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fixing an over carbonation

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  • Taso Lyristis
    So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low attenuation. I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and bottled with a measured dose
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
      So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low
      attenuation. I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and
      bottled with a measured dose of priming sugar. Well apparently it still
      had some fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated,
      like really bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap
      each for a few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll
      start to gush), then recap. The idea being that some of the extra CO2
      will escape.

      Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?

      Cheers,
      Taso
    • Don Caffrey
      I have not tried it but that won t keep me from putting my 2 cents! I would try it. Keep everything nice and sanitary, and try only a couple of bottles. Wait
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
        I have not tried it but that won't keep me from putting my 2 cents!
         
        I would try it.  Keep everything nice and sanitary, and try only a couple of bottles.  Wait a few days and see how it worked.
        If it works do the whole batch.
        Since a stout can be served pretty low in carbonation for the style, the worst you geet is low carbed stout(assuming no infection).  Which is more than ok in my opinion.
        Get the bottles down to 32-33 degrees if you can, the colder it is the more CO2 stays dissolved.
         
        Don
         
        PS... I talked to Bob, he'll do a fully outfitted keg brew kettle with false bottom, ball valvle, thermo etc in copper and brass for $140.  Sounds like a deal to me.

         
        On 2/1/07, Taso Lyristis <taso@...> wrote:

        So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low
        attenuation. I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and
        bottled with a measured dose of priming sugar. Well apparently it still
        had some fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated,
        like really bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap
        each for a few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll
        start to gush), then recap. The idea being that some of the extra CO2
        will escape.

        Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?

        Cheers,
        Taso


      • alex wetmore
        I ve dealt with this a few times. I haven t tried that technique. My experience is that you ll have gushers and you ll probably lose some stout by doing that.
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
          I've dealt with this a few times.

          I haven't tried that technique. My experience is that you'll have
          gushers and you'll probably lose some stout by doing that.

          The last time that I had this happen was with mead. My technique was
          to dump the bottles into a clean sanitized keg, let it sit there for a
          month with an airlock, then rebottle from the keg. I'd suggest wearing
          gloves and safety glasses in case any of the bottles decide to explode
          while handling.

          I also had this happen with a belgian double that I made once. The
          beer wasn't very good so I put the bottles into sealed thick plastic
          containers (4 gallon buckets with locking lids) and let them explode.
          It made for some exciting noises.

          alex

          On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Taso Lyristis wrote:

          > So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low
          > attenuation. I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and
          > bottled with a measured dose of priming sugar. Well apparently it still
          > had some fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated,
          > like really bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap
          > each for a few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll
          > start to gush), then recap. The idea being that some of the extra CO2
          > will escape.
          >
          > Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Taso
          >
          >
        • Taso Lyristis
          Good idea with the keg. Kegging is sort of my fallback plan.. If the uncapping/recapping doesn t work or proves to be more trouble than it s worth, I ll
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
            Good idea with the keg. Kegging is sort of my fallback plan.. If the
            uncapping/recapping doesn't work or proves to be more trouble than it's
            worth, I'll probably just pour them all into a sanitized/purged keg and
            keep the beer there rather than re-bottling -- I am afraid, however, of
            the beer foaming up and overflowing the keg. We'll see how it goes. I
            suspect the mop will be involved at some stage of this operation :)

            > I also had this happen with a belgian double that I made once. The
            > beer wasn't very good so I put the bottles into sealed thick plastic
            > containers (4 gallon buckets with locking lids) and let them explode.
            > It made for some exciting noises.
            >
            Awesome. Sounds like something to try next 4th of July!
          • joe@germani.org
            Taso, I did something similar once, but with the reverse problem. I had a barley wine that was completely still. I tried several re-carbonation schemes,
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
              Taso,

              I did something similar once, but with the reverse
              problem. I had a barley wine that was completely still.
              I tried several re-carbonation schemes, including various
              amounts a dry yeast and actively fermenting yeast. The
              latter worked so I opened each bottle and added some
              active yeast.

