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[sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

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  • Jim Firth
    Scott- I ve had a U2K for a couple of years now, and I ve had some of the same questions you asked. I wondered about the quality of the optics until one night
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Scott-

      I've had a U2K for a couple of years now, and I've had some of the same
      questions you asked. I wondered about the quality of the optics until one
      night when the seeing was really excellent. That night I could clearly make
      out several of the rings of Saturn with the Cassini division very clear.
      Clouds on the disk were also readily apparent. Jupiter showed about 6 cloud
      bands and there were numerous festoons as well as the great red spot. This
      was unlike any view I had ever had before, or since. I don't know about your
      optics, but mine are almost always limited by atmospheric conditions.

      I bought a Kendrick collimator thinking it would make the collimation easier
      and better. I have yet to have this be the case. I've been trying off and on
      for about 6 months and have made many calls to Jim Kendrick. Each time he's
      had a new theory as to why the Collimator is making the collimation worse. I
      suggest you give him a call. In my last call he suggested that I try to
      align the laser midway between the center of the target and the spot it
      falls when initially mounting it. I haven't had a chance to try this yet,
      but I have my doubts. I suspect part of the problem comes from the star
      diagonal not being exactly at a right angle to the optical axis. If I had a
      1 1/4" to 2" adapter I could use the eyepiece directly in the mounting tube
      for the collimator. Without this I have to use the star diagonal.

      Good luck.

      Jim Firth
    • James A. Thibert
      hello to another jim... One thing that is likely to be in the new Kendrick instructions is the point Jim K. mentioned earlier on this thread.That is to be very
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        hello to another jim...
        One thing that is likely to be in the new Kendrick instructions is the point
        Jim K. mentioned earlier on this thread.That is to be very aware of flexture
        caused by the difference between the weight of the laser cell and the
        reticule eyepiece you are using.Since a laser emits a perfectly straight
        line and flexture from the backend of an sct will be reflected back at 5
        times the magnification,ANY FLEXTURE
        will throw off your registration.I have accomodated for this by hanging a
        small cloth sack from the end of the laser tube.When the eyepiece is in the
        tube,the laser is in the sack.When the laser is in the tube,the ep is in the
        sack.Voila,flexture neutralized!You just have to remember that when using
        the laser in field later to hang he ep on the end
        I hope this makes a difference in your registration
        good luck....jim t
        >From: "Jim Firth" <firth@...>
        >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
        >To: <sct-user@...>
        >Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
        >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:28:37 -0800
        >
        >Scott-
        >
        >I've had a U2K for a couple of years now, and I've had some of the same
        >questions you asked. I wondered about the quality of the optics until one
        >night when the seeing was really excellent. That night I could clearly make
        >out several of the rings of Saturn with the Cassini division very clear.
        >Clouds on the disk were also readily apparent. Jupiter showed about 6 cloud
        >bands and there were numerous festoons as well as the great red spot. This
        >was unlike any view I had ever had before, or since. I don't know about
        >your
        >optics, but mine are almost always limited by atmospheric conditions.
        >
        >I bought a Kendrick collimator thinking it would make the collimation
        >easier
        >and better. I have yet to have this be the case. I've been trying off and
        >on
        >for about 6 months and have made many calls to Jim Kendrick. Each time he's
        >had a new theory as to why the Collimator is making the collimation worse.
        >I
        >suggest you give him a call. In my last call he suggested that I try to
        >align the laser midway between the center of the target and the spot it
        >falls when initially mounting it. I haven't had a chance to try this yet,
        >but I have my doubts. I suspect part of the problem comes from the star
        >diagonal not being exactly at a right angle to the optical axis. If I had a
        >1 1/4" to 2" adapter I could use the eyepiece directly in the mounting tube
        >for the collimator. Without this I have to use the star diagonal.
        >
        >Good luck.
        >
        >Jim Firth
        >
        >
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      • smorgan@smml.net
        Hi Jim, I m kinda confused here. Are you saying you have the laser removed from the laser tube, attached to the SCT, and an eyepiece installed within the
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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          Hi Jim,

          I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying you have the laser removed from
          the laser tube, attached to the SCT, and an eyepiece installed within the
          tube? If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
          where the plastic setscrew is?

