king (look under
      "Seleucia" to find the Seleucid kings"), as well as links to other
      collections at the end of each page. It seems they have none of Balas
      and Thea, but several of Antiochos Grypos and Cleopatra Thea.
      Coinarchives <http://www.coinarchives.com/a/> has at least one
      specimen, with Zeus Nikephoros enthroned as reverse.

      On this page of Snible.org
      <http://www.snible.org/coins/bmc/index.html#syria> there are links to
      reproductions of the plates of all Seleucid kings in the collection of
      the British Museum, and there is at least one other coin of Balas &
      Cleopatra Thea, this time with a cornucopia reverse.

      From what I can gather from Oliver Hoover's homepage - he knows better
      of course - The American Numismatic Society has only published the first
      part of their collections of Seleucid coins, and so not reached
      Cleopatra Thea yet.

      There is a book called "The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins"
      which seems very promising, with almost 3000 illustrations of coins.

      There are earlier examples of Seleucid women appearing on coins:
      It is possible that Laodike the queen of Seleukos IV struck coins for
      her infant son, the king who is usually called "Antiochos son of
      Seleukos" or "Antiochos the Child" and ruled very briefly around 175 BCE
      before being dethroned by Antiochos IV Epiphanes. Laodike is on the
      obverse but not mentioned in the legend on the coins, which have
      bottlecap borders and an elephant's head on the reverse. However, there
      seems to be some uncertainty concerning this.

      Demetrios I pictures his queen and sister Laodike in a conjoined bust on
      some of his coins, but AFAIK she isn't mentioned on the legend either.
      This is of course only a few years before the appearance of Thea.

      Now this may be a stupid suggestion, but have you checked out
      Agathokleia, queen regent for the Indo-Greek king Straton I? She has
      been said to have been the queen of Menander I, but the modern view is
      that she was later, perhaps around 100 BCE. She has some really
      interesting coins.

      Best regards

      Jens Jakobsson

      --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "kgeshorty" <kgeshorty@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      > I am writing my MA on divinity of Hellenistic queens and am trying to
      > write a chapter on the similiarities between the Cleopatra Thea
      > coinage and am looking for a good catalogue of images. Does anyone
      > know where I can find them. Does anyone know what is the reverse of
      > the Cleopatra Thea and Alexander Balas coinage? I think the one of
      > those coins is British Museum 1903-7-4-1. Also does anyone know of any
      > other earlier royal Seleukid women appearing on coinage? Thank you so
      > much for your help.
      > Kyle Erickson
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kgeshorty
      Thank you. I will look into the Agathokleia coins. Sincerely, Kyle Erickson ... my ... , ... under ... Balas
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 9, 2006
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        Thank you. I will look into the Agathokleia coins.
        Sincerely,
        Kyle Erickson
        --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "egil4870" <jens.jakobsson@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi!
        >
        > I don't know of any of this could be helpful, but I usually start
        my
        > searches on Wildwinds
        <http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/i.html> ,
        > which has a really nice collection of coins for each king (look
        under
        > "Seleucia" to find the Seleucid kings"), as well as links to other
        > collections at the end of each page. It seems they have none of
        Balas
        > and Thea, but several of Antiochos Grypos and Cleopatra Thea.
        > Coinarchives <http://www.coinarchives.com/a/> has at least one
        > specimen, with Zeus Nikephoros enthroned as reverse.
        >
        > On this page of Snible.org
        > <http://www.snible.org/coins/bmc/index.html#syria> there are
        links to
        > reproductions of the plates of all Seleucid kings in the
        collection of
        > the British Museum, and there is at least one other coin of Balas &
        > Cleopatra Thea, this time with a cornucopia reverse.
        >
        > From what I can gather from Oliver Hoover's homepage - he knows
        better
        > of course - The American Numismatic Society has only published the
        first
        > part of their collections of Seleucid coins, and so not reached
        > Cleopatra Thea yet.
        >
        > There is a book called "The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid
        Coins"
        > which seems very promising, with almost 3000 illustrations of
        coins.
        >
        > There are earlier examples of Seleucid women appearing on coins:
        > It is possible that Laodike the queen of Seleukos IV struck coins
        for
        > her infant son, the king who is usually called "Antiochos son of
        > Seleukos" or "Antiochos the Child" and ruled very briefly around
        175 BCE
        > before being dethroned by Antiochos IV Epiphanes. Laodike is on
        the
        > obverse but not mentioned in the legend on the coins, which have
        > bottlecap borders and an elephant's head on the reverse. However,
        there
        > seems to be some uncertainty concerning this.
        >
        > Demetrios I pictures his queen and sister Laodike in a conjoined
        bust on
        > some of his coins, but AFAIK she isn't mentioned on the legend
        either.
        > This is of course only a few years before the appearance of Thea.
        >
        > Now this may be a stupid suggestion, but have you checked out
        > Agathokleia, queen regent for the Indo-Greek king Straton I? She
        has
        > been said to have been the queen of Menander I, but the modern
        view is
        > that she was later, perhaps around 100 BCE. She has some really
        > interesting coins.
        >
        > Best regards
        >
        > Jens Jakobsson
        >
        > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "kgeshorty" <kgeshorty@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > > I am writing my MA on divinity of Hellenistic queens and am
        trying to
        > > write a chapter on the similiarities between the Cleopatra Thea
        > > coinage and am looking for a good catalogue of images. Does
        anyone
        > > know where I can find them. Does anyone know what is the reverse
        of
        > > the Cleopatra Thea and Alexander Balas coinage? I think the one
        of
        > > those coins is British Museum 1903-7-4-1. Also does anyone know
        of any
        > > other earlier royal Seleukid women appearing on coinage? Thank
        you so
        > > much for your help.
        > > Kyle Erickson
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Oliver D. Hoover
        Kyle and Jens, To answer Kyle s questions first, the reverse type of the BM Alexander Balas coin is an enthroned Zeus Nikephoros. I believe that this very coin
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 12, 2006
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          Kyle and Jens,

