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[sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser

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  • James A. Thibert
    I just wanted to follow-up on your last comment.I too have all the books on star collimation/testing etc.The reason is because I didn t know what I had to do
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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      I just wanted to follow-up on your last comment.I too have all the books on
      star collimation/testing etc.The reason is because I didn't know what I had
      to do to progress at astrophotography.Someday I will write my autobiography
      as an amateur astro photog...the title is going to be MASOCHRISTRONOMY
      TALES or HOW I WAS ALMOST CRUSHED UNDER A $25,000.LEARNING CURVE
      Anyway,the point being,as we learn one needs a base from which to compare
      and progress.I heard about collimation and thought my scope was fine.I read
      about the star tests and figured my stars would pass so why write the test.I
      had read about poor seeing but what the heck...I've got 20-20 vision and
      don't wear glasses.
      It was not until my decision to invest in the Kendrick laser that
      I had the confidece to even touch those 3 little screws on my secondary.If
      nothing else I figured,once registered,my laser would at least put me back
      to where I began and that confidence led me to collimating,star
      testing,taking apart my scope for cleaning,flocking and stress relieving
      and then even more important to me,understanding and reading the seeing.
      Now my scope is perfectly tuned,better than new and I spend those poorer
      seeing nights enjoying optical viewing than being perturbed
      by wasting my time trying to keep a bouncing guide star from wrecking
      5 hours of shooting I shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
      After 2 years of full time hard work,freezing cold and learning more than
      chicken little I am having FUN!
      Now if only Santa Barbara could do for me what Jim Kendrick has done.

      Thanx...jimmy

      >From: "Doug LePage" <xuxek@...>
      >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
      >To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
      >Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser
      >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:12:50 -0500
      >
      >Chuck you are absolutely right!! The laser does its job because I can't
      >due
      >to poor seeing, weather conditions (clouds) etc. My diffraction pattern is
      >not like the textbook it is like a fat outer ring with micro fine inner
      >diffraction rings that move around with the least little air current. One
      >moment it looks good the next moment it doesn't....the laser solved that.
      >
      >Doug LePage
      >Miami, Fl.
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Chuck Hancock [mailto:cdh59@...]
      >Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:36 PM
      >To: sct-user@egroups.com
      >Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser
      >
      >I don't have a laser collimator, so I don't have to defend it for
      >reasons of pride, etc. Nor do I have 1st-hand experience with these
      >things. But, anyway, I think the atrtraction of the LC is the ability
      >to collimate accurately, quickly, and in any weather conditions, day or
      >night - once the initial setup is done.
      >
      >Comments?
      >
      > > obtuse, but is this procedure supposed to be easier and more accurate
      > > than a high-power star collimation?
      > > Do people who complain about the difficulty of star collimation actually
      > > think this laser procedure is easier?!
      >
      >--
      >Best regards,
      >Chuck Hancock
      >
      >c d h 5 9 at b e l l s o u t h d o t n e t
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      ______________________________________________________
    • Doug LePage
      Hey Jim, I too had that experience. The weird thing about the laser is that people either love it or hate it, there doesn t appear to be much middle ground
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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        Hey Jim,
        I too had that experience. The weird thing about the laser is that people
        either love it or hate it, there doesn't appear to be much middle ground
        here. I hear "it changed my life" or "it doesn't seem to work"
        I think that IS SO STRANGE! Hundreds of people are totally satisfied
        including you......what's up here?
        Doug LePage
        Miami, Fl.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: James A. Thibert [mailto:thibertj@...]
        Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 7:56 PM
        To: sct-user@egroups.com
        Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser

