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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Digest Number 1148

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  • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
    David: Here, I think, shows the difference places we are practicing Scrum and Agile. You wrote: It s the Users system, and we ll do whatever they want to it.
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 5, 2005
      Here, I think, shows the difference places we are practicing Scrum and Agile.
      You wrote:
      It's the Users' system, and we'll do whatever they want to it.  No fights.  The developers continue to be proud of their accomplishments, and do their best to make the systems the best they can,
      but we are in a different place and within the world we work in our final clause would be;
      given what the user takes the time to help us understand what they want.
      This is why the User (aka Product Owner in this case) is an integral part of our team because we have committed NOT to make business decisions and NOT to develop functions the business owner doesn't agree with HOW (logically) we are going to do it.
      I suspect that many of the rants on product owner as a member of the team float around the role you assign them and here are two radically different approaches that, in all likelihood, reflect what is possible in the respective culture. 
      If you feel like moving in this direction a couple of interesting things may happen.  Productivity and quality take another leap up as your team only works on a task to the degree it can be successful.  If the product owner can agree then everyone plans how to get to that agreement,  if the product owner can't define what they want well enough to plan how they want to get there, then you work with them to define the scope and boundary.
      Prioritization has three levels,  How the Product Owner ranks it,  How they order it given the amount of time available, and whether they show up or not when needed.  No show, priority drops to 0 task moves off the sprint backlog and the team asks for something else to work on.
      The Product Owner 'owns' the product - a novel concept, all your team is the implementors of their vision.
      Sounds scary, not really, as most of the hand waving, sky is falling, we're gonna die stops as people reveal through their actions themselves and their intentions.
      Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another. ~Walter Elliott, The Spiritual Life

      The greatest oak was once a little nut who held its ground. ~Author Unknown
      -------------- Original message --------------

      > >I don't think you are far off, and that we are about to become
      > >violent in our agreement, but are separated by a
      > >common misuse of the language.
      > Hmmm. I don't think you are far off either. :) I sense a little
      > metaphorical nose tweaking sneaking into our posts.
      > I think that the things that you've been saying make good (common) sense,
      > and follow naturally from the underlying philosophy of Agile. As a
      > discussion about Scrum, however, I insist on being a little pedantic on
      > those points simply because it helps (I think) to understand what makes
      > Scrum work. So I'll offer the following as a strict interpretation of some
      > of those issue with regards to Scrum:
      > Product Owner - The role that has the sole responsibility to set the
      > priorities of the Backlog Items.
      > The Team - The people that have a shared commitment to complete the tasks
      > detailed in the Sprint Backlog.
      > Us/Them - Not a negative thing at all. Simply a recognition of the fact
      > that the Team is being held to higher standard with regard to their
      > commitment to complete the Sprint Backlog; that they need to be shielded
      > from the background noise in the organization; and that "They" are
      > responsible for business decisions and need to be happy at the end of
      > process.
      > As to the team sneaking in business decisions: Our experience has been
      > that the progammers are making less and less business decisions as we
      > continue to use Scrum. Why? Because the Team no longer cares what the
      > business decisions are. In the old days, they were responsible for
      > completing a project over a long period of time to a set of Requirements
      > that were largely obsolete by the end of the project. Programmers were
      > constantly pushing the business decisions along lines that meant less
      > programming time was required, because of the time pressure created by the
      > need to fit in "extra" things that were discovered after the ReqSpecs were
      > signed. Now they don't care: "You want something really big added? No
      > problem, it'll take X number of days. What are you willing to go without
      > in order to get it done?". Note that none of this is actually spoken out
      > loud, it is implied in the PB prioritization process. It's not a
      > confrontation, and we NEVER argue with the users about what the system
      > should look like.
      > I've obliquely commented on this in the past. To my mind this is one of
      > the biggest advantages to Scrum. The programmers lose the sense of
      > ownership over the system. It's the Users' system, and we'll do whatever
      > they want to it. No fights. The developers continue to be proud of their
      > accomplishments, and do their best to make the systems the best they can,
      > they just don't feel like it's "their" system.
      > Dave Barrett,
      > Lawyers' Professional Indemnity Company
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