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Fire House 21 and Greenwood Avenue North Design Commission Comments

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  • Kate Martin
    I did a cut and paste of the meeting minutes from the April 17th Design Commission meeting where amongst other projects, they heard about the Greenwood Fire
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment

       

      I did a cut and paste of the meeting minutes from the April 17th Design Commission meeting where amongst other projects, they heard about the Greenwood Fire Station #21 and the Greenwood Avenue North Street Project. 

       

      As far as the Fire Station:  I am shocked that the Design Commisssion would ever consider dismissing the idea of wider sidewalks and considering wider sidewalks as not green.   If we are to be a walking city, we need 8’ sidewalks (minimum) in the business districts and along main streets.  Calling a wider sidewalk not green is ridiculous. 

       

      As far as the Greenwood North project: They’re not showing themselves fully informed and qualified to offer feedback to SDOT.  I get the feeling these comments go into a big abyss.  The Greenwood Ave North project does not reflect this input.  Additionally, the commissioners missed many if not most of the important issues, especially they missed the importance of the transit hub / pedestrian environment at 105th and Greenwood . 

         

      -Kate

       

       

       

      APPROVED

      MINUTES OF THE MEETING

      April 17, 2008

      Convened: 8:30am Adjourned: 4:30pm

      Projects Reviewed

      Fire Station 21 – Greenwood

      Councilmember Tom Rasmussen

      Rainier Vista at University of Washington

      Blume Yale Campus Woonerf & Swale

      West Seattle Wayfinding System

      Street and Alley Vacation Process

      Greenwood Avenue North Improvements

      Design Commissioners Present Staff Present

      Karen Kiest, Chair Guillermo Romano

      Tasha Atchison Valerie Kinast

      Brendan Connolly Tom Iurino

      John Hoffman Ian Macek

      Mary Johnston

      Juanita LaFond

      Dennis Ryan

      Norie Sato

      Darrell Vange

      Darby Watson

       

         2

      17 April 2008 Project: Fire Station 21 – Greenwood

      Phase: Concept Design

      Last Reviews:

      Presenters: Rich Hennings, Fleets and Facilities Department

      Kate Spitzer, Miller Hull Partnership

      Scott Wolf, Miller Hull Partnership

      Attendees: Jayson Antonoff, DPD

      Jess Harris, DPD

      Jason Huff, Arts & Cultural Affairs

      David Kunselman, Fleets and Facilities Department

      Time: 1.0 hours (SR 169/RS0609)

      ACTION

      The Commission thanks the team for the presentation and unanimously supports the pre-design phase with the following comments:

                  The Greenwood “storefront” quality is important and the designers have identified it as a design influence. Therefore, the Commission encourages the teams to keep the apparatus bay doors as transparent as possible.

                  Encourage investigation of daylighting the apparatus bay.

                  There is opportunity for stormwater gardens on 73rd and look forward to seeing further development of that.

                  Encourage making the pocket park a generous useable public space, while keeping it safe and open. Support giving a portion to the firefighters for ground level use.

                  The Commission will be looking at the development of the station house and how it works with the slope on 73rd.

                  The development of the street front and driveway will be important. The Commission supports overhead protection and other elements that support the active pedestrian activity on Greenwood .

                  Support adding a traffic signal at the alley, and hope that the team’s budget is not burdened by it.

                  Concerns about meeting the green factor on this project. Widening the sidewalk would be beneficial, but impacts green factor compliance. Permeable parking in the back parking lot may be an option.

                  Appreciate the team walking through the site and providing programming analysis.

       

      Project Presentation

      Project Background

      Fire Station 21 is in the Greenwood/Phinney Neighborhood, located on Greenwood Ave N between 73rd and 74th. It houses one engine company and the department’s mass casualty unit. The existing station is not suited for renovation, so a new one will be built in the same location, but on an expanded site. An interim facility will be provided during

       

       

      construction. The new building will increase the amount of space from 4,000 sq. ft. to 9,000 sq. ft., and the team is targeting LEED Silver.

      There are several constraints to the site. It slopes towards Green Lake, is in a Pedestrian Overlay Zone, and is surrounded by one-storey retail shops along Greenwood and single-family residential to the east. There is an active street life throughout the corridor.

      The current station has access off Greenwood . The intersection at 73rd is a controlled light, and can impact operations when cars back up limiting access to go south. A new signal at the alley would keep the lanes in front of the station clear during an emergency.

