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Re: Subaudible Tone Decoding?

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  • Hooligan
    Thanks Mark. I ve used that one before. It works sometimes . There s also another one called DCSDecode that was developed on the Labview platform and pretty
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 31, 2013
      Thanks Mark. I've used that one before. It works "sometimes". There's also another one called DCSDecode that was developed on the Labview platform and pretty much abandoned. The Labview setup is huge and a memory hog. When it worked properly it did a fair job of decoding both CTCSS and DCS.

      I am a registered user of VAC but I'm still at the basics of sending audio to the DSD software for decoding P25, DMR, etc. Haven't tried having audio passed to PC speakers and out VAC at the same time. It would be nice if it could be included in SDR-Radio, but that said I understand that Simon has a great deal of receivers to deal with and that it may never happen.

      Scott


      --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Mark L. Hammond" wrote:
      >
      > If it won't be added to SDR-Radio as a built in function, "All you have to do" is route the audio from SDR-Radio to VAC, and then feed VAC into a software decoder. It'll work...
      >
      > I've had a software decoder before, but can't remember which one it was. Just found this one--I haven't used it, but it might fit your need. http://www.antistatic.org/winctcss/
      >
    • Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV
      Hi, I can detect tones, but what should happen with them? For now I am short of time, but if you can give me a clear, concise requirement I ll consider it.
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013

        Hi,

         

        I can detect tones, but what should happen with them? For now I am short of time, but if you can give me a clear, concise requirement I’ll consider it.

         

        Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV

        http://dit-dit-dit.com

         

        From: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hooligan
        Sent: 01 February 2013 01:27
        To: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Subaudible Tone Decoding?

         

         

        Paul's message about PI codes sparked a thought in me although it was just because of the similar letters (PL of course being Motorola's designation for CTCSS subaudible tones).

        Now that SDR-Radio will be used a lot more in the VHF-UHF ranges thanks to the RTL2832U's, is there any chance at some point that something could be built into the software to decode CTCSS and DCS subaudible tones? It's nice to have CTCSS and DCS handy when searching for new frequencies; often using those tones helps with identification of the station being heard. I have a few hardware tone decoders but I haven't figured out how to get a baseband signal out of an SDR to an external device; not even sure it's at all possible. It seems to me it would be much easier to do it in software. Then again...I'm not a programmer. :-)

        Simon, these RTL2832U's must be both a blessing and a curse for you. I've used your software for quite some time with my SDR-14, but being able to use a $20 device with it remotely is fantastic. I'm not sure this type of tone decoding could be added, but it would be wonderful if so.

        Thanks.

        Scott

      • Hooligan
        Hi Simon, My thought would be to simply display the received subaudible tone as it helps with identification of unknown stations when DX ing the VHF and UHF
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
          Hi Simon,

          My thought would be to simply display the received subaudible tone as it helps with identification of unknown stations when DX'ing the VHF and UHF public safety bands here in the US.

          Obviously these tones are used for squelching purposes, but in my case I'd simply be interested in being able to view them on screen when a signal is received. Hopefully that makes sense.

          Thanks for your consideration!

          Scott/KC1UA

          --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV" wrote:
          >
          > Hi,

          > I can detect tones, but what should happen with them? For now I am short of
          > time, but if you can give me a clear, concise requirement I'll consider it.

          >
          > Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV
        • Calder Latham
          “PL” tones are usually used for squelch purposes. Also called “CTCSS”. So only signals from a given service are heard. I am not aware of where PL tones
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                “PL” tones are usually used for squelch purposes. Also called “CTCSS”. So only signals from a given service are heard. I am not aware of where PL tones are used as Identification. To the best of my knowledge those tones are not a part of the FCC (in the US) record. Stations identify in good old Morse Code at a speed not to exceed 20 WPM. Usually this is done in non-tone mode so as not cause the squelch to open. FWIW..
             
            Cal

            W1HHO from the woods of Maine.

          • Hooligan
            There are databases available, primarily the one at Radio Reference, that include subaudible tones. Again...these assist with the identification of unknown
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
              There are databases available, primarily the one at Radio Reference, that include subaudible tones. Again...these assist with the identification of unknown signals. It has nothing to do with the FCC whatsoever. I completely understand the intended use of CTCSS and DCS tones.

