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Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios

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  • Petr Vesely
    Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing figure of Zeus Uranios ( Zeus of Heaven ) on the reverse. Zeus holds a star in his outstretched
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 1, 2005
      Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing figure of
      Zeus Uranios ("Zeus of Heaven") on the reverse. Zeus holds a star in
      his outstretched right hand and a sceptre with his left arm and he has
      a crescent above his head. These coins were issued by several mints in
      the period c. 121 - 98/6 BC (for typical examples, see
      http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?results=100&search=Uranios ).

      What aspect of Zeus is expressed by the epithet Uranios? His rule over
      the firmament? Other Seleukid kings preferred Zeus Nikephoros (seated
      on throne and holding Nike and scepter). Is there a special meaning of
      Zeus Uranios on Grypos' coins?

      I know only that Zeus Uranios is mentioned in Herodotos' The Histories,
      VI.56.1. By [W. W. How, J. Wells, A Commentary on Herodotus], his cult
      continued latter under the Roman empire. Thanks in advance for any
      other
      information.

      Petr Vesely






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    • Oliver D. Hoover
      Dear Petr, Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as suggested by the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated with
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 1, 2005
        Dear Petr,

        Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as suggested by
        the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated with him.
        However, exactly why Antiochus VIII should have adopted him for his coinage
        is unclear. It is also unclear why the god is initially depicted nude, but
        later appears draped.

        Oliver D. Hoover

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Petr Vesely [mailto:pvesely2002@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:35 AM
        To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [seleukids] Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios



        Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing figure of
        Zeus Uranios ("Zeus of Heaven") on the reverse. Zeus holds a star in
        his outstretched right hand and a sceptre with his left arm and he has
        a crescent above his head. These coins were issued by several mints in
        the period c. 121 - 98/6 BC (for typical examples, see
        http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?results=100&search=Uranios ).

        What aspect of Zeus is expressed by the epithet Uranios? His rule over
        the firmament? Other Seleukid kings preferred Zeus Nikephoros (seated
        on throne and holding Nike and scepter). Is there a special meaning of
        Zeus Uranios on Grypos' coins?

        I know only that Zeus Uranios is mentioned in Herodotos' The Histories,
        VI.56.1. By [W. W. How, J. Wells, A Commentary on Herodotus], his cult
        continued latter under the Roman empire. Thanks in advance for any
        other
        information.

        Petr Vesely






        ___________________________________________________________
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      • Petr Vesely
        Dear Oliver, Thanks for this information. By the way, what form is closer to the Greek: Ouranios or Uranios ? Is this epithet mentioned also in other
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 1, 2005
          Dear Oliver,
          Thanks for this information. By the way, what form is closer to the
          Greek: "Ouranios" or "Uranios"? Is this epithet mentioned also in other
          ancient sources from the Classical or Hellenistic periods beside
          Herodotos?

          Best regards,
          Petr Vesely



          --- "Oliver D. Hoover" <oliver.hoover@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Petr,
          >
          > Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as
          > suggested by
          > the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated with
          > him.
          > However, exactly why Antiochus VIII should have adopted him for his
          > coinage
          > is unclear. It is also unclear why the god is initially depicted
          > nude, but
          > later appears draped.
          >
          > Oliver D. Hoover
          >






          ___________________________________________________________
          ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
        • Andrew McIntyre
          Oliver, I was checking some coins in Houghton s (CSE), Newell s(SMA), and SNG Spaer when I remembered you comment about the clothing on Zeus. It appears the
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 28, 2005
            Oliver,

            I was checking some coins in Houghton's (CSE), Newell's(SMA), and
            SNG Spaer when I remembered you comment about the clothing on Zeus.
            It appears the transition year may have been Seleucid Year 195
            (118/117BC). The mint of Damascus has a nude Zeus prior - but then
            in Seleucid Year 195 - SNG Spaer shows one tetradrachm (2651) nude
            and one clothed (2650). After that the remaining coins have clothes
            on Zeus. I was unable to find any other coins in the region (Coele
            Syria/Phoenicia) with a nude Zeus after SE 195. If this is the case
            then this would appear to have been a general directive from the
            central Seleucid Authority.

            What is also curious is that I was unable to find any tetradrachm of
            Antiochos VIII for the Mint of Antioch with a nude Zeus Uranios ?