      The team examined a drive-through apparatus bay, but the site constraints are too great. Alternative was a front apron that was much smaller than required, the station house on the corner, and support bar surrounding the apparatus bay. The third option puts the apparatus bay at the sidewalk, and the support bar and station house would be slightly stepped back. This option counts on a signal being put in at the alley. The corner of the apparatus bay can be glazed to give visibility to firefighters as well as the ability to include a warning system for pedestrians using the sidewalk.

      The public entry addresses the urban core, engages the intersection and retains the pedestrian scale on N 73rd. The secure parking tray can be dropped down at the rear of the site due to elevation change.

      The landscape will keep the urban edge connection along Greenwood , and continue the tree line along 73rd to provide passive shading along the south side of the building. A pocket park or green buffer is being developed to the rear to mediate the grade changes and act as a connection between the residential area and the station.

      Public Comments

                  • The team will need to go to Council for approval of the nonconforming setback in a Pedestrian Overlay Zone.

                  • Alley traffic light will be a SDOT decision.

                     3 • In the process of selecting an artist for the project, there will be one on board by the end of next month.

       

       

      Figure  1:  Fire  station  21  predesign  plan  

       

         4

      Commissioners’ Comments

                  • Why not use 73rd for entry /exit?

                  o The width, parking located there, elevation prohibit this. Greenwood logistically was the best choice.

                  • How far east does the alley go?

                  o It continues down 73rd, and is continuous down to the next N/S street. Also looked at making an S-Turn into the alley, but that was not feasible as well.

                  • What LEED Strategies will be pursued?

                  o Looking at same type of credits. Stormwater will be more challenging, due to creating cisterns to retain the water. Indoor air quality, energy credits, building and materials credits.

                  • Will there be a tower?

                  o Looking at a tall hose tower. Using the two floors and the basement for drying. Demolishing basement and reconstructing it due to the hole being there. Could also be a hose dryer.

                  • Storefront nature of the street has been a large part of the presentation.

                  • Overhead doors are not as transparent as would like. Suggests transparency. How will the debate between transparency and non-transparency be addressed?

                  o The team is looking at the transparency of the apparatus bay doors. This station often has its doors open too.

                  • What is the opportunity for natural light in the apparatus bay?

                  o Looking at this issue. There is the opportunity to have clerestory windows along the north side.

                  • 73rd terraced landscape areas could be stormwater rain collection and gardens.

                  o Working on developing, final pre-design will address this.

                  • The pocket park sounds good, but seems like something that people wouldn’t use.

                  o 3-6 feet so adding space to the public realm, not just a rain garden people can look at. Also looking into trying to balance the space. There currently is transient activity happening in the alley. Creating a space that can be accessed, but not maintained by the FS.

                  • Talked initially about using the grade, but it is not apparent in the plan.

                  o Dropping the parking tray and looking at the articulation of the support bar.

                  • This station has more interaction between the sidewalk and the station than any others.

                  • Trying hard to make a storefront. Pay particular attention to the driveway and sidewalk treatment. Perhaps overhead weather protection could also be incorporated.

                  • Pocket park may not add much to the community. Make a separation, but may want to offer the open space to the firefighters to use.

                  • In support of the new traffic light at the alley.

                  • Will the traffic light be part of the overall budget?

                  o It will need to be part of the total project costs.

       

         5

                  • Is a geothermal heating system in the design?

                  o Split system has become the standard if geothermal is not possible, but the decision has not been explored yet.

                  • Is there a light at 73rd?

                  o Yes, it will be retained and a station light proposed at the alley.

                  • Appreciate the design process that the team has gone through thus far.

                 

    • Denise Gloster
      Sun, 6/8/08, Please forward to everyone you know -- far and wide. Thank you so much! Subject: JUNE 21st at 1pm: March For Youth
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 14, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Sun, 6/8/08,  Please forward to everyone you know -- far and wide.  Thank you so much! 
        Subject: JUNE 21st at 1pm: March For Youth <<<please forward widely>>>

         Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 4:16 PM

         

        The March for Youth is a community march and job/resource fair to protest and grieve the many recent, tragic deaths of young people in Seattle, and to come together in search of solutions to violence against and within our communites.  
         
        Join hundreds of community members on
         
        June 21st, 2008 at 1pm
         
        We will march south from Franklin High School and north from Rainier Beach High School, ending at Aki Kurose Middle School with food, entertainment, speeches from local leaders, resource tables, job fair, and "what's next" discussion. 
         