              My point is that it is good to try a few techniques as a
              test first. I might try opening one cold, one room temp,
              maybe pour one into a sanitized growler with a air lock
              and see if it continues to ferment. Then pick the method
              that works best. And you get to drink the experiements
              anyway.

              That's my 2 cents.

              Joe

              On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:32:44 -0800
              Taso Lyristis <taso@...> wrote:
              > So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a
              >very low
              > attenuation. I thought it was done fermenting, so I
              >went ahead and
              > bottled with a measured dose of priming sugar. Well
              >apparently it still
              > had some fermenting to do as the bottles are now all
              >over carbonated,
              > like really bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice
              >and cold, uncap
              > each for a few seconds (can't wait longer than that or
              >else they'll
              > start to gush), then recap. The idea being that some of
              >the extra CO2
              > will escape.
              >
              > Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Taso
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • alex wetmore
              ... If that happens then stop for a while and wait for the keg to settle down. You will want to purge the keg first too, so that you are pouring the beer
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
                On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Taso Lyristis wrote:
                > Good idea with the keg. Kegging is sort of my fallback plan.. If the
                > uncapping/recapping doesn't work or proves to be more trouble than it's
                > worth, I'll probably just pour them all into a sanitized/purged keg and
                > keep the beer there rather than re-bottling -- I am afraid, however, of
                > the beer foaming up and overflowing the keg.

                If that happens then stop for a while and wait for the keg to settle
                down.

                You will want to purge the keg first too, so that you are pouring the
                beer through CO2 and not air.

                > We'll see how it goes. I suspect the mop will be involved at some
                > stage of this operation :)

                I did it outside and would recommend that approach.

                alex
              • willism
                I ve dealt with this on a couple of occasions simply by gently lifting the cap enough to bleed off the excess pressure. Yes it will start to foam up but you ll
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
                  I've dealt with this on a couple of occasions simply by gently lifting the cap enough to bleed off the excess pressure. Yes it will start to foam up but you'll have plenty of warning and can simply release it. Occasionally I've run a bottle through the capper again just to be sure but I really doubt it was ever necessary. The con to doing it this way is it is necessary to do it several times over several days. The pros are it is less invasive and therefore less risky.

                  The last time this happened it was on a Hobgoblin clone. When I got it settled out I could pour it down the center of the glass and let the crown rise 2 or 3" over the edge of the glass. It'd just stand there, stiff as a board. It was very thick and creamy. I don't know if it was the de-gassing process or the effect of the torrified wheat or both but it certainly was amusing.

                  - Michael

                  On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:33am Taso Lyristis wrote:

                  > So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low attenuation.
                  >  I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and bottled with a
                  > measured dose of priming sugar.  Well apparently it still had some
                  > fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated, like really
                  > bad.   So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap each for a
                  > few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll start to gush),
                  > then recap.  The idea being that some of the extra CO2 will escape.
                  > Has anybody tried this before?  How well did it work?
                  > Cheers, Taso
                  >
                  >

                • Taso Lyristis
                  Hmm, this is interesting. Just to make sure I understand what you re saying here - you lift the cap slightly to bleed, but then when you let go, the bottle is
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
                    Hmm, this is interesting. Just to make sure I understand what you're
                    saying here - you lift the cap slightly to bleed, but then when you let
                    go, the bottle is still effectively sealed? Like the cap sort of
                    "springs back"? I'll definitely try this method out first.. seems like
                    the easiest. I don't care if it takes several iterations. These
                    bottles have been sitting in the closet for a long time anyway.