        I just wanted to follow-up on your last comment.I too have all the books on
        star collimation/testing etc.The reason is because I didn't know what I had
        to do to progress at astrophotography.Someday I will write my autobiography
        as an amateur astro photog...the title is going to be MASOCHRISTRONOMY
        TALES or HOW I WAS ALMOST CRUSHED UNDER A $25,000.LEARNING CURVE
        Anyway,the point being,as we learn one needs a base from which to compare
        and progress.I heard about collimation and thought my scope was fine.I read
        about the star tests and figured my stars would pass so why write the test.I
        had read about poor seeing but what the heck...I've got 20-20 vision and
        don't wear glasses.
        It was not until my decision to invest in the Kendrick laser that
        I had the confidece to even touch those 3 little screws on my secondary.If
        nothing else I figured,once registered,my laser would at least put me back
        to where I began and that confidence led me to collimating,star
        testing,taking apart my scope for cleaning,flocking and stress relieving
        and then even more important to me,understanding and reading the seeing.
        Now my scope is perfectly tuned,better than new and I spend those poorer
        seeing nights enjoying optical viewing than being perturbed
        by wasting my time trying to keep a bouncing guide star from wrecking
        5 hours of shooting I shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
        After 2 years of full time hard work,freezing cold and learning more than
        chicken little I am having FUN!
        Now if only Santa Barbara could do for me what Jim Kendrick has done.

        Thanx...jimmy

        >From: "Doug LePage" <xuxek@...>
        >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
        >To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
        >Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser
        >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:12:50 -0500
        >
        >Chuck you are absolutely right!! The laser does its job because I can't
        >due
        >to poor seeing, weather conditions (clouds) etc. My diffraction pattern is
        >not like the textbook it is like a fat outer ring with micro fine inner
        >diffraction rings that move around with the least little air current. One
        >moment it looks good the next moment it doesn't....the laser solved that.
        >
        >Doug LePage
        >Miami, Fl.
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Chuck Hancock [mailto:cdh59@...]
        >Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:36 PM
        >To: sct-user@egroups.com
        >Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser
        >
        >I don't have a laser collimator, so I don't have to defend it for
        >reasons of pride, etc. Nor do I have 1st-hand experience with these
        >things. But, anyway, I think the atrtraction of the LC is the ability
        >to collimate accurately, quickly, and in any weather conditions, day or
        >night - once the initial setup is done.
        >
        >Comments?
        >
        > > obtuse, but is this procedure supposed to be easier and more accurate
        > > than a high-power star collimation?
        > > Do people who complain about the difficulty of star collimation actually
        > > think this laser procedure is easier?!
        >
        >--
        >Best regards,
        >Chuck Hancock
        >
        >c d h 5 9 at b e l l s o u t h d o t n e t
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >Visit the sct-user home page at:
        >
        >http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >FREE Shipping and a 30 Day Money-Back Guarantee at
        >screaminghotdeals.com
        >http://click.egroups.com/1/2714/4/_/3843/_/954621356/
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >
        >http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >-- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/sct-user/?m=1
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        >

        ______________________________________________________

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      • Chuck Hancock
        Jimmy- What do you mean? Doesn t SBIG make an AO and an autoguider? Talk to Kendrick if you want a cloud remover (20 megawatt laser cannon). ;i ... Best
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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          Jimmy-

          What do you mean? Doesn't SBIG make an AO and an autoguider?

          Talk to Kendrick if you want a cloud remover (20 megawatt laser cannon).
          ;i

          > Now if only Santa Barbara could do for me what Jim Kendrick has done.


          Best regards,
          Chuck Hancock

          c d h 5 9 at b e l l s o u t h d o t n e t
        • smorgan@smml.net
          All, Below is another message from Jim Kendrick answering some questions I ve posed. I hope it helps! Scott ... -- ... outlined ... to ... string, ... Correct
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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            All,

            Below is another message from Jim Kendrick answering some questions I've
            posed. I hope it helps!

            Scott

            --------------------


            --


            > From: smorgan@...
            > Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:44:39 -0500
            > To: Jim Kendrick <jim@...>
            > Subject: Re: laser collimator
            >
            >
            > Jim,
            >
            > A few more questions if you don't mind....
            >
            > - This is my new understanding of the close focus procedure you've
            outlined
            > in the instructions and the info you provided today....let me know if I'm
            > wrong:
            >
            > 1) Set up my Ultima (8") at 25'.
            > 2) Hang the collimator on the back of the scope to provide the proper
            > weighting to reduce flexure. When you say hang, I assume you don't mean
            to
            > thread it onto the back of the SCT, but just hang it via a wire or
            string,
            > correct?