        If your organization or business wants a table at the resource or job fair
        or to get involved please email
        march4youth@...
        More details about the march below...
         
         
        Supporting Organizations:

        Hillman City Business Association 
        Jubilee Christian Center
        King County Community Organizing Program
        Communities United Rainier Beach
        Rainier Beauty Supply 
        South Seattle Crime Prevention Council           
        Pepsi Rainier Valley Partnership
        Mt. Baker Community Club
        Union Gospel Mission
        POCAAN
        Seattle Hip Hop Youth Council
        Rainier Ave Church
        Seattle Neighborhood Group 
        Jean Veldyke Properties, LLC
        Rainier Beach Empowerment Coalition
        South Pacific Islanders Educational Support Services
        Freedom Church of Seattle
        Freedom Project
        Justice Works
        Mondo Meats
        Youth Violence Prevention Network
        Lola's South City Bakery 
        DADS 
        Rainier Valley Chamber of Commerce
        HomeSight
        SEED
        Raising Our Youth As Leaders
        Mom Wilson
        New Hope Missionary Baptist Church
        NSTEP
        My Babies Ice Cream
        Kiku Hiyahshi  
        37th District Democrats
        United For Youth Coalition
        Umoja Fest African Heritage Festival   
        Street Soldiers
        The Healthy and Active Rainier Valley Coalition
        DaySpring Fitch Funeral Home
        Safe Schools Coalition
        Sharon Tomiko Santos
        Gwen Rench
        Brice J. Maryman
        Bridgette E. Maryman
        Jane Deer
        Lori D Babcock
        Steve Johnson Seattle School Board Director Mary Bass

         


        SUPPORTERS of the MARCH FOR YOUTH:
        * Recognize youth as our community's most valuable resource

        * Remember forever the young people whose young and promising lives were ended due to violence

        * Support safe and nurturing communities for all people, especially our youth

        * Recognize that the gang and other violence plaguing our youth and causing their death and destruction is due to societal ills that can be addressed; therefore we seek, support and stand for:

        * The establishment of safe and constructive school and community activities which engage and interest our youth

        * Youth-focused activities which help promote a sense of community among and between our youth

        * Acknowledgement that street gangs are active in our communities and claiming the lives of our youth and that additional intervention and prevention efforts are required to address gang violence

        * Additional resources and services which promote healthy families and which help families and others to understand the challenges faced by today's youth

        * The expansion of youth job training and employment programs

        * Alternatives to long-term incarceration for at risk and youth who have offended

        * The inclusion of our youth in the planning and execution of all of the above efforts


        Join the Outreach Team
        Help spread the word about the march! Students can get service learning credit!
         
        6/11/2008:
        4-6pm, Outreach Team meets at Franklin High School
        6/15/2008: 12-2pm, Outreach Team meets at Rainier Beach Safeway
        6/18/2008: 4-6pm, Outreach Team meets at Rainier Beach Safeway
         
        email march4youth@... for details.. 
        Tabling at the Resource or Job Fair
        Provide information about the resources or jobs available for young people from your organization or business.
         
        email allenabarnes@... for details. 



        To: bruce.harrell@...; jan.drago@...; jean.godden@...; nick.licata@...; richard.conlin@...; richard.mciver@...; sally.clark@...; tim.burgess@...; tom.rasmussen@...
        CC: seattlepedestrianmasterplan@yahoogroups.com
        From: katemartin@...
        Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:33:15 -0700
        Subject: [seattlepedestrianmasterplan] Fire House 21 and Greenwood Avenue North Design Commission Comments

         

        I did a cut and paste of the meeting minutes from the April 17th Design Commission meeting where amongst other projects, they heard about the Greenwood Fire Station #21 and the Greenwood Avenue North Street Project. 

         

        As far as the Fire Station:  I am shocked that the Design Commisssion would ever consider dismissing the idea of wider sidewalks and considering wider sidewalks as not green.   If we are to be a walking city, we need 8’ sidewalks (minimum) in the business districts and along main streets.  Calling a wider sidewalk not green is ridiculous. 

         

        As far as the Greenwood North project: They’re not showing themselves fully informed and qualified to offer feedback to SDOT.  I get the feeling these comments go into a big abyss.  The Greenwood Ave North project does not reflect this input.  Additionally, the commissioners missed many if not most of the important issues, especially they missed the importance of the transit hub / pedestrian environment at 105th and Greenwood. 

