Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Interaction designers and Scrum

Expand Messages
  • A Dillon
    Keith, As a former UI Designer and a current ScrumMaster, thank you so much for asking this question (you think QA folk feel left out sometimes )...I
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1, 2005
      Keith,
      As a former UI Designer and a current ScrumMaster, thank you so much
      for asking this question (you think QA folk feel left out sometimes
      <grin>)...I would recommend that you hang out for a bit on the
      Agile-Usability Yahoo newsgroup which wrestles with this issue daily.
      The moderator, Jeff Patton, is an excellent resource in this area.
      Good luck!
      Ann



      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Keith Lancaster
      <klancaster1957@y...> wrote:
      > All,
      > Customer / product owner interaction with developers
      > is central to most agile methods. When it comes to
      > user interfaces, however, I have not seen this method
      > work well...in fact, the instances I can think of have
      > been a disaster from a usability standpoint. I am
      > working on a large scale project, using RUP as the
      > process, but incorporating some agile practices. In
      > particular, the UI is designed in work sessions with
      > the (effectively) product owner, the business analyst,
      > and the a UI developer. After reviewing their work, it
      > was obvious that they had automated a process that had
      > steps that were only there because the process had
      > been paper based. The result was a UI / interaction
      > model that was non-sensical and needlessly complex. I
      > have seen blurbs here and there about people
      > attempting to combine agile techniques with Cooper's
      > goal driven design principles. Has anyone on this
      > group attempted this in the context of Scrum? In
      > particular, it seems that it might be possible to put
      > Cooper's interaction designer in the role of product
      > owner, essentially acting as an intermediary.
      > Thoughts?
      >
      > Keith Lancaster
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
    • Keith Lancaster
      Thanks for the advice - was not aware that this group existed! Keith ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 2005
        Thanks for the advice - was not aware that this group
        existed!

        Keith

        --- A Dillon <ann.dillon@...> wrote:

        > Keith,
        > As a former UI Designer and a current ScrumMaster,
        > thank you so much
        > for asking this question (you think QA folk feel
        > left out sometimes
        > <grin>)...I would recommend that you hang out for a
        > bit on the
        > Agile-Usability Yahoo newsgroup which wrestles with
        > this issue daily.
        > The moderator, Jeff Patton, is an excellent resource
        > in this area.
        > Good luck!
        > Ann
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Keith
        > Lancaster
        > <klancaster1957@y...> wrote:
        > > All,
        > > Customer / product owner interaction with
        > developers
        > > is central to most agile methods. When it comes to
        > > user interfaces, however, I have not seen this
        > method
        > > work well...in fact, the instances I can think of
        > have
        > > been a disaster from a usability standpoint. I am
        > > working on a large scale project, using RUP as the
        > > process, but incorporating some agile practices.
        > In
        > > particular, the UI is designed in work sessions
        > with
        > > the (effectively) product owner, the business
        > analyst,
        > > and the a UI developer. After reviewing their
        > work, it
        > > was obvious that they had automated a process that
        > had
        > > steps that were only there because the process had
        > > been paper based. The result was a UI /
        > interaction
        > > model that was non-sensical and needlessly
        > complex. I
        > > have seen blurbs here and there about people
        > > attempting to combine agile techniques with
        > Cooper's
        > > goal driven design principles. Has anyone on this
        > > group attempted this in the context of Scrum? In
        > > particular, it seems that it might be possible to
        > put
        > > Cooper's interaction designer in the role of
        > product
        > > owner, essentially acting as an intermediary.
        > > Thoughts?
        > >
        > > Keith Lancaster
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
        > protection around
        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Keith Lancaster
        Comments in line... ... Jeff, I m glad to see that you place a high emphasis on good UI design - I see little of that regardless of the process being used. ...
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 1, 2005
          Comments in line...