          Thanks,

          Scott



          "James A.
          Thibert" To: sct-user@egroups.com
          <thibertj@hot cc:
          mail.com> Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

          04/01/00
          08:11 PM
          Please
          respond to
          sct-user





          hello to another jim...
          One thing that is likely to be in the new Kendrick instructions is the
          point
          Jim K. mentioned earlier on this thread.That is to be very aware of
          flexture
          caused by the difference between the weight of the laser cell and the
          reticule eyepiece you are using.Since a laser emits a perfectly straight
          line and flexture from the backend of an sct will be reflected back at 5
          times the magnification,ANY FLEXTURE
          will throw off your registration.I have accomodated for this by hanging a
          small cloth sack from the end of the laser tube.When the eyepiece is in the

          tube,the laser is in the sack.When the laser is in the tube,the ep is in
          the
          sack.Voila,flexture neutralized!You just have to remember that when using
          the laser in field later to hang he ep on the end
          I hope this makes a difference in your registration
          good luck....jim t
          >From: "Jim Firth" <firth@...>
          >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
          >To: <sct-user@...>
          >Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
          >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:28:37 -0800
          >
          >Scott-
          >
          >I've had a U2K for a couple of years now, and I've had some of the same
          >questions you asked. I wondered about the quality of the optics until one
          >night when the seeing was really excellent. That night I could clearly
          make
          >out several of the rings of Saturn with the Cassini division very clear.
          >Clouds on the disk were also readily apparent. Jupiter showed about 6
          cloud
          >bands and there were numerous festoons as well as the great red spot. This
          >was unlike any view I had ever had before, or since. I don't know about
          >your
          >optics, but mine are almost always limited by atmospheric conditions.
          >
          >I bought a Kendrick collimator thinking it would make the collimation
          >easier
          >and better. I have yet to have this be the case. I've been trying off and
          >on
          >for about 6 months and have made many calls to Jim Kendrick. Each time
          he's
          >had a new theory as to why the Collimator is making the collimation worse.

          >I
          >suggest you give him a call. In my last call he suggested that I try to
          >align the laser midway between the center of the target and the spot it
          >falls when initially mounting it. I haven't had a chance to try this yet,
          >but I have my doubts. I suspect part of the problem comes from the star
          >diagonal not being exactly at a right angle to the optical axis. If I had
          a
          >1 1/4" to 2" adapter I could use the eyepiece directly in the mounting
          tube
          >for the collimator. Without this I have to use the star diagonal.
          >
          >Good luck.
          >
          >Jim Firth
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >Visit the sct-user home page at:
          >
          >http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
          >
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          >

          ______________________________________________________

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        • Doug LePage
          That is correct, that way there is no diagonal to throw the results off and it speeds the whole process up some. Doug LePage Miami, Fl. ... From:
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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            That is correct, that way there is no diagonal to throw the results off and
            it speeds the whole process up some.

            Doug LePage
            Miami, Fl.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: smorgan@... [mailto:smorgan@...]
            Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:24 PM
            To: sct-user@egroups.com
            Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


            Hi Jim,

            I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying you have the laser removed from
            the laser tube, attached to the SCT, and an eyepiece installed within the
            tube? If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
            where the plastic setscrew is?