          To answer Kyle's questions first, the reverse type of the BM Alexander Balas
          coin is an enthroned Zeus Nikephoros. I believe that this very coin is
          illustrated or at least fully described in NC (1904), p. 307, no. 30

          The following Seleucid queens appear on the coinage:

          Laodice IV (as sequential wife of Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV)at Antioch on
          the Orontes and Ptolemais (Ake)
          Laodice V with her husband Demetrius I at Seleucia on the Tigris
          Cleopatra Thea with her husband Alexander I at Seleucia in Pieria
          Cleopatra Thea as sole ruler at Ptolemais (Ake)
          Cleopatra Thea with her son Antiochus VIII at Antioch on the Orontes,
          Damascus, Sidon, Ptolemais, Ascalon, and several uncertain mints in Cilicia
          and Syria
          Cleopatra Selene with her son Antiochus XIII (NOT Seleucus VII) at Damascus

          If you are broadening your parameters a little you might also include
          Cleopatra I, the daughter of Antiochus III who became a Ptolemaic queen and
          who appears on a rare (unique?) Ptolemaic issue.

          For some bibliography on Seleucid queens and their depictions, see:

          Fleischer, R. Studien zur Seleukidischen Kunst: Band I Herscherbildnisse.
          Mainz: P. von Zabern, 1991.

          Gardner, P. British Museum Catalogue of Coins: Seleucid Kings of Syria.
          Bologna: Arnaldo Forni reprint, 1963

          Hoover, O. "A Dedication to Aphrodite Epekoos for Demetrius I Soter and his
          Family," ZPE 131 (2000), 106-110.

          Hoover, O. "Two Seleucid Notes: II. Laodice IV on the Bronze Coinages of
          Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV." AJN 14 (2002), 81-87.

          Hoover, O. "Dethroning Seleucus VII Philometor (Cybiosactes): Epigraphical
          Arguments Against a Late Seleucid Monarch," ZPE 151 (2005), 95-99.

          Houghton, A. Coins of the Seleucid Empire from the Collection of Arthur
          Houghton (Ancient Coins in North American Collections 4). New York: American
          Numismatic Society, 1983.