                    willism wrote:
                    > I've dealt with this on a couple of occasions simply by gently lifting
                    > the cap enough to bleed off the excess pressure. Yes it will start to
                    > foam up but you'll have plenty of warning and can simply release it.
                    > Occasionally I've run a bottle through the capper again just to be
                    > sure but I really doubt it was ever necessary. The con to doing it
                    > this way is it is necessary to do it several times over several days.
                    > The pros are it is less invasive and therefore less risky.
                    >
                    > The last time this happened it was on a Hobgoblin clone. When I got it
                    > settled out I could pour it down the center of the glass and let the
                    > crown rise 2 or 3" over the edge of the glass. It'd just stand there,
                    > stiff as a board. It was very thick and creamy. I don't know if it was
                    > the de-gassing process or the effect of the torrified wheat or both
                    > but it certainly was amusing.
                    >
                    > - Michael
                    >
                    > On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:33am Taso Lyristis wrote:
                    > > So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low
                    > attenuation.
                    > > I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and bottled with a
                    > > measured dose of priming sugar. Well apparently it still had some
                    > > fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated, like really
                    > > bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap each for a
                    > > few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll start to gush),
                    > > then recap. The idea being that some of the extra CO2 will escape.
                    > > Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?
                    > > Cheers, Taso
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Michael Willis
                    Just be prepared to drink your mistakes. :-) Yes, that s correct; just lift the cap enough to bleed off excess. I ve not had any real problems with it
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007

                      Just be prepared to drink your mistakes. J Yes, that’s correct; just lift the cap enough to bleed off excess. I’ve not had any real problems with it resealing but do keep the capper close by just in case. - MIchael

                       


                      From: seattle_homebrewers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:seattle_homebrewers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Taso Lyristis
                      Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:37 PM
                      To: seattle_homebrewers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [seattle_homebrewers] fixing an over carbonation

                       

                      Hmm, this is interesting. Just to make sure I understand what you're
                      saying here - you lift the cap slightly to bleed, but then when you let
                      go, the bottle is still effectively sealed? Like the cap sort of
                      "springs back"? I'll definitely try this method out first.. seems like
                      the easiest. I don't care if it takes several iterations. These
                      bottles have been sitting in the closet for a long time anyway.

                      willism wrote:

                      > I've dealt with this on a couple of occasions simply by gently lifting
                      > the cap enough to bleed off the excess pressure. Yes it will start to
                      > foam up but you'll have plenty of warning and can simply release it.
                      > Occasionally I've run a bottle through the capper again just to be
                      > sure but I really doubt it was ever necessary. The con to doing it
                      > this way is it is necessary to do it several times over several days.
                      > The pros are it is less invasive and therefore less risky.
                      >
                      > The last time this happened it was on a Hobgoblin clone. When I got it
                      > settled out I could pour it down the center of the glass and let the
                      > crown rise 2 or 3" over the edge of the glass. It'd just stand there,
                      > stiff as a board. It was very thick and creamy. I don't know if it was
                      > the de-gassing process or the effect of the torrified wheat or both
                      > but it certainly was amusing.
                      >
                      > - Michael
                      >
                      > On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:33am Taso Lyristis wrote:
                      > > So a while back I brewed an oatmeal stout that had a very low
                      > attenuation.
                      > > I thought it was done fermenting, so I went ahead and bottled with a
                      > > measured dose of priming sugar. Well apparently it still had some
                      > > fermenting to do as the bottles are now all over carbonated, like
                      really
                      > > bad. So my idea is to get the bottles nice and cold, uncap each for a
                      > > few seconds (can't wait longer than that or else they'll start to
                      gush),
                      > > then recap. The idea being that some of the extra CO2 will escape.
                      > > Has anybody tried this before? How well did it work?
                      > > Cheers, Taso
                      > >
                      > >
                      >

                    • Taso Lyristis
                      A couple people asked at the last meeting so I thought I d post a follow-up. Bleeding off pressure by lifting up the cap did the trick. Had to do every bottle
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                        A couple people asked at the last meeting so I thought I'd post a
                        follow-up. Bleeding off pressure by lifting up the cap did the trick.
                        Had to do every bottle many many times since they were so
                        over-carbonated. I didn't count, but it must've been at least 10 times
                        each, maybe closer to 20. A labor of love.

                        So the basic idea is, like Michael said, lift up the cap just enough to
                        hear gas start coming out. The neck fills with foam within a few
                        seconds (at least it did in my case). Just when the slightest bit of
                        foam comes out the top, let go, and to my amazement, the bottle will
                        indeed reseal. Until I got the knack for it, some of them kept flowing,
                        but that was a easy to fix under the capper. Because the necks filled
                        with foam, I had to wait several minutes before repeating. Basically by
                        the time I got to the last bottle, the foam in the first bottle was just
                        about gone and the process could be repeated. I did a few rounds of
                        this over a period of about 3 days.