            Thanks,

            Scott



            "James A.
            Thibert" To: sct-user@egroups.com
            <thibertj@hot cc:
            mail.com> Subject: [sct-user] Re:
            collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

            04/01/00
            08:11 PM
            Please
            respond to
            sct-user





            hello to another jim...
            One thing that is likely to be in the new Kendrick instructions is the
            point
            Jim K. mentioned earlier on this thread.That is to be very aware of
            flexture
            caused by the difference between the weight of the laser cell and the
            reticule eyepiece you are using.Since a laser emits a perfectly straight
            line and flexture from the backend of an sct will be reflected back at 5
            times the magnification,ANY FLEXTURE
            will throw off your registration.I have accomodated for this by hanging a
            small cloth sack from the end of the laser tube.When the eyepiece is in the

            tube,the laser is in the sack.When the laser is in the tube,the ep is in
            the
            sack.Voila,flexture neutralized!You just have to remember that when using
            the laser in field later to hang he ep on the end
            I hope this makes a difference in your registration
            good luck....jim t
            >From: "Jim Firth" <firth@...>
            >Reply-To: sct-user@egroups.com
            >To: <sct-user@...>
            >Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
            >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:28:37 -0800
            >
            >Scott-
            >
            >I've had a U2K for a couple of years now, and I've had some of the same
            >questions you asked. I wondered about the quality of the optics until one
            >night when the seeing was really excellent. That night I could clearly
            make
            >out several of the rings of Saturn with the Cassini division very clear.
            >Clouds on the disk were also readily apparent. Jupiter showed about 6
            cloud
            >bands and there were numerous festoons as well as the great red spot. This
            >was unlike any view I had ever had before, or since. I don't know about
            >your
            >optics, but mine are almost always limited by atmospheric conditions.
            >
            >I bought a Kendrick collimator thinking it would make the collimation
            >easier
            >and better. I have yet to have this be the case. I've been trying off and
            >on
            >for about 6 months and have made many calls to Jim Kendrick. Each time
            he's
            >had a new theory as to why the Collimator is making the collimation worse.

            >I
            >suggest you give him a call. In my last call he suggested that I try to
            >align the laser midway between the center of the target and the spot it
            >falls when initially mounting it. I haven't had a chance to try this yet,
            >but I have my doubts. I suspect part of the problem comes from the star
            >diagonal not being exactly at a right angle to the optical axis. If I had
            a
            >1 1/4" to 2" adapter I could use the eyepiece directly in the mounting
            tube
            >for the collimator. Without this I have to use the star diagonal.
            >
            >Good luck.
            >
            >Jim Firth
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >Visit the sct-user home page at:
            >
            >http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
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            >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
            >
            >

            ______________________________________________________

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          • Bill Brady
            ... Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight extension tube effect when you insert the laser. Wm. Bill Brady, Harwood MD
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 1, 2000
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              smorgan@... Wrote:

              >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
              >where the plastic setscrew is?

              Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
              "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

              Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
              will go away as soon as I plant my garden!
            • Doug LePage
              Don t forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2 adapter. Doug LePage Miami, Fl. ... From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@olg.com] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM To: SCT
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Don't forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2" adapter.

                Doug LePage
                Miami, Fl.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@...]
                Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM
                To: SCT Users
                Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

                smorgan@... Wrote:

                >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                >where the plastic setscrew is?

                Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
                "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

                Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


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              • smorgan@smml.net
                Doug, Assuming I have no 2 eyepieces and have the standard visual back that comes with the U2K, could you describe the order in which these items are
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Doug,

                  Assuming I have no 2" eyepieces and have the standard visual back that
                  comes with the U2K, could you describe the order in which these items are
                  attached, starting with the threads on the back of the SCT, both with and
                  without the laser? That might clear things up for me.

                  Thanks,

                  Scott



                  "Doug LePage"
                  <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                  et> cc:
                  Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                  04/02/00
                  09:17 AM
                  Please
                  respond to
                  sct-user





                  Don't forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2" adapter.

                  Doug LePage
                  Miami, Fl.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM
                  To: SCT Users
                  Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

                  smorgan@... Wrote:

                  >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                  >where the plastic setscrew is?