            Andrew
            Coins of Time

            --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver D. Hoover"
            <oliver.hoover@s...> wrote:
            > Dear Petr,
            >
            > Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as
            suggested by
            > the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated
            with him.
            > However, exactly why Antiochus VIII should have adopted him for
            his coinage
            > is unclear. It is also unclear why the god is initially depicted
            nude, but
            > later appears draped.
            >
            > Oliver D. Hoover
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Petr Vesely [mailto:pvesely2002@y...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:35 AM
            > To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [seleukids] Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios
            >
            >
            >
            > Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing figure
            of
            > Zeus Uranios ("Zeus of Heaven") on the reverse. Zeus holds a star
            in
            > his outstretched right hand and a sceptre with his left arm and he
            has
            > a crescent above his head. These coins were issued by several
            mints in
            > the period c. 121 - 98/6 BC (for typical examples, see
            > http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?
            results=100&search=Uranios ).
            >
            > What aspect of Zeus is expressed by the epithet Uranios? His rule
            over
            > the firmament? Other Seleukid kings preferred Zeus Nikephoros
            (seated
            > on throne and holding Nike and scepter). Is there a special
            meaning of
            > Zeus Uranios on Grypos' coins?
            >
            > I know only that Zeus Uranios is mentioned in Herodotos' The
            Histories,
            > VI.56.1. By [W. W. How, J. Wells, A Commentary on Herodotus], his
            cult
            > continued latter under the Roman empire. Thanks in advance for any
            > other
            > information.
            >
            > Petr Vesely
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ___________________________________________________________
            > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
            > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Community email addresses:
            > Post message: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
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          • Oliver D. Hoover
            Andrew, The transition does indeed take place at Damascus in 118/17. Presumably the change took place around the same time at the other mints, but this is
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 1, 2005
              Andrew,



              The transition does indeed take place at Damascus in 118/17. Presumably the
              change took place around the same time at the other mints, but this is
              difficult to prove, since the other mints did not date their tetradrachms
              nicely like Damascus did. The nude Zeus appears at Antioch only briefly and
              is known from only two dies (see SMA 378). These are carried as SC 2297 in
              Seleucid Coins Part 2.



              Oliver D. Hoover



              _____

              From: Andrew McIntyre [mailto:andrew@...]
              Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 10:33 AM
              To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [seleukids] Re: Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios





              Oliver,

              I was checking some coins in Houghton's (CSE), Newell's(SMA), and
              SNG Spaer when I remembered you comment about the clothing on Zeus.
              It appears the transition year may have been Seleucid Year 195
              (118/117BC). The mint of Damascus has a nude Zeus prior - but then
              in Seleucid Year 195 - SNG Spaer shows one tetradrachm (2651) nude
              and one clothed (2650). After that the remaining coins have clothes
              on Zeus. I was unable to find any other coins in the region (Coele
              Syria/Phoenicia) with a nude Zeus after SE 195. If this is the case
              then this would appear to have been a general directive from the
              central Seleucid Authority.

              What is also curious is that I was unable to find any tetradrachm of
              Antiochos VIII for the Mint of Antioch with a nude Zeus Uranios ?


              Andrew
              Coins of Time

              --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver D. Hoover"
              <oliver.hoover@s...> wrote:
              > Dear Petr,
              >
              > Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as
              suggested by
              > the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated
              with him.
              > However, exactly why Antiochus VIII should have adopted him for
              his coinage
              > is unclear. It is also unclear why the god is initially depicted
              nude, but
              > later appears draped.
              >
              > Oliver D. Hoover
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Petr Vesely [mailto:pvesely2002@y...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:35 AM
              > To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [seleukids] Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios
              >
              >
              >
              > Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing figure
              of
              > Zeus Uranios ("Zeus of Heaven") on the reverse. Zeus holds a star
              in
              > his outstretched right hand and a sceptre with his left arm and he
              has
              > a crescent above his head. These coins were issued by several
              mints in
              > the period c. 121 - 98/6 BC (for typical examples, see
              > http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?
              results=100&search=Uranios ).
              >
              > What aspect of Zeus is expressed by the epithet Uranios? His rule
              over
              > the firmament? Other Seleukid kings preferred Zeus Nikephoros
              (seated
              > on throne and holding Nike and scepter). Is there a special
              meaning of
              > Zeus Uranios on Grypos' coins?
              >
              > I know only that Zeus Uranios is mentioned in Herodotos' The
              Histories,
              > VI.56.1. By [W. W. How, J. Wells, A Commentary on Herodotus], his
              cult
              > continued latter under the Roman empire. Thanks in advance for any
              > other
              > information.
              >
              > Petr Vesely
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ___________________________________________________________
              > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
              > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Community email addresses:
              > Post message: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
              > Subscribe: seleukids-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Unsubscribe: seleukids-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > List owner: seleukids-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Shortcut URL to this page:
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              > Yahoo! Groups Links





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            • Andrew McIntyre
              Oliver, I am guessing you have an advance copy of Selecuid Coins Part 2 - Any idea when it might be availble for sale? Andrew Coins of Time -- In
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 1, 2005
                Oliver,

                I am guessing you have an advance copy of Selecuid Coins Part 2 -
                Any idea when it might be availble for sale?