           

        -Kate

         

         

         

        APPROVED

        MINUTES OF THE MEETING

        April 17, 2008

        Convened: 8:30am Adjourned: 4:30pm

        Projects Reviewed

        Fire Station 21 – Greenwood

        Councilmember Tom Rasmussen

        Rainier Vista at University of Washington

        Blume Yale Campus Woonerf & Swale

        West Seattle Wayfinding System

        Street and Alley Vacation Process

        Greenwood Avenue North Improvements

        Design Commissioners Present Staff Present

        Karen Kiest, Chair Guillermo Romano

        Tasha Atchison Valerie Kinast

        Brendan Connolly Tom Iurino

        John Hoffman Ian Macek

        Mary Johnston

        Juanita LaFond

        Dennis Ryan

        Norie Sato

        Darrell Vange

        Darby Watson

         

           2

        17 April 2008 Project: Fire Station 21 – Greenwood

        Phase: Concept Design

        Last Reviews:

        Presenters: Rich Hennings, Fleets and Facilities Department

        Kate Spitzer, Miller Hull Partnership

        Scott Wolf, Miller Hull Partnership

        Attendees: Jayson Antonoff, DPD

        Jess Harris, DPD

        Jason Huff, Arts & Cultural Affairs

        David Kunselman, Fleets and Facilities Department

        Time: 1.0 hours (SR 169/RS0609)

        ACTION

        The Commission thanks the team for the presentation and unanimously supports the pre-design phase with the following comments:

                    The Greenwood “storefront” quality is important and the designers have identified it as a design influence. Therefore, the Commission encourages the teams to keep the apparatus bay doors as transparent as possible.

                    Encourage investigation of daylighting the apparatus bay.

                    There is opportunity for stormwater gardens on 73rd and look forward to seeing further development of that.

                    Encourage making the pocket park a generous useable public space, while keeping it safe and open. Support giving a portion to the firefighters for ground level use.

                    The Commission will be looking at the development of the station house and how it works with the slope on 73rd.

                    The development of the street front and driveway will be important. The Commission supports overhead protection and other elements that support the active pedestrian activity on Greenwood.

                    Support adding a traffic signal at the alley, and hope that the team’s budget is not burdened by it.

                    Concerns about meeting the green factor on this project. Widening the sidewalk would be beneficial, but impacts green factor compliance. Permeable parking in the back parking lot may be an option.

                    Appreciate the team walking through the site and providing programming analysis.

         

        Project Presentation

        Project Background

        Fire Station 21 is in the Greenwood/Phinney Neighborhood, located on Greenwood Ave N between 73rd and 74th. It houses one engine company and the department’s mass casualty unit. The existing station is not suited for renovation, so a new one will be built in the same location, but on an expanded site. An interim facility will be provided during

         

         

        construction. The new building will increase the amount of space from 4,000 sq. ft. to 9,000 sq. ft., and the team is targeting LEED Silver.

        There are several constraints to the site. It slopes towards Green Lake, is in a Pedestrian Overlay Zone, and is surrounded by one-storey retail shops along Greenwood and single-family residential to the east. There is an active street life throughout the corridor.

        The current station has access off Greenwood. The intersection at 73rd is a controlled light, and can impact operations when cars back up limiting access to go south. A new signal at the alley would keep the lanes in front of the station clear during an emergency.

        The team examined a drive-through apparatus bay, but the site constraints are too great. Alternative was a front apron that was much smaller than required, the station house on the corner, and support bar surrounding the apparatus bay. The third option puts the apparatus bay at the sidewalk, and the support bar and station house would be slightly stepped back. This option counts on a signal being put in at the alley. The corner of the apparatus bay can be glazed to give visibility to firefighters as well as the ability to include a warning system for pedestrians using the sidewalk.

        The public entry addresses the urban core, engages the intersection and retains the pedestrian scale on N 73rd. The secure parking tray can be dropped down at the rear of the site due to elevation change.

        The landscape will keep the urban edge connection along Greenwood, and continue the tree line along 73rd to provide passive shading along the south side of the building. A pocket park or green buffer is being developed to the rear to mediate the grade changes and act as a connection between the residential area and the station.

        Public Comments

                    • The team will need to go to Council for approval of the nonconforming setback in a Pedestrian Overlay Zone.

                    • Alley traffic light will be a SDOT decision.

                       3 • In the process of selecting an artist for the project, there will be one on board by the end of next month.

         

         

        Figure  1:  Fire  station  21  predesign  plan  

         

           4

        Commissioners’ Comments

                    • Why not use 73rd for entry /exit?

                    o The width, parking located there, elevation prohibit this. Greenwood logistically was the best choice.

