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A observation question

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  • Fred
    Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my observatory walls, I noticed something different. As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
      Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
      observatory walls, I noticed something different.

      As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
      river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!

      By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?
      Or was it something else?

      What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!

      Fred
      Prairie Creek Observatory
      Charleston, AR
    • Thad Floryan
      ... Possibly. ... Some web sites of interest in this regards: Clear air turbulence: Satellite cloud
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
        --- In sct-user@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <poppafred@c...> wrote:
        > Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
        > observatory walls, I noticed something different.
        >
        > As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
        > river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
        >
        > By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?

        Possibly.

        > Or was it something else?
        >
        > What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!

        Some web sites of interest in this regards:

        Clear air turbulence:

        <http://orbit35i.nesdis.noaa.gov/arad/fpdt/tifcsts.html>

        Satellite cloud pictures:

        <http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/ghcc_home.html>

        Jetstream:

        <http://squall.sfsu.edu/crws/jetstream.html>

        NOAA CONUS forecasts:

        <http://weather.gov/forecasts/graphical/sectors/conusLoop.php>

        and, of course, the CLear Sky Clocks:

        <http://cleardarksky.com/>
      • Allan Mayer
        ... Just came in from looking at Mars (4:45 am - 5:15 am EST) and kinda noticed it too. I chalked it up the the OTA not being cooled down, as I had not given
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
          Fred wrote:

          >Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
          >observatory walls, I noticed something different.
          >
          >As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
          >river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
          >
          >By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?
          >Or was it something else?
          >
          >What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
          >
          >Fred
          >Prairie Creek Observatory
          >Charleston, AR
          >
          >
          >
          >

          Just came in from looking at Mars (4:45 am - 5:15 am EST)
          and kinda noticed it too. I chalked it up the the OTA not
          being cooled down, as I had not given it enough time to
          cool down. (orange tube C 8)

          Still it looks quite nice this morning :)


          Allan Mayer
        • John Mahony
          The under running water apearance is common, but I don t think it s the jet stream. The jet stream moves so fast and is so high that the result normally
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
            The "under running water" apearance is common, but I don't think it's the jet
            stream. The jet stream moves so fast and is so high that the result normally
            appears like a general, and rather severe, blurring- bright stars look like
            boiling fuzzy blobs, and planets are fuzzy, with rapid variation sometimes seen
            around the edge. And it's not the scope, since effects from the scope are
            usually more irregular, not a smooth "running stream" effect. When out of
            focus, you'll notice the distortions from warm air rising from the central
            baffle tube (closer to focus, you'll see a spike rising from bright objects).
            And from the rest of the aperture, out of focus images show turbulence rising
            from around the edge, and/or "tube current" distortions at the top of the
            image.

            -John


            --- Allan Mayer <SCTUSER@...> wrote:

            > Fred wrote:
            >
            > >Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
            > >observatory walls, I noticed something different.
            > >
            > >As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
            > >river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
            > >
            > >By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?
            > >Or was it something else?
            > >
            > >What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
            > >
            > >Fred
            > >Prairie Creek Observatory
            > >Charleston, AR
            > >
            >
            > Just came in from looking at Mars (4:45 am - 5:15 am EST)
            > and kinda noticed it too. I chalked it up the the OTA not
            > being cooled down, as I had not given it enough time to
            > cool down. (orange tube C 8)
            >
            > Still it looks quite nice this morning :)
            >
            >
            > Allan Mayer


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          • Ken Hutchinson
            ... I saw something like this two winters ago. I was observing Jupiter and had a nice steady view. In less than a minute it changed to the effect you describe.
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
              --- In sct-user@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <poppafred@c...> wrote:
              > Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
              > observatory walls, I noticed something different.
              >
              > As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
              > river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
              >
              > By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?
              > Or was it something else?
              >
              > What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
              >
              > Fred
              > Prairie Creek Observatory
              > Charleston, AR

              I saw something like this two winters ago. I was observing Jupiter and
              had a nice steady view. In less than a minute it changed to the effect
              you describe. This was on a calm winter evening and I suspect that the
              exhaust plume from a neighbor's furnace drifted across my line of sight.

              Ken
            • P T Chambers
              Hi Yup, jet stream. Typically you can defocus from infinity to slightly closer (dont know how to describe it, but focus in front of the object) and see the
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
                Hi

                Yup, jet stream. Typically you can defocus from infinity to slightly
                closer (dont know how to describe it, but focus in "front" of the object)
                and see the atmosphere moving. If the jet stream is overhead you can see
                it easily.