              Scott

              --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Calder Latham" wrote:
              >
              > “PL” tones are usually used for squelch purposes. Also called “CTCSS”. So only signals from a given service are heard. I am not aware of where PL tones are used as Identification. To the best of my knowledge those tones are not a part of the FCC (in the US) record. Stations identify in good old Morse Code at a speed not to exceed 20 WPM. Usually this is done in non-tone mode so as not cause the squelch to open. FWIW..
              >
              > Cal
              >
              > W1HHO from the woods of Maine.
              >
            • Calder Latham
              Scott, sure would like to know more about these sub-audible tones. Do they send an ID? I spent a few years in the two way business. Maybe I can learn something
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                    Scott, sure would like to know more about these sub-audible tones. Do they send an ID? I spent a few years in the two way business. Maybe I can learn something new here...Thanks...
                 
                Cal

                W1HHO from the woods of Maine.

              • Danie Jacobs
                Hi Simon We use CTCSS tones for not reviving any communication except your own group of radios on a specific frequincy. It will be very nice if I can decode
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                  Hi Simon
                  We use CTCSS tones for not reviving any communication except your own group of radios on a specific frequincy. It will be very nice if I can decode and display the CTCSS tone and if you can add the feature to select a specific tone and for the squeals to open the audio when that tone is present on the carrier ( FM communication ). It can also be used to identify the user on a Community repeater. At the moment I use external software to decode CTCSS and DCS. ( DCSdecoder )
                  Danie
                  ZS4JJ



                  From: Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV <simon@...>
                  To: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013, 12:48
                  Subject: RE: [sdr-radio-com] Subaudible Tone Decoding?

                   
                  Hi,
                   
                  I can detect tones, but what should happen with them? For now I am short of time, but if you can give me a clear, concise requirement I’ll consider it.
                   
                  Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV
                  http://dit-dit-dit.com
                   
                  From: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hooligan
                  Sent: 01 February 2013 01:27
                  To: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Subaudible Tone Decoding?
                   
                   
                  Paul's message about PI codes sparked a thought in me although it was just because of the similar letters (PL of course being Motorola's designation for CTCSS subaudible tones).

                  Now that SDR-Radio will be used a lot more in the VHF-UHF ranges thanks to the RTL2832U's, is there any chance at some point that something could be built into the software to decode CTCSS and DCS subaudible tones? It's nice to have CTCSS and DCS handy when searching for new frequencies; often using those tones helps with identification of the station being heard. I have a few hardware tone decoders but I haven't figured out how to get a baseband signal out of an SDR to an external device; not even sure it's at all possible. It seems to me it would be much easier to do it in software. Then again...I'm not a programmer. :-)

                  Simon, these RTL2832U's must be both a blessing and a curse for you. I've used your software for quite some time with my SDR-14, but being able to use a $20 device with it remotely is fantastic. I'm not sure this type of tone decoding could be added, but it would be wonderful if so.

                  Thanks.

                  Scott


                • spleen1986
                  SDR# has the capability, I m sure Simon will get to it when he gets the chance... It s definitely a plus feature if you ve a need to catalog local Amateur or
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                    SDR# has the capability, I'm sure Simon will get to it when he gets the chance...
                    It's definitely a plus feature if you've a need to catalog local Amateur or commercial transmitters, especially in the crowded and overlapping commercial bands...


                    --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Hooligan" wrote:
                    >
                    > Paul's message about PI codes sparked a thought in me although it was just because of the similar letters (PL of course being Motorola's designation for CTCSS subaudible tones).
                    >
                    > Now that SDR-Radio will be used a lot more in the VHF-UHF ranges thanks to the RTL2832U's, is there any chance at some point that something could be built into the software to decode CTCSS and DCS subaudible tones? It's nice to have CTCSS and DCS handy when searching for new frequencies; often using those tones helps with identification of the station being heard. I have a few hardware tone decoders but I haven't figured out how to get a baseband signal out of an SDR to an external device; not even sure it's at all possible. It seems to me it would be much easier to do it in software. Then again...I'm not a programmer. :-)
                    >
                    > Simon, these RTL2832U's must be both a blessing and a curse for you. I've used your software for quite some time with my SDR-14, but being able to use a $20 device with it remotely is fantastic. I'm not sure this type of tone decoding could be added, but it would be wonderful if so.
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    >
                    > Scott
                    >
                  • Hooligan
                    Cal, Here is how I think displaying subaudible tones in SDR-Radio software could be of help to some: 1. Let s say I m searching in the 155 MHz public safety
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                      Cal,