          --- Jeff Sutherland <jeff.sutherland@...>
          wrote:

          > In my paper on the Future of Scrum or Scrum II at
          > the Agile 2005 conference
          > last week, I mentioned the importance of the Product
          > Owner and the need to
          > prepare Product Backlog items properly before they
          > are turned into Sprint
          > Backlog. That preparation requires defining the user
          > experience and UI
          > design is a key component.
          >

          Jeff,
          I'm glad to see that you place a high emphasis on good
          UI design - I see little of that regardless of the
          process being used.

          > UI design is a Product Owner responsibility and the
          > Product Owner is best
          > assisted by a professional UI designer to create the
          > design. This design
          > flows as a product specification into a Sprint where
          > the Product Owner and
          > UI designer work with the team during the Sprint to
          > make sure it is
          > implemented properly.
          >

          Tightly coupling the product owner and interaction
          designer makes sense and sounds like it works for you.
          I must say that in my current environment, at least,
          the *right* thing to do would probably be to have the
          designer have the final say, because the product
          owners are so rooted in their old ways that they
          would overrule the designer when the designer pushed
          for greater usability. I know this sounds
          contradicatory, but this group of users is so
          accustomed to poorly structured UIs that they think
          its the norm. I quote from one of the developers who
          helped promote this thinking: "By the time they lose
          their data a couple of times, they won't hit that
          button any more".


          > As a caveat to this approach, the ivory tower UI
          > design approach is a bad
          > idea. They must work with the Scrum teams. At my
          > current company, the UI
          > design function reports to the Director of
          > Engineering who makes sure this
          > happens. At the same time, we have a strongly
          > product marketing driven shop
          > which makes sure that the Product Owner is joined at
          > the hip to the UI
          > designer. These checks and balances are critical to
          > avoid isolated power
          > centers that force suboptimization of product
          > delivery and undercut sales,
          > marketing, and uptake of product (a problem that is
          > often generated by
          > traditional UI design teams and documentation
          > professionals).
          >

          I agree. I was completely with Cooper until I got to
          the portion of the book where he insists that the
          design is completed up front and then handed over
          (although he seemed to soften this a bit in his
          conversation with Beck).

          > I view this as a key best business practice in an
          > Agile environment.

          Interesting, because many agile processes (XP as a
          primary example) seem to promote the idea that
          developers should work from absolute minimal
          specifications, and that anyone should be able to work
          on the UI that feels like it (I'm certain someone will
          correct me if I am wrong on this :-)). That would seem
          to preclude the up-front interaction design work that
          would be required. As I've mentioned in other posts, I
          have never found it to be the case that any team
          member is qualified to design a user interface (I'm
          not talking about the mechanics of design, of course,
          but the interaction model).



          In my
          > last iteration of this at PatientKeeper it has led
          > to a new webtop design
          > that is getting rave reviews and establishing
          > industry leadership, yet
          > another proof point.
          >
          > Jeff Sutherland
          > Certified ScrumMaster Training
          >
          > On 8/1/05, Keith Lancaster
          > <klancaster1957@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > All,
          > > Customer / product owner interaction with
          > developers
          > > is central to most agile methods. When it comes to
          > > user interfaces, however, I have not seen this
          > method
          > > work well...in fact, the instances I can think of
          > have
          > > been a disaster from a usability standpoint. I am
          > > working on a large scale project, using RUP as the
          > > process, but incorporating some agile practices.
          > In
          > > particular, the UI is designed in work sessions
          > with
          > > the (effectively) product owner, the business
          > analyst,
          > > and the a UI developer. After reviewing their
          > work, it
          > > was obvious that they had automated a process that
          > had
          > > steps that were only there because the process had
          > > been paper based. The result was a UI /
          > interaction
          > > model that was non-sensical and needlessly
          > complex. I
          > > have seen blurbs here and there about people
          > > attempting to combine agile techniques with
          > Cooper's
          > > goal driven design principles. Has anyone on this
          > > group attempted this in the context of Scrum? In
          > > particular, it seems that it might be possible to
          > put
          > > Cooper's interaction designer in the role of
          > product
          > > owner, essentially acting as an intermediary.
          > > Thoughts?
          > >
          > > Keith Lancaster
          > >
          > >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.