                    • How far east does the alley go?

                    o It continues down 73rd, and is continuous down to the next N/S street. Also looked at making an S-Turn into the alley, but that was not feasible as well.

                    • What LEED Strategies will be pursued?

                    o Looking at same type of credits. Stormwater will be more challenging, due to creating cisterns to retain the water. Indoor air quality, energy credits, building and materials credits.

                    • Will there be a tower?

                    o Looking at a tall hose tower. Using the two floors and the basement for drying. Demolishing basement and reconstructing it due to the hole being there. Could also be a hose dryer.

                    • Storefront nature of the street has been a large part of the presentation.

                    • Overhead doors are not as transparent as would like. Suggests transparency. How will the debate between transparency and non-transparency be addressed?

                    o The team is looking at the transparency of the apparatus bay doors. This station often has its doors open too.

                    • What is the opportunity for natural light in the apparatus bay?

                    o Looking at this issue. There is the opportunity to have clerestory windows along the north side.

                    • 73rd terraced landscape areas could be stormwater rain collection and gardens.

                    o Working on developing, final pre-design will address this.

                    • The pocket park sounds good, but seems like something that people wouldn’t use.

                    o 3-6 feet so adding space to the public realm, not just a rain garden people can look at. Also looking into trying to balance the space. There currently is transient activity happening in the alley. Creating a space that can be accessed, but not maintained by the FS.

                    • Talked initially about using the grade, but it is not apparent in the plan.

                    o Dropping the parking tray and looking at the articulation of the support bar.

                    • This station has more interaction between the sidewalk and the station than any others.

                    • Trying hard to make a storefront. Pay particular attention to the driveway and sidewalk treatment. Perhaps overhead weather protection could also be incorporated.

                    • Pocket park may not add much to the community. Make a separation, but may want to offer the open space to the firefighters to use.

                    • In support of the new traffic light at the alley.

                    • Will the traffic light be part of the overall budget?

                    o It will need to be part of the total project costs.

         

           5

                    • Is a geothermal heating system in the design?

                    o Split system has become the standard if geothermal is not possible, but the decision has not been explored yet.

                    • Is there a light at 73rd?

                    o Yes, it will be retained and a station light proposed at the alley.

                    • Appreciate the design process that the team has gone through thus far.

                    • What is the sidewalk width

                    o 8 ft. on Greenwood.

                    • The station will be the activity on that block. Would encourage looking at widening the sidewalk in this area, working with SDOT to have a more generous width.

                    o Have the opportunity to step the building back a bit. The team wanted to align with the other buildings on Greenwood.

                    • Not sure how the green factor will be incorporated into the site. Has this been explored?

                    o Green roof was obvious at the beginning, but fell off due to budget and maintenance. Looking at the south edge vertical green and pocket park.

                    • Will the parking apron be permeable?

                    o It is an option.

                    • Has the team thought about tucking parking stalls under the apparatus bay?

                    o Something that the team can explore.

                    • Can pick up some green area on the east side if the parking was tucked under.

         

         

        17 April 2008 Project: Greenwood Avenue North Improvements

        Phase: Briefing

        Last Reviews:

        Presenters: Michael Ward, SDOT

        Attendees: Esther Chinn, SDOT

        Darren Murata, WHPacific

        Terrence Paananen, WHPacific

        Time: 1.0 hours (SR 169/RS)

        ACTION

        The Commission thanks the team for the briefing on the Greenwood Avenue North Street Improvements and offers the following comments:

                    The Commission strongly encourages the City to underground utilities in this corridor as part of this project.

                    Recommend incorporating area behind the sidewalk into the design rather than leaving it to private property use. For example, showing it as part of the sidewalk or public use in plans, unless it is necessary in specific instances for private access and maneuvering.

                    Promote use of street-use permits to clearly communicate ownership between city and private owners.

                    Recommend expanding landscape areas to connect tree pit areas where parking is preclude to strengthen pedestrian character.

                    Encourages showing utilities in cross-section details to help inform design decisions.

                    Support on-street parking in off-peak hours in areas where parking vehicles can be achieved (i.e. west side of street).

                    Generally not happy with the cross-section as a prototype for further projects moving north.

         

        Proponent’s Presentation

        Project Background

        The project is located on Greenwood Ave N between N 105th and N 112th Streets. The project plans include widening the roadway from four-lanes t

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