                Andrew

                Coins of Time


                -- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver D. Hoover"
                <oliver.hoover@s...> wrote:
                > Andrew,
                >
                >
                >
                > The transition does indeed take place at Damascus in 118/17.
                Presumably the
                > change took place around the same time at the other mints, but
                this is
                > difficult to prove, since the other mints did not date their
                tetradrachms
                > nicely like Damascus did. The nude Zeus appears at Antioch only
                briefly and
                > is known from only two dies (see SMA 378). These are carried as
                SC 2297 in
                > Seleucid Coins Part 2.
                >
                >
                >
                > Oliver D. Hoover
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: Andrew McIntyre [mailto:andrew@c...]
                > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 10:33 AM
                > To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [seleukids] Re: Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Oliver,
                >
                > I was checking some coins in Houghton's (CSE), Newell's(SMA), and
                > SNG Spaer when I remembered you comment about the clothing on
                Zeus.
                > It appears the transition year may have been Seleucid Year 195
                > (118/117BC). The mint of Damascus has a nude Zeus prior - but then
                > in Seleucid Year 195 - SNG Spaer shows one tetradrachm (2651) nude
                > and one clothed (2650). After that the remaining coins have
                clothes
                > on Zeus. I was unable to find any other coins in the region (Coele
                > Syria/Phoenicia) with a nude Zeus after SE 195. If this is the
                case
                > then this would appear to have been a general directive from the
                > central Seleucid Authority.
                >
                > What is also curious is that I was unable to find any tetradrachm
                of
                > Antiochos VIII for the Mint of Antioch with a nude Zeus Uranios ?
                >
                >
                > Andrew
                > Coins of Time
                >
                > --- In seleukids@yahoogroups.com, "Oliver D. Hoover"
                > <oliver.hoover@s...> wrote:
                > > Dear Petr,
                > >
                > > Ouranios does indeed indicate Zeus as ruler of the heavens, as
                > suggested by
                > > the star and crescent (probably the sun and the moon) associated
                > with him.
                > > However, exactly why Antiochus VIII should have adopted him for
                > his coinage
                > > is unclear. It is also unclear why the god is initially
                depicted
                > nude, but
                > > later appears draped.
                > >
                > > Oliver D. Hoover
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Petr Vesely [mailto:pvesely2002@y...]
                > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:35 AM
                > > To: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [seleukids] Antiochos VIII and Zeus Uranios
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Some tetradrachms of Antiochos VIII Grypos bear a standing
                figure
                > of
                > > Zeus Uranios ("Zeus of Heaven") on the reverse. Zeus holds a
                star
                > in
                > > his outstretched right hand and a sceptre with his left arm and
                he
                > has
                > > a crescent above his head. These coins were issued by several
                > mints in
                > > the period c. 121 - 98/6 BC (for typical examples, see
                > > http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?
                > results=100&search=Uranios ).
                > >
                > > What aspect of Zeus is expressed by the epithet Uranios? His
                rule
                > over
                > > the firmament? Other Seleukid kings preferred Zeus Nikephoros
                > (seated
                > > on throne and holding Nike and scepter). Is there a special
                > meaning of
                > > Zeus Uranios on Grypos' coins?
                > >
                > > I know only that Zeus Uranios is mentioned in Herodotos' The
                > Histories,
                > > VI.56.1. By [W. W. How, J. Wells, A Commentary on Herodotus],
                his
                > cult
                > > continued latter under the Roman empire. Thanks in advance for
                any
                > > other
                > > information.
                > >
                > > Petr Vesely
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ___________________________________________________________
                > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Community email addresses:
                > > Post message: seleukids@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subscribe: seleukids-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > Unsubscribe: seleukids-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > List owner: seleukids-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Shortcut URL to this page:
                > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/seleukids
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
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                >
                >
                > Community email addresses:
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