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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Certified ScrumMaster

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  • Mike Cohn
    More definition around Scrum could certainly be useful to many people. Right now I d consider Scrum to be firmly between XP and Crystal in that sense. XP is
    Message 1 of 113 , Mar 2, 2003
      More definition around Scrum could certainly be useful to many people. Right
      now I'd consider Scrum to be firmly between XP and Crystal in that sense. XP
      is nice because one can read one of many books and know (in some limited
      sense) "what to do." Many people express interest about Crystal but don't
      know where to go with that interest. Moving Scrum toward the XP limit would
      probably be useful for many teams but I say that with two caveats:
      a) I think it needs to stop far short of ETVX definitions
      b) it still needs to be implementable in a day.

      --Mike

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:11 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Certified ScrumMaster

      I also think tests, particularly multiple choice are terrible. And smart
      people can handle essays even as well.

      I had several thoughts in mind:
      1. Provide several days where people who really know Scrum get together with
      people who are learning it and impart as much of the reality of Scrum as
      possible through an extended workshop (course with a lot of examples and
      discussion).
      2. Assessing someone's performance as ScrumMaster during a real sprint
      planning meeting and several daily scrums. Seeing if they get the feel and
      purpose of Scrum.
      3. Providing them with a methodology to use and update, with the activities
      and responsibilities of the product owner, ScrumMaster, and team more
      proscribed.
      Ken

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Linda Rising [mailto:risingl@...]
      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:12 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Certified ScrumMaster


      I agree -- it should not be a "satisfy these ten things" kind of
      certification.

      For instance, the most common problem I see is that Scrum meetings are going
      "by the book" -- asking the three questions -- but it's really a status
      meeting
      with another name. There's no life, no interaction, no real communication
      going on. At one company recently, I sat in on some half-dozen Scrum
      meetings
      and, as the Scrum coach, I said the same things over and over. By the
      end of the
      morning, I think everyone realized what they needed to do.



      David J. Anderson wrote:

      >Hi,
      >
      >I think it is worth keeping Ken's end-game in mind
      >here. He doesn't want Scrum atrophying in the public
      >mind because of poor quality implementations which
      >went by Scrum in name but not in nature.
      >
      >This is a common problem - replication of process is
      >hard - even Rational struggled to scale RUP. I've
      >encountered several Rational consultants who weren't
      >any good at implementing RUP. In one extreme case, 3
      >of them took three months and managed to install Clear
      >Case - but got no further!
      >
      >The same would be true of CMM.
      >
      >Jeff De Luca talks a lot about repeatability. What he
      >means is prescription and proscription which is simple
      >to read and understand and then implement.
      >
      >RUP ought to be repeatable but it isn't very. I've put
      >a lot of thought into this and I feel that there are
      >two issues (i) It's too heavyweight - too much to
      >learn - high barrier to entry (ii) the fundamental
      >unit of RUP - the Use Case - is too loose in its
      >definition.
      >
      >Scrum on the other hand has a very low barrier to
      >entry. IMO it has the lowest barrier to entry that I
      >have seen. However, Scrum's deliberate hands-off, let
      >the internals self-organize means that it isn't
      >particularly presecriptive or proscriptive and hence,
      >at the "doer" level it isn't very repeatable.
      >
      >I, myself, found that I learned a lot more from a day
      >with Ken and Mike at OOPSLA than from reading the
      >book.
      >
      >My feeling about the looser - more self-organized -
      >agile methods is that they are more like craft. Crafts
      >require apprenticeships. I know that this is hard to
      >scale but I do not believe that you can set an exam in
      >Scrum. I believe that you need to become a time-served
      >Scrum Master and that means an apprenticeship.
      >
      >Best regards,
      >David
      >--
      >David J. Anderson
      >http://www.uidesign.net/
      >Agile Interface Design
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >--- Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
      >
      >You've hit the heart of the matter, of course. Why did
      >a similar effort fail
      >for CMM, and why would it work for Scrum and XP?
      >I have some research to do into the CMM problem. Do
      >you or anyone have
      >suggestions on what we could do to make our
      >certification - if we do it -
      >work?
      >Ken
      >
      >
      >
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    • Mike Beedle
      Ron: Sorry for the pun intended, the proper name is burndown chart as Mike stated, not burnout chart , but that all depends how you feel as you come down
      Message 113 of 113 , Mar 10, 2003
        Ron:

        Sorry for the pun intended, the proper name is
        "burndown chart" as Mike stated, not "burnout chart",
        but that all depends how you feel as you come down
        from the "mountain of hours and features" ;-)

        - Mike

        --- Mike Cohn <mike@...> wrote:

        ---------------------------------
        Ron--
        I think Mike is referring to a "burndown" rather than
        "burnout" chart.
        Although I'd like to try graphing how burnt out I feel
        at the end of each
        day.
        An example burndown chart is
        http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/scrum/sprintbacklog.html.
        Scroll down a
        bit and you'll see it bordered in the green.

        -Mike

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
        Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:10 PM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: Design (was) RE: [scrumdevelopment]
        Certified ScrumMaster

        On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 5:03:18 PM, Mike Beedle
        wrote:

        > - Ensuring that a burnout chart is produced every
        > day -- don't fly blind it can be dangerous to your
        > project's health.

        What's a burnout chart?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        How do I sell my executive team on doing this stuff?
        -- Questioner
        Don't. Just do it. They don't know what you're doing
        anyway. -- Jim
        Highsmith


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