                        Temperature - I don't think it makes a difference. I tried doing some
                        cold and some warm. I was hoping the cold ones would not foam up but
                        they still did (did I mention how overcarbonated this beer was?). I
                        ended up doing most of them warm, with the idea that more gas would
                        leave the bottles faster.

                        Well, this was a good trick to learn that I can use the next time I
                        overcarbonate some bottles, which will hopefully be never.

                        Cheers,
                        Taso
                      • willism
                        When you get around to uncapping this for your enjoyment I d be curious to know if you think it has changed the heading characteristics. As I recall every
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                          When you get around to uncapping this for your enjoyment I'd be curious to know if  you think it has changed the heading characteristics. As I recall every time I've done this (three times, I'm a slow learner) the foam was much more dense and creamy than normal. It may have been the type of ale rather than the process that was responsible...I just don't know. Thanks!

                          - Michael

                          On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 9:16pm Taso Lyristis wrote:

                          > A couple people asked at the last meeting so I thought I'd post a
                          > follow-up.  Bleeding off pressure by lifting up the cap did the trick.
                          > Had to do every bottle many many times since they were so
                          > over-carbonated.  I didn't count, but it must've been at least 10 times
                          > each, maybe closer to 20.  A labor of love.
                          > So the basic idea is, like Michael said, lift up the cap just enough to
                          > hear gas start coming out.  The neck fills with foam within a few seconds
                          > (at least it did in my case).  Just when the slightest bit of foam comes
                          > out the top, let go, and to my amazement, the bottle will indeed reseal.
                          > Until I got the knack for it, some of them kept flowing, but that was a
                          > easy to fix under the capper.  Because the necks filled with foam, I had
                          > to wait several minutes before repeating.  Basically by the time I got to
                          > the last bottle, the foam in the first bottle was just about gone and the
                          > process could be repeated.  I did a few rounds of this over a period of
                          > about 3 days.
                          > Temperature - I don't think it makes a difference.  I tried doing some
                          > cold and some warm.  I was hoping the cold ones would not foam up but
                          > they still did (did I mention how overcarbonated this beer was?).  I
                          > ended up doing most of them warm, with the idea that more gas would leave
                          > the bottles faster.
                          > Well, this was a good trick to learn that I can use the next time I
                          > overcarbonate some bottles, which will hopefully be never.
                          > Cheers, Taso
                          >
                          >

                        • Taso Lyristis
                          Well I did already drink 2 of them.. how else would I know if they were vented enough yet ;) They did pour with a big head, but I attribute that mostly due
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 8, 2007
                            Well I did already drink 2 of them.. how else would I know if they were
                            vented enough yet ;) They did pour with a big head, but I attribute
                            that mostly due them still being a bit overcarbonated. It dissipated
                            quickly though. But then again the last 3 batches of my oatmeal stout
                            have had pretty crappy head retention.

                            I think I've seen the dense/creamy head you describe on other beers. My
                            mild brown seems to have this but it doesn't seem related to carbonation
                            level. Was it the same or similar recipe all 3 times for you?