          Houghton A. and A. Spaer. Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum: Israel I, The Arnold
          Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins. London: Italo Vecchi, 1998.

          Macurdy, G. H. Hellenistic Queens. Baltimore: Ares Publishers reprint, 1932.

          Whitehorne, J. Cleopatras. London: Routledge, 1994.

          Best of luck with the Cleopatra Thea chapter!

          Jens,

          I should just clarify your remark about www.seleukids.org. None of the
          material posted there belongs to the ANS. While I would love to present
          those coins on the site, I do not currently have the copyright permission
          that would allow me to do so. The data for all of the ANS Seleucids can be
          found by searching the database at www.numismatics.org, but the images are
          largely absent.

          Oliver D. Hoover
        • kgeshorty
          Thank you Jens and Oliver Hoover, I didn t manage to get the Arnold Spaer collection before I had to turn in the dissertation. But having looked at it now it
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 4, 2006
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            Thank you Jens and Oliver Hoover, I didn't manage to get the Arnold
            Spaer collection before I had to turn in the dissertation. But having
            looked at it now it is most helpful for the start of my Phd and to
            revise my MA thesis thank you for your help.
            Kyle Erickson



            --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "egil4870" <jens.jakobsson@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi!
            >
            > I don't know of any of this could be helpful, but I usually start my
            > searches on Wildwinds <http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/i.html> ,
            > which has a really nice collection of coins for each king (look under
            > "Seleucia" to find the Seleucid kings"), as well as links to other
            > collections at the end of each page. It seems they have none of Balas
            > and Thea, but several of Antiochos Grypos and Cleopatra Thea.
            > Coinarchives <http://www.coinarchives.com/a/> has at least one
            > specimen, with Zeus Nikephoros enthroned as reverse.
            >
            > On this page of Snible.org
            > <http://www.snible.org/coins/bmc/index.html#syria> there are links to
            > reproductions of the plates of all Seleucid kings in the collection of
            > the British Museum, and there is at least one other coin of Balas &
            > Cleopatra Thea, this time with a cornucopia reverse.
            >
            > From what I can gather from Oliver Hoover's homepage - he knows better
            > of course - The American Numismatic Society has only published the first
            > part of their collections of Seleucid coins, and so not reached
            > Cleopatra Thea yet.
            >
            > There is a book called "The Arnold Spaer Collection of Seleucid Coins"
            > which seems very promising, with almost 3000 illustrations of coins.
            >
            > There are earlier examples of Seleucid women appearing on coins:
            > It is possible that Laodike the queen of Seleukos IV struck coins for
            > her infant son, the king who is usually called "Antiochos son of
            > Seleukos" or "Antiochos the Child" and ruled very briefly around 175 BCE
            > before being dethroned by Antiochos IV Epiphanes. Laodike is on the
            > obverse but not mentioned in the legend on the coins, which have
            > bottlecap borders and an elephant's head on the reverse. However, there
            > seems to be some uncertainty concerning this.
            >
            > Demetrios I pictures his queen and sister Laodike in a conjoined bust on
            > some of his coins, but AFAIK she isn't mentioned on the legend either.
            > This is of course only a few years before the appearance of Thea.
            >
            > Now this may be a stupid suggestion, but have you checked out
            > Agathokleia, queen regent for the Indo-Greek king Straton I? She has
            > been said to have been the queen of Menander I, but the modern view is
            > that she was later, perhaps around 100 BCE. She has some really
            > interesting coins.
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Jens Jakobsson
            >
            > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "kgeshorty" <kgeshorty@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > > I am writing my MA on divinity of Hellenistic queens and am trying to
            > > write a chapter on the similiarities between the Cleopatra Thea
            > > coinage and am looking for a good catalogue of images. Does anyone
            > > know where I can find them. Does anyone know what is the reverse of
            > > the Cleopatra Thea and Alexander Balas coinage? I think the one of
            > > those coins is British Museum 1903-7-4-1. Also does anyone know of any
            > > other earlier royal Seleukid women appearing on coinage? Thank you so
            > > much for your help.
            > > Kyle Erickson
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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