                ---------
                Phil Chambers [ptchamb-at-svpal.org] (S.F. Bay Area - Calif. USA)

                On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Fred wrote:

                > Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
                > observatory walls, I noticed something different.
                >
                > As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
                > river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
                >
                > By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet stream?
                > Or was it something else?
                >
                > What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
                >
                > Fred
                > Prairie Creek Observatory
                > Charleston, AR
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Visit the sct-user home page at:
                >
                >
                >
                > http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Fred
                Hi Phil, I was at about 30 deg above the horizon so there was a lot of air in the way. Like you said, I was having trouble seeing Mars so I refocusing
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 2, 2005
                  Hi Phil,

                  I was at about 30 deg above the horizon so there was a lot of air in
                  the way. Like you said, I was having trouble seeing Mars so I
                  refocusing slightly and the laminar air flow came into focus. Man,
                  it was flat moving! Wasn't tube currents, I know what those look
                  like. This was pretty far away to come into focus that far out.

                  Fred
                  Prairie Creek Observatory
                  Charleston, AR

                  --- In sct-user@yahoogroups.com, P T Chambers <ptchamb@s...> wrote:
                  > Hi
                  >
                  > Yup, jet stream. Typically you can defocus from infinity to
                  slightly
                  > closer (dont know how to describe it, but focus in "front" of the
                  object)
                  > and see the atmosphere moving. If the jet stream is overhead you
                  can see
                  > it easily.
                  >
                  > ---------
                  > Phil Chambers [ptchamb-at-svpal.org] (S.F. Bay Area - Calif. USA)
                  >
                  > On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Fred wrote:
                  >
                  > > Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
                  > > observatory walls, I noticed something different.
                  > >
                  > > As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
                  > > river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
                  > >
                  > > By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet
                  stream?
                  > > Or was it something else?
                  > >
                  > > What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
                  > >
                  > > Fred
                  > > Prairie Creek Observatory
                  > > Charleston, AR
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Visit the sct-user home page at:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                • P T Chambers
                  Well, in retrospect, it is easy to say jet stream but there is fast moving air at high altitudes that doesnt have to actually be the jet stream. I find that
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 2, 2005
                    Well, in retrospect, it is easy to say "jet stream" but there is fast
                    moving air at high altitudes that doesnt have to actually be the jet
                    stream.

                    I find that it is pretty easy to focus on it and you see the "river".
                    Whether it is the actual jet stream or just a high altitude flow, I dont
                    really know. It only appears out of focus in the "near" direction and
                    doesnt appear if you "out of focus" in the opposite direction so it is
                    focusing on something moving quickly that is mostly transparent.

                    In any case, this is not tube currents but a "wavyness" across the entire
                    fov.

                    ---------
                    Phil Chambers [ptchamb-at-svpal.org] (S.F. Bay Area - Calif. USA)

                    On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Fred wrote:

                    > Hi Phil,
                    >
                    > I was at about 30 deg above the horizon so there was a lot of air in
                    > the way. Like you said, I was having trouble seeing Mars so I
                    > refocusing slightly and the laminar air flow came into focus. Man,
                    > it was flat moving! Wasn't tube currents, I know what those look
                    > like. This was pretty far away to come into focus that far out.
                    >
                    > Fred
                    > Prairie Creek Observatory
                    > Charleston, AR
                    >
                    > --- In sct-user@yahoogroups.com, P T Chambers <ptchamb@s...> wrote:
                    > > Hi
                    > >
                    > > Yup, jet stream. Typically you can defocus from infinity to
                    > slightly
                    > > closer (dont know how to describe it, but focus in "front" of the
                    > object)
                    > > and see the atmosphere moving. If the jet stream is overhead you
                    > can see
                    > > it easily.
                    > >
                    > > ---------
                    > > Phil Chambers [ptchamb-at-svpal.org] (S.F. Bay Area - Calif. USA)
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Fred wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Tonight, after allowing Mars to rise high enough to clear my
                    > > > observatory walls, I noticed something different.
                    > > >
                    > > > As I focused the SCT on Mars, it was like I was looking through a
                    > > > river of very clear water. And it was flat moving too!
                    > > >
                    > > > By chance, was I seeing the effect of looking through a jet
                    > stream?
                    > > > Or was it something else?
                    > > >
                    > > > What ever it was, it really looked pretty cool!
                    > > >
                    > > > Fred
                    > > > Prairie Creek Observatory
                    > > > Charleston, AR
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Visit the sct-user home page at:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit the sct-user home page at:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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