            Correct

            > 3) Center _and_ focus the target in the eyepiece.
            > 4) Remove the eyepiece and visual back and thread the collimator onto the
            > back of the SCT where the visual back was attached.
            > 5) Adjust the focus knob until it stops. This is the close focus point.
            > Then adjust 1 turn clockwise.

            Well, almost. Close focus will be determined when you have focused the
            target in the eyepiece. When you place the laser in to the SCT adapter,
            your
            focal point changes due to the different placement along the optical path
            (slightly closer than your eyepiece). Hence the need to adjust the focuser
            one turn clockwise.

            > 6) Again, adjust the focus knob until the halo starts to tighten. Should
            > I stop at this point or try to get it as tight as possible?

            You will know when you have achieved the best focus when the sides f the
            dime sized ball of light are clean.

            > 7) Center the halo on the target by adjusting the collimation screws on
            > the secondary.
            >
            > Is this correct or am I totally off?

            This is correct with my amendments.

            >
            > - I'm confused on the "seesaw" method. Do you mean that if the target is
            > no longer centered after collimation (and I agree, it should not be since
            > you've moved the secondary to collimate), that you should slightly adjust
            > the scope so that the target is closer to centered, but not quite and,
            > then, repeat the laser collimation? And that this procedure should be
            > repeated until the difference of the centered eyepiece target and the
            > centered laser target is minimal?

            Yes, I believe you and I are talking the same thing here. But I would start
            right at the beginning. If you notice that the halo is off by .5" at the
            target, put the eyepiece back in and and move the center of the target out
            of the center of your eyepiece by what would correspond to .250" at the
            target. Put the laser in and adjust for half the difference to the center
            of
            the target. Keep on doing this until either you have reached center of the
            target or until you have reached a point of equilibrium (which may not be
            dead center). Then you will be collimated as the best you can get for your
            system.
            I hope this is clear. If you have further questions please do not hesitate
            to ask. No question is a stupid question.

            >
            > Jim, I really appreciate your time and patience in answering my
            questions.
            >
            > Scott

            No problem, That is why I am in business.
            Jim
          • vern&anita
            ... From: Bill Brady To: SCT Users Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 1:12 PM Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW:
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Bill Brady" <wmbrady@...>
              To: "SCT Users" <sct-user@egroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 1:12 PM
              Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser


              Unfortunately, with the C-9.25 the target must be at least 60 feet out.
              Since I don't have a 60' building handy, I must do it outside. I cannot
              see the ball of light except for a few minutes at dusk.

              There must be a better way.

              Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
              will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


              Bill,
              Maybe the local High schoo.l will let you use their basketball court. Too
              bad you do not live near me my dealerships service dept. would be perfect.

              Fight the light
              Vern


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            • Doug LePage
              I live in a single-family residential neighborhood and place my target 150 from the scope. I just shoot down the street to a vacant house where I set up my
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
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                I live in a single-family residential neighborhood and place my target 150'
                from the scope. I just shoot down the street to a vacant house where I set
                up my target. I have two 100' foot extension cords that I put together to
                run down to the light box (you may not be so fortunate) or you can also just
                shoot down the sidewalk etc.

                Doug LePage
                Miami, Fl.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: vern&anita [mailto:nitavern@...]
                Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 8:15 AM
                To: sct-user@egroups.com
                Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bill Brady" <wmbrady@...>
                To: "SCT Users" <sct-user@egroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 1:12 PM
                Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser


                Unfortunately, with the C-9.25 the target must be at least 60 feet out.
                Since I don't have a 60' building handy, I must do it outside. I cannot
                see the ball of light except for a few minutes at dusk.

                There must be a better way.

                Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


                Bill,
                Maybe the local High schoo.l will let you use their basketball court. Too
                bad you do not live near me my dealerships service dept. would be perfect.