                      Here is how I think displaying subaudible tones in SDR-Radio software could be of help to some:

                      1. Let's say I'm searching in the 155 MHz public safety band. I come across voice communications on 155.565 MHz in the narrow FM mode.
                      2. If the software had the capability, let's say it displays a CTCSS tone of 110.9.
                      3. I don't know who the station is, so I go to the Radio Reference Database at http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db. Once there I scroll to the Frequency Search By State section of that page.
                      4. In the frequency box I enter 155.565.
                      5. In the Select state(s) to search box I either use my local states or search entire database.
                      6. In the Tone Filter box I select 110.9.
                      7. I click the search button, and ID the station from the results presented.

                      That is how I believe the display of a CTCSS or DCS code will help with identifying an unknown signal. Radio Reference is the largest database that contains CTCSS and DCS info which assists in the identification of an unknown signal; there are many others as well.

                      Regards,

                      Scott


                      --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Calder Latham" wrote:
                      >
                      > Scott, sure would like to know more about these sub-audible tones. Do they send an ID? I spent a few years in the two way business. Maybe I can learn something new here...Thanks...
                      >
                      > Cal
                      >
                      > W1HHO from the woods of Maine.
                      >
                    • Calder Latham
                      Scott, when the station ID’s in morse code you will then have a positive ID as to where it is from some database. Those PL’s can change anytime. I know, I
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                            Scott, when the station ID’s in morse code you will then have a positive ID as to where it is from some database. Those PL’s can change anytime. I know, I used to change them.
                         
                            Anyway thanks for your answer. Of course it is all up to Simon who has a lot on his plate....You have a great day and thanks for the chat.
                         
                        Cal

                        W1HHO from the woods of Maine.

                      • Hooligan
                        Hi Cal, You re absolutely correct about that, and I do know my morse code. :-) But that said, not all radio hobbyists do, and the CTCSS/DCS ID method of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                          Hi Cal,

                          You're absolutely correct about that, and I do know my morse code. :-) But that said, not all radio hobbyists do, and the CTCSS/DCS ID method of station identification is a sound one. Further, when the tones do change it behooves us to submit the changed data to those databases so they're of benefit to all. Your CWID method would be of most help in that event I think...to those of us that still know the code of course.

                          Thanks again.

                          Scott/KC1UA



                          --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Calder Latham" wrote:
                          >
                          > Scott, when the station ID’s in morse code you will then have a positive ID as to where it is from some database. Those PL’s can change anytime. I know, I used to change them.
                        • Dean
                          And even if your Morse is rusty or nonexistent, you can always cheat by recording the audio of the Morse ID, then importing into Audacity or similar. Have
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                            And even if your Morse is rusty or nonexistent, you can always cheat by recording the audio of the Morse ID, then importing into Audacity or similar.  Have your Morse chart ready, and simply identify the dots and dashes on the waveform line and decode thusly. 



                            On 2/1/2013 15:00, Hooligan wrote:
                             

                            Hi Cal,

                            You're absolutely correct about that, and I do know my morse code. :-) But that said, not all radio hobbyists do, and the CTCSS/DCS ID method of station identification is a sound one. Further, when the tones do change it behooves us to submit the changed data to those databases so they're of benefit to all. Your CWID method would be of most help in that event I think...to those of us that still know the code of course.

                            Thanks again.

                            Scott/KC1UA


                          • Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV
                            Something like this? Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV http://dit-dit-dit.com From: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean And
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013

                            Something like this?

                             

                            Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV

                            http://dit-dit-dit.com

                             

                            From: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean

                            And even if your Morse is rusty or nonexistent, you can always cheat by recording the audio of the Morse ID, then importing into Audacity or similar.  Have your Morse chart ready, and simply identify the dots and dashes on the waveform line and decode thusly. 

                          • Hooligan
                            Call me crazy, but I d opt for the big (or small) display of the tone itself... :-) If I had the choice of course... ;-) Scott
                            Message 14 of 16 , Feb 1, 2013
                              Call me crazy, but I'd opt for the big (or small) display of the tone itself... :-)

                              If I had the choice of course... ;-)

                              Scott

                              --- In sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com, "Simon G4ELI/HB9DRV" wrote:
                              >
                              > Something like this?
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