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L prefix on dates

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  • Tom Kirby
    Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? I just got an Antiochos VIII/Eagle AE that appears to have a date of L sigma, and I was wondering if that
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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      Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? I just got an
      Antiochos VIII/Eagle AE that appears to have a date of L sigma, and I
      was wondering if that could be correct, or if I should try to do
      something to clear up the patina in that area to see if it was another
      character.

      Thanks,

      -- Tom Kirby
    • AHA95@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/3/2005 5:23:12 PM Central Standard Time, achaios@cox.net writes: Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? The short answer is
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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        In a message dated 10/3/2005 5:23:12 PM Central Standard Time,
        achaios@... writes:

        Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates?


        The short answer is yes, occasionally. The L prefix was a Ptolemaic
        convention that persisted in Phoenicia until late in the 2nd century. You should
        try to get Seyrig''s comments on the L prefix in ANSNNM 119.

        Best regards,

        Arthur Houghton


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Oliver D. Hoover
        Tom, There are some rare examples of this including Antiochus VIII eagle bronzes of Antioch. Am I correct to assume that it is an SE 200 date? Oliver D.
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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          Tom,



          There are some rare examples of this including Antiochus VIII eagle bronzes
          of Antioch. Am I correct to assume that it is an SE 200 date?



          Oliver D. Hoover



          _____

          From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Tom Kirby
          Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:19 PM
          To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [seleukids] L prefix on dates



          Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? I just got an
          Antiochos VIII/Eagle AE that appears to have a date of L sigma, and I
          was wondering if that could be correct, or if I should try to do
          something to clear up the patina in that area to see if it was another
          character.

          Thanks,

          -- Tom Kirby


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        • Makis Aperghis
          ... Dear Tom, I would just like to add that the L prefix is commonly used before dates on Seleukid weights. Makis Aperghis From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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            -----Original Message-----
            Dear Tom,

            I would just like to add that the 'L' prefix is commonly used before
            dates on Seleukid weights.

            Makis Aperghis


            From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Tom Kirby
            Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:19 AM
            To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [seleukids] L prefix on dates

            Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? I just got an
            Antiochos VIII/Eagle AE that appears to have a date of L sigma, and I
            was wondering if that could be correct, or if I should try to do
            something to clear up the patina in that area to see if it was another
            character.

            Thanks,

            -- Tom Kirby
          • oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca
            Tom, Thinking further on the Antioch bronze, I wonder whether L has been used here to identify the date (in the case of SE 200 a single letter sigma), which
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 4, 2005
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              Tom,

              Thinking further on the Antioch bronze, I wonder whether L has been used
              here to identify the date (in the case of SE 200 a single letter sigma),
              which might potentially be confused as a control of some kind. This is the
              only date that L is used with in the Antiochus VIII eagle series as far as I
              can tell.

              Oliver D. Hoover


              >To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >Subject: [seleukids] L prefix on dates
              >
              >
              >
              >Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates? I just got an
              >
              >Antiochos VIII/Eagle AE that appears to have a date of L sigma, and I
              >
              >was wondering if that could be correct, or if I should try to do
              >
              >something to clear up the patina in that area to see if it was another
              >
              >character.
              >
              >
              >
              >Thanks,
              >
              >
              >
              >-- Tom Kirby
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            • Oliver D. Hoover
              Dear Makis, Which weights are these? At the moment I only have images of the ones from Rostovtzeff at hand, but neither of these includes the L. Oliver D.
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 4, 2005
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                Dear Makis,



                Which weights are these? At the moment I only have images of the ones from
                Rostovtzeff at hand, but neither of these includes the L.



                Oliver D. Hoover







                _____

                From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Makis Aperghis
                Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:20 AM
                To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates





                -----Original Message-----
                Dear Tom,

                I would just like to add that the 'L' prefix is commonly used before
                dates on Seleukid weights.

                Makis Aperghis







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jörn Kobes
                ... convention that persisted in Phoenicia until late in the 2nd century. You should ... Is it not possible that the letter L is the equivalent of etos
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005
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                  AHA95@... schrieb:
                  > In a message dated 10/3/2005 5:23:12 PM Central Standard Time,
                  achaios@... writes:
                  > Did the Seleukids ever use the L prefix on dates?
                  > The short answer is yes, occasionally. The L prefix was a Ptolemaic
                  convention that persisted in Phoenicia until late in the 2nd century.
                  You should
                  > try to get Seyrig''s comments on the L prefix in ANSNNM 119.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Arthur Houghton

                  Is it not possible that the letter "L" is the equivalent of "etos"
                  (year), known from and abbreviated in papyris from Ptolemaic and Roman
                  Egypt ?

                  Greetings

                  Jörn

                  ***********************************
                  Dr. Jörn Kobes
                  Abt. f. Alte Geschichte
                  Univ. of Frankfurt, Germany
                  dokimos@...
                  ***********************************
                • Oliver D. Hoover
                  Absolutely. This is the usual interpretation of the L. However, it is quite rare on Seleucid coinage and mainly appears in the south, a region with a long
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005
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                    Absolutely. This is the usual interpretation of the L. However, it is
                    quite rare on Seleucid coinage and mainly appears in the south, a region
                    with a long Ptolemaic past.