                Fight the light
                Vern


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              • James A. Thibert
                Hi Chuck I hope my comment about Santa Barbara would not be taken out of context.To explain,SBIG has super products...period and I have some. But...have you
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
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                  Hi Chuck
                  I hope my comment about Santa Barbara would not be taken out of context.To
                  explain,SBIG has super products...period and I have some.
                  But...have you ever read one of their manuals?Why all the webb talk on
                  using an st-4 or for heavens sake,the fogging due to the cork washer
                  being dryed out.This product has been on the market for at least 8 years and
                  we are still using old manuals with addendums.
                  Again.SBIG responds to enquiries but rather than focus on my learning curve
                  with various suppliers,my suggestion is for those suppliers to
                  look at what a site like sct-users is doing for the amateur and the
                  manufacturer.Let's face it,at the level of product we are talking about
                  there are very few suppliers.There is limited market and ergo
                  the reason we discuss they or their products so often.True there is high
                  quality,innovation and reliabilty but don't those seem to be the same
                  attributes inheirant with serious amateur atronomers? From what I've read,I
                  draw the conclusion that we are all seeking the best we can get from our
                  equipment and when there is a problem we seek a solution.Some people out
                  there have the skills and imagination to devise effective solutions and some
                  then share them with us.For those corporations however I would hope that
                  while they do the same,that
                  part of the solution they present should be at the same level of
                  service,instruction or tech support that they present in designing and
                  marketing these products.
                  Many of us are at great viweing sites and nowhere near a city with a
                  qualitity scope dealer let alone a manufacturer of such specialized
                  products.Each time I call one,its long distance to Californis and most times
                  when they return the call,its with not considering the 3 hour time change.
                  In these days should we not expect an instructional video or an accomodating
                  webbsite that has proper expert instruction than just a repeat of their
                  paper copy manuals?Surely if someone can show you a different way to catch a
                  bass on tv every week then there are means to
                  create a proper tutorial on what are extremely unique and exacting products.
                  I mean these as positive suggestions not specifically directed at anyone or
                  company.I have some great (and expensive) equipment that performs every bit
                  as well as advertised...once one figures how to get them working or how to
                  sort the bugs out.

                  I cannot commend Rod Mollise enough for putting sct-users together...it is
                  just the forum necessary to provide peer support and perhaps the industry
                  will be innovative and imaginative enough to subscibe,listen and respond to
                  our needs more effectively.

                  Sorry for the sermon but it is Sunday after all.

                  thanks and I hope you always have good seeing

                  jimmy t

                  >From: Chuck Hancock <cdh59@...>
                  >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
                  >To: sct-user@egroups.com
                  >Subject: [sct-user] Re: FW: CLARIFICATION on Kendrick laser
                  >Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 21:24:30 -0500
                  >
                  >Jimmy-
                  >
                  >What do you mean? Doesn't SBIG make an AO and an autoguider?
                  >
                  >Talk to Kendrick if you want a cloud remover (20 megawatt laser cannon).
                  >;i
                  >
                  > > Now if only Santa Barbara could do for me what Jim Kendrick has done.
                  >
                  >
                  >Best regards,
                  >Chuck Hancock
                  >
                  >c d h 5 9 at b e l l s o u t h d o t n e t
                  >
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                  ______________________________________________________
                • Bill Brady
                  ... Thanks for the interest Vern. Actually, I think I am OK, as I can get my beam to return on itself and that appears pretty darned close. At least it appears
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
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                    vern&anita Wrote:

                    >Bill,
                    >Maybe the local High schoo.l will let you use their basketball court. Too
                    >bad you do not live near me my dealerships service dept. would be perfect.

                    Thanks for the interest Vern. Actually, I think I am OK, as I can get my
                    beam to return on itself and that appears pretty darned close. At least
                    it appears to be the best it can with my atmospherics lately.

                    I am just wondering, however, if there is a better way to use this tool.
                    Methinks I need to put more effort into making an artificial star.

                    Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                    will go away as soon as I plant my garden!
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