                            willism wrote:
                            > When you get around to uncapping this for your enjoyment I'd be
                            > curious to know if you think it has changed the heading
                            > characteristics. As I recall every time I've done this (three times,
                            > I'm a slow learner) the foam was much more dense and creamy than
                            > normal. It may have been the type of ale rather than the process that
                            > was responsible...I just don't know. Thanks!
                            >
                            > - Michael
                            >
                            > On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 9:16pm Taso Lyristis wrote:
                            > > A couple people asked at the last meeting so I thought I'd post a
                            > > follow-up. Bleeding off pressure by lifting up the cap did the trick.
                            > > Had to do every bottle many many times since they were so
                            > > over-carbonated. I didn't count, but it must've been at least 10 times
                            > > each, maybe closer to 20. A labor of love.
                            > > So the basic idea is, like Michael said, lift up the cap just enough to
                            > > hear gas start coming out. The neck fills with foam within a few
                            > seconds
                            > > (at least it did in my case). Just when the slightest bit of foam comes
                            > > out the top, let go, and to my amazement, the bottle will indeed
                            > reseal.
                            > > Until I got the knack for it, some of them kept flowing, but that was a
                            > > easy to fix under the capper. Because the necks filled with foam, I had
                            > > to wait several minutes before repeating. Basically by the time I
                            > got to
                            > > the last bottle, the foam in the first bottle was just about gone
                            > and the
                            > > process could be repeated. I did a few rounds of this over a period of
                            > > about 3 days.
                            > > Temperature - I don't think it makes a difference. I tried doing some
                            > > cold and some warm. I was hoping the cold ones would not foam up but
                            > > they still did (did I mention how overcarbonated this beer was?). I
                            > > ended up doing most of them warm, with the idea that more gas would
                            > leave
                            > > the bottles faster.
                            > > Well, this was a good trick to learn that I can use the next time I
                            > > overcarbonate some bottles, which will hopefully be never.
                            > > Cheers, Taso
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • willism
                            My criteria has been when the rush no longer happens that s enough depressurization. I like your QA method better however. Also, mine was done over a series
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 9, 2007
                              My criteria has been when "the rush" no longer happens that's enough depressurization. I like your QA method better however. Also, mine was done over a series of days as the foam took much longer to drop. That might be a clue that the heading quality was already there and not the result of repeated depressurization cycles.

                              - Michael

                              On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 10:31pm Taso Lyristis wrote:

                              > Well I did already drink 2 of them.. how else would I know if they were
                              > vented enough yet ;)  They did pour with a big head, but I attribute that
                              > mostly due them still being a bit overcarbonated.  It dissipated quickly
                              > though.  But then again the last 3 batches of my oatmeal stout have had
                              > pretty crappy head retention.
                              > I think I've seen the dense/creamy head you describe on other beers.  My
                              > mild brown seems to have this but it doesn't seem related to carbonation
                              > level.  Was it the same or similar recipe all 3 times for you?
                              >
                              > willism wrote:
                              > > When you get around to uncapping this for your enjoyment I'd be curious
                              > > to know if  you think it has changed the heading characteristics. As I
                              > > recall every time I've done this (three times, I'm a slow learner) the
                              > > foam was much more dense and creamy than normal. It may have been the
                              > > type of ale rather than the process that was responsible...I just don't
                              > > know. Thanks!
                              > > - Michael
                              > > On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 9:16pm Taso Lyristis wrote:
                              > > > A couple people asked at the last meeting so I thought I'd post a
                              > > > follow-up.  Bleeding off pressure by lifting up the cap did the
                              > > > trick. Had to do every bottle many many times since they were so
                              > > > over-carbonated.  I didn't count, but it must've been at least 10
                              > > > times each, maybe closer to 20.  A labor of love. So the basic idea
                              > > > is, like Michael said, lift up the cap just enough to hear gas start
                              > > > coming out.  The neck fills with foam within a few
                              > > seconds
                              > > > (at least it did in my case).  Just when the slightest bit of foam
                              > > > comes out the top, let go, and to my amazement, the bottle will
                              > > > indeed
                              > > reseal.
                              > > > Until I got the knack for it, some of them kept flowing, but that was
                              > > > a easy to fix under the capper.  Because the necks filled with foam,
                              > > > I had to wait several minutes before repeating.  Basically by the
                              > > > time I
                              > > got to
                              > > > the last bottle, the foam in the first bottle was just about gone
                              > > and the
                              > > > process could be repeated.  I did a few rounds of this over a period
                              > > > of about 3 days. Temperature - I don't think it makes a difference.
                              > > > I tried doing some cold and some warm.  I was hoping the cold ones
                              > > > would not foam up but they still did (did I mention how
                              > > > overcarbonated this beer was?).  I ended up doing most of them warm,
                              > > > with the idea that more gas would
                              > > leave
                              > > > the bottles faster. Well, this was a good trick to learn that I can
                              > > > use the next time I overcarbonate some bottles, which will hopefully
                              > > > be never. Cheers, Taso
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >

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