                  Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
                  "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

                  Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                  will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


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                • Doug LePage
                  Scott, Attach the collimator housing to the threads of the visual back. Place a 2 to 11/4 adapter in the open end of the laser housing (I know you don t have
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Scott,
                    Attach the collimator housing to the threads of the visual back. Place a 2"
                    to 11/4" adapter in the open end of the laser housing (I know you don't have
                    a 2" reticle EP do you?) then place an your EP in the adapter and tighten it
                    down. You will then center the target (or artificial star) in the cross
                    hairs of the eye piece, after this, being careful not to move the scope you
                    take out the ep and adapter and slip the laser back in the housing, tighten
                    it down then turn it on........is this what you wanted to know?

                    Doug LePage
                    Miami, Fl.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: smorgan@... [mailto:smorgan@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:07 AM
                    To: sct-user@egroups.com
                    Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


                    Doug,

                    Assuming I have no 2" eyepieces and have the standard visual back that
                    comes with the U2K, could you describe the order in which these items are
                    attached, starting with the threads on the back of the SCT, both with and
                    without the laser? That might clear things up for me.

                    Thanks,

                    Scott



                    "Doug LePage"
                    <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                    et> cc:
                    Subject: [sct-user] Re:
                    collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                    04/02/00
                    09:17 AM
                    Please
                    respond to
                    sct-user





                    Don't forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2" adapter.

                    Doug LePage
                    Miami, Fl.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM
                    To: SCT Users
                    Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

                    smorgan@... Wrote:

                    >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                    >where the plastic setscrew is?

                    Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
                    "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

                    Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                    will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


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                  • Doug LePage
                    I was too, but it is the perfect way to leave the diagonal out of the equation and eliminate that as a possible cause for any errors. Doug LePage Miami, Fl.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I was too, but it is the perfect way to leave the diagonal out of the
                      equation and eliminate that as a possible cause for any errors.

                      Doug LePage
                      Miami, Fl.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: smorgan@... [mailto:smorgan@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:29 AM
                      To: sct-user@egroups.com
                      Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


                      That's exactly what I wanted to know. I'm suprised the image will focus
                      with the eyepiece so far away from the back of the SCT.

                      Thanks, again!

                      Scott




                      "Doug LePage"
                      <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                      et> cc:
                      Subject: [sct-user] Re:
                      collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                      04/02/00
                      10:16 AM
                      Please
                      respond to
                      sct-user





                      Scott,
                      Attach the collimator housing to the threads of the visual back. Place a 2"
                      to 11/4" adapter in the open end of the laser housing (I know you don't
                      have
                      a 2" reticle EP do you?) then place an your EP in the adapter and tighten
                      it
                      down. You will then center the target (or artificial star) in the cross
                      hairs of the eye piece, after this, being careful not to move the scope you
                      take out the ep and adapter and slip the laser back in the housing, tighten
                      it down then turn it on........is this what you wanted to know?

                      Doug LePage
                      Miami, Fl.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: smorgan@... [mailto:smorgan@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:07 AM
                      To: sct-user@egroups.com
                      Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


                      Doug,

                      Assuming I have no 2" eyepieces and have the standard visual back that
                      comes with the U2K, could you describe the order in which these items are
                      attached, starting with the threads on the back of the SCT, both with and
                      without the laser? That might clear things up for me.

                      Thanks,

                      Scott



                      "Doug LePage"
                      <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                      et> cc:
                      Subject: [sct-user] Re:
                      collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                      04/02/00
                      09:17 AM
                      Please
                      respond to
                      sct-user





                      Don't forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2" adapter.

                      Doug LePage
                      Miami, Fl.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM
                      To: SCT Users
                      Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

                      smorgan@... Wrote:

                      >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                      >where the plastic setscrew is?

                      Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
                      "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

                      Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                      will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Visit the sct-user home page at:



                      http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index4.html

                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    • smorgan@smml.net
                      That s exactly what I wanted to know. I m suprised the image will focus with the eyepiece so far away from the back of the SCT. Thanks, again! Scott Doug
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        That's exactly what I wanted to know. I'm suprised the image will focus
                        with the eyepiece so far away from the back of the SCT.