                    Oliver D. Hoover



                    _____


                    Is it not possible that the letter "L" is the equivalent of "etos"
                    (year), known from and abbreviated in papyris from Ptolemaic and Roman
                    Egypt ?

                    Greetings

                    Jörn

                    ***********************************
                    Dr. Jörn Kobes
                    Abt. f. Alte Geschichte
                    Univ. of Frankfurt, Germany
                    dokimos@...
                    ***********************************





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Danny Syon
                    I believe ther is a fair number of such weights in Israel. A person to know about them would be Gerald Finkielsztejn at the IAA. Dr. Danny Syon Israel
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005
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                      I believe ther is a fair number of such weights in Israel. A person to know
                      about them would be Gerald Finkielsztejn at the IAA.



                      Dr. Danny Syon
                      Israel Antiquities Authority
                      P.O.Box 1094
                      Akko 24110
                      ISRAEL
                      Tel. 972-4-9911682
                      Fax. 972-4-9910671
                      dsyon@...



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Danny Syon" <dsyon@...>
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:40 AM
                      Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates


                      Dear Makis,



                      Which weights are these? At the moment I only have images of the ones from
                      Rostovtzeff at hand, but neither of these includes the L.



                      Oliver D. Hoover







                      _____

                      From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Makis Aperghis
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:20 AM
                      To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates





                      -----Original Message-----
                      Dear Tom,

                      I would just like to add that the 'L' prefix is commonly used before
                      dates on Seleukid weights.

                      Makis Aperghis







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                    • Makis Aperghis
                      ... From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Oliver D. Hoover Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:20 AM To:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005
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                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Oliver D. Hoover
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:20 AM
                        To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates

                        Dear Makis,



                        Which weights are these? At the moment I only have images of the ones
                        from
                        Rostovtzeff at hand, but neither of these includes the L.



                        Oliver D. Hoover


                        Dear Oliver,

                        Here are sample references of different items on which the 'L' appears
                        to indicate a date:

                        1. Lead weight: Kushnir-Stein, IEJ 52(2002)225-230
                        2. Amphora stamp: Fikkielsztein, Transeuphratene 15(1998)83-121
                        3. Liquid measure: Finkielsztein, Atiqot 38(1999)51-64
                        4. Sling bullet of Tryphon (!!!): Gera, IEJ 35(1985)153-163

                        As you can see, the use of the 'L' for a date was not uncommon.

                        Makis
                      • Oliver D. Hoover
                        Dear Makis, Thanks, although only one of these is an actual weight. If you have it at hand, is the IEJ item a true Seleucid weight in that it employs Seleucid
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005
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                          Dear Makis,



                          Thanks, although only one of these is an actual weight. If you have it at
                          hand, is the IEJ item a true Seleucid weight in that it employs Seleucid
                          royal iconography, or is it just a civic weight, perhaps with the common
                          Macedonian shield design, that dates to the Seleucid period?



                          I never doubted the usage of L, particularly in the south. I have just never
                          seen it on a Seleucid weight.



                          Oliver D. Hoover

                          _____



                          Dear Oliver,

                          Here are sample references of different items on which the 'L' appears
                          to indicate a date:

                          1. Lead weight: Kushnir-Stein, IEJ 52(2002)225-230
                          2. Amphora stamp: Fikkielsztein, Transeuphratene 15(1998)83-121
                          3. Liquid measure: Finkielsztein, Atiqot 38(1999)51-64
                          4. Sling bullet of Tryphon (!!!): Gera, IEJ 35(1985)153-163

                          As you can see, the use of the 'L' for a date was not uncommon.

                          Makis







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Danny Syon
                          Regarding my last post, I d like to correct myself: the weights from Israel are -- as far as I know -- civic, not royal, if that makes a difference. Dr. Danny
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 6, 2005
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                            Regarding my last post, I'd like to correct myself:
                            the weights from Israel are -- as far as I know -- civic, not royal, if that
                            makes a difference.


                            Dr. Danny Syon
                            Israel Antiquities Authority
                            P.O.Box 1094
                            Akko 24110
                            Israel
                            Tel. 04-9911682
                            Fax: 9910671
                            dsyon@...
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Danny Syon" <dsyon@...>
                            To: <seleukids@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:22 PM
                            Subject: Re: [seleukids] L prefix on dates


                            >I believe ther is a fair number of such weights in Israel. A person to know
                            > about them would be Gerald Finkielsztejn at the IAA.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dr. Danny Syon
                            > Israel Antiquities Authority
                            > P.O.Box 1094
                            > Akko 24110
                            > ISRAEL
                            > Tel. 972-4-9911682
                            > Fax. 972-4-9910671
                            > dsyon@...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Danny Syon" <dsyon@...>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:40 AM
                            > Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Makis,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Which weights are these? At the moment I only have images of the ones
                            > from
                            > Rostovtzeff at hand, but neither of these includes the L.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Oliver D. Hoover
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: seleukids@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seleukids@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf
                            > Of Makis Aperghis
                            > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:20 AM
                            > To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [seleukids] L prefix on dates
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > Dear Tom,
                            >
                            > I would just like to add that the 'L' prefix is commonly used before
                            > dates on Seleukid weights.
                            >
                            > Makis Aperghis
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
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