Re: Hey Gale! Look at this man :-)
- --- In email@example.com, "Mark" <parashakti108@y...> wrote:
> --"geoerdeaen" wrote:Actually not. Politics iz abot dealing with societal power,
> >G: A new political paradigm: Open politics
> > Open politics requires full transparency of political action...
> -M: At a legislative level, right?
legislative is only formalisation of these relations. But politics is
pretty much over legislative.
> >G:... www.tiaktiv.org One more thing. Recently I wrote some newI am interested in your model :-)
> texts about general concept, one of these things is "Trust network",
> but I do not have translation for than.
> -M: Trust network - that is SD2. How would you algorithmicly process
> poll data?
> >G: All in all, it seems extremely good thing you are doing, and ICool.
> strongly believe that it is the time for the NPS thanks to the
> internet and possiblity to create new power based on Trust netoworks.
> >G: One more thing. Do you have any people with you in this project?
> -M: If there are any, they are here, you can ask.
> >G: Did you try to create politcal base? I am aksing this becauseOh, maybe I could help you in this part of project!
> that is whatI am actually doing in Croatia and synergy is allways
> good thing :9 Best wishes! Gale gale1(@)vip.hr
> -M: I am also getting response from WorldCitizen,
> but people are getting stuck on the PageRank algorithm - they seem
> to think that they are supposed to understand it.
> Mark, Seattle
- --Markus Schatten wrote:
> Mark wrote:a republican - I am for principled governance. When Bush went
> > -M: We appear to be of a similar political mind-set. I am simply
against WRITTEN agreements with the UN, this about caused me to flip-
out. The world's first federal democratic-republic has standards to
uphold. We should NEVER violate written agreements. This all has the
smell of *empire* - yuck! By contrast, I will uphold my word even
with the enemy. I am even willing to protect the enemy from
unprincipled allies. They can actually trust me more than they can
>S: I like your attitude ;-) I do not consider my self as apolitician or even a political activist. The only thing wich kind of
forced me to get into this project is the fact that even if I don't
mind about politics, nowdays politics still has me in mind. Later as
I started to read more about politict I realized that I can't get
any real facts and information about the real political processes,
there's no bit of transparency.
-M: Its all designed to be a flip'n head-trip - a puppet show.
>S: Politicians nowdays are not the most trusted people, but peoplewho will even kill to get more power. To be clear, I make a
distinction between nowdays politics and politics as a science
(politology). I think politics should be a science, a science wich
tries to find the best solutions for the world as a whole.
-M: Wouldn't that be 'political engineering','political design'
> >M: And now the response to Katrina has embarassed my country yetagain. :-(
>S: I saw that. Very sad story.-M: A British political cartoon showed Superman floating dead in
floodwaters - terrible!
Another showed Uncle Sam holding a dead body while government
administators were all pointing fingers at each other. :-(
I simply want benevolent order.
> >>S: I was thinking about mobile phones (java midlets are very farthese days), but was also thinking of using conventional channels
like the press or even teletext.
> >-M: Yes, moblie phones, leaflets AND teletext. Once a critcalmass is reached, such a movement could push its way even through a
>S: But the first thing is to reach the critical mass ;-)-M: I think that the key is simply to get results. Well run
organizations using SD2 will speak for themselves.
> >-M: This adds an element of spontenaety and serendipity.-M: In addition to proximity detection, maybe they could transfer
data, too. Like updating node values. Maybe based on RFID
technology. Maybe this could be used for countryside town meetings.
EXTREMELY CHEAP! $3.00?
> >-M: The combination of web, leaflets, cellphones and teletextcould serve as the next best thing to independent media (maybe even
>S: Well, that's the approach we took on TiAktiv, hoping for thebest :-)
-M: I am an experienced activist - this will work.
> >M: The beauty of SD2 is that its just an organizational method,not an ideology - so its hard for imperialists to detect and oppose.
Infact, I encourage imperialists to use SD2 if they like.
>S: That is a good thing. The information system wich we try toimplement should be a platform for a transparent political process.
SD-2 as a organizational method fits just in.
> >M: SD2 could even be marketed to the Chinese as a communistictool:
>S: ;-))) But when they realize what it does...-M: Even though China isn't a real democracy, they are a republic,
so they usually give reasons for whatever they do.
What would they say about SD2? If everyone in a group was a commie,
SD2 would select a commie. The people selected would just have a
tendicy to be more intelligent and less entrenched than the rest.
Hardliner: "SD2 tends to pick reformers!"
Response: "So, are the reforms good? What would be the test of the
quality of the reforms? Shouldn't the highest ranked determine what
*good* policy is?"
> >M: "Its for bringing about Marx's final stage of communism -decentralism." OR, "Its for making the communist party a more
coherent entity." All this could be true. The most common and
powerful form of propaganda is the truth.
>S: Well, what is the truth? ;-)-M: Whats good about SD2 is that it can be used to find those who
are most qualified to find the best approximations of the truth.
>S: BTW. has there been any research or project on SD-2? Has someonetried to make an experiment on real people? (Sorry if something
about this was posted allready)
-M: Only pilot studies using PageRank. Fully operational SD2 hasn't
been done yet (unless Timur has some secrets). Denis Bider of
Slovenia did a polling of his Mensa group, I analyzed the data -
infact the network graphic on the homepage is based on his data.
Timur of Khidmat Foundation in Pakistan did a polling of Contact
Youth - 16 teenage boys - all voting for each other in a SD2
compliant way. Timur was very happy about the results and plans to
organize two villages in Pakistan with my system. You can see the
network graphic based on his data in the photos section, or on my
Timur, are you reading these posts? How are you doing?
> >-M: The more platforms, the better. The idea is to make it as[...]
> >convenient for people as possible.
>S: I agree.
> >The American Java-based program also has PageRank in it:-M: Rock'n.
> >This is an applet with PageRank in Java:
>S: I saw the two implementations. I'll could program it.
> >S: Could you make a macro for a StarOffice spreadsheet?OpenOffice.
>S: I never worked with starOffice, but I could make you a macro for
-M: I am assuming that this is a Linux based spreadsheet, if so,
> >1. Names of all participants would be listed.prescribed constraints of having the highest two with equal weights,
> >2. Who these people vote for would follow.
> >3. The voter would have the option to weight the votes or not.
> >4. If the voter doesn't weight the votes, then it would be normal
> >PageRank with the constraint of at least two votes.
> >5. If the voter does weight the votes, then its within my
then descending weights, Borda-count style.
> >6. The output would list the participants in order by rank, witha percentage of total rank at the side.
> >Sound good?information.
>S: Shouldn't be hard do to program it, but I will need more
-M: The rest is just PageRank. The people are the nodes, and the
constraints that I listed are the modifications to PageRank.
> >S: If you program this, I'll show it to the students at theUniversity of Washington.
>S: OK, but I'm in a rush now. I have to program to applicationstill the end of the month. When I finish them I'll try to make you