                        Thanks, again!

                        Scott




                        "Doug LePage"
                        <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                        et> cc:
                        Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                        04/02/00
                        10:16 AM
                        Please
                        respond to
                        sct-user





                        Scott,
                        Attach the collimator housing to the threads of the visual back. Place a 2"
                        to 11/4" adapter in the open end of the laser housing (I know you don't
                        have
                        a 2" reticle EP do you?) then place an your EP in the adapter and tighten
                        it
                        down. You will then center the target (or artificial star) in the cross
                        hairs of the eye piece, after this, being careful not to move the scope you
                        take out the ep and adapter and slip the laser back in the housing, tighten
                        it down then turn it on........is this what you wanted to know?

                        Doug LePage
                        Miami, Fl.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: smorgan@... [mailto:smorgan@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:07 AM
                        To: sct-user@egroups.com
                        Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


                        Doug,

                        Assuming I have no 2" eyepieces and have the standard visual back that
                        comes with the U2K, could you describe the order in which these items are
                        attached, starting with the threads on the back of the SCT, both with and
                        without the laser? That might clear things up for me.

                        Thanks,

                        Scott



                        "Doug LePage"
                        <xuxek@apcn.n To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                        et> cc:
                        Subject: [sct-user] Re:
                        collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser
                        04/02/00
                        09:17 AM
                        Please
                        respond to
                        sct-user





                        Don't forget you need a 1 1/4 to 2" adapter.

                        Doug LePage
                        Miami, Fl.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Bill Brady [mailto:wmbrady@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:06 AM
                        To: SCT Users
                        Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser

                        smorgan@... Wrote:

                        >If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                        >where the plastic setscrew is?

                        Yes, but you have to make one turn clockwise to compensate for a slight
                        "extension tube" effect when you insert the laser.

                        Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                        will go away as soon as I plant my garden!


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                      • Jim Firth
                        We ve got a lot of Jims involved in this thread! At one point Jim Kendrick suggested that a 2 to 1 1/4 inch adapter such as you might use with a 2 diagonal
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          We've got a lot of Jims involved in this thread!
                          At one point Jim Kendrick suggested that a 2" to 1 1/4" inch adapter such as
                          you might use with a 2" diagonal that allows the system to use 1 1/4"
                          eyepieces could be screwed directly into the back of the laser collimator
                          mounting tube (the tube that mounts onto the threaded back of the sct, and
                          into which the laser slides). In this way your eyepiece will be in the exact
                          same optical axis as the collimator. No star diagonal in the picture.

                          The reason I suspect that my diagonal is not orthogonal is that if I center
                          on an object (a star, the target) and then rotate the diagonal 90 degrees
                          left or right, the object does not stay centered.

                          Good luck.

                          Jim Firth


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <smorgan@...>
                          To: <sct-user@egroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 8:23 PM
                          Subject: [sct-user] Re: collimation/bad optics/Kendrick laser


                          >
                          > Hi Jim,
                          >
                          > I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying you have the laser removed from
                          > the laser tube, attached to the SCT, and an eyepiece installed within the
                          > tube? If so, where is the eyepiece mounted, at the very end of the tube
                          > where the plastic setscrew is?
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Scott
                        • Bill Brady
                          ... Say guys, I was too stupid to know that the laser unit comes out of the tube. Kendricks had to tell me. Wm. Bill Brady, Harwood MD 76°40 W 38°51 N -
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 2, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Doug LePage Wrote:

                            >Attach the collimator housing to the threads of the visual back. Place a 2"
                            >to 11/4" adapter in the open end of the laser housing

                            Say guys, I was too stupid to know that the laser unit comes out of the
                            tube. Kendricks had to tell me.

                            Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD 76°40'W 38°51'N - I've got it! the clouds
                            will go away as soon as I plant my garden!
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