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"Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

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  • Doug Smith
    I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 26, 2005
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      I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.
       
      In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


      Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
    • Paul Tiseo
      Why do so many people on this list think a great leader gets out of the way ? My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 27, 2005
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        Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

         

        My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

         

        __________________________________
        Paul Tiseo
        ptiseo@...

         


        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
        Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

         

        I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

         

        In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


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      • Rick Cochrane
        Paul, I couldn t agree more! Could it be that the sentiment of leaders should get out of the way is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 27, 2005
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          Paul,
           
          I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)
           
          But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 
           
          You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.
           
          Take care,
          Rick
          -----Original Message-----
          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
          Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

          Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

           

          My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

           

          __________________________________
          Paul Tiseo
          ptiseo@...

           


          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
          Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

           

          I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

           

          In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


          Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

          __________ NOD32 1.1178 (20050726) Information __________

          This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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        • Schiel James - SHS Malvern
          I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they re really referring to servant leadership (see
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 29, 2005
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            I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.
             
            To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").
             
            For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.
             
            Jim Schiel
            Certified Scrum Master Trainer
            Siemens Medical Solutions
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

            Paul,
             
            I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)
             
            But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 
             
            You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.
             
            Take care,
            Rick
            -----Original Message-----
            From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
            Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

            Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

             

            My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

             

            __________________________________
            Paul Tiseo
            ptiseo@...

             


            From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
            Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

             

            I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

             

            In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


            Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

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          • Paul Tiseo
            From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:46 PM ... Is this general fact or personal observation? (Not attempting to be hostile,
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 29, 2005
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              From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:46 PM
              >
              > For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle
              > the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques
              > are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant
              > leadership works best.

              Is this general fact or personal observation? (Not attempting to be hostile,
              BTW. I am genuinely curious.)

              PS: Your link did not work.

              __________________________________
              Paul Tiseo
              ptiseo@...
            • Jørn A Hansen
              ... Seems it should be .org like this: -- Jørn
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 30, 2005
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                On 7/30/05, Paul Tiseo wrote:
                > PS: Your link did not work.

                Seems it should be .org like this:
                <http://www.greenleaf.org/leadership/servant-leadership/What-is-Servant-Leadership.html>

                --
                Jørn
                >
                > __________________________________
                > Paul Tiseo
                > ptiseo@...
                >
              • Tobias Mayer
                I m inclined to agree with James. There are different types of leadership roles, different levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James last
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 30, 2005
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                  I'm inclined to agree with James.  There are different types of leadership roles, different levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James' last paragraph.
                   
                  What I found interesting here is the use of the feminine pronoun in the description.  I had a conversation at Agile2005 with someone who claimed that the "Agile mindset" was ideally suited to female leadership.  She described female leadership as essentially different to male leadership (and a reason that may not be apparent in current corporate culture is that many women are simply emulating men).
                   
                  Perhaps the "lead from the front" pattern is a very masculine, ego-driven approach to leadership.  Lets face it, it is more glamorous, this image of charging at the head of your troops, taking the first bullets, and maybe even dying a bloodied hero for all the world to remember.
                   
                  The servant-leader approach (the "get out of the way" pattern) is a less glamorous one; servant leaders are more likely to be forgotton than remembered.  It is more of a nuturing role, and as such requires great listening skills, great compassion and great humility - all of which are attributes more often found in women than men.
                   
                  The troble with the "lead from the front" approach occurs when the leader departs: there is no one to lead the charge.  A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs.
                   
                  Perhaps this level of leadership is the next stage in our evolution.  So far from being, as Rick suggests, "an outdated view of leaders", this type of feminine-leadership is possibly the future of leadership in the Agile world. 
                   
                  Tobias
                   
                   

                  Schiel James - SHS Malvern <james.schiel@...> wrote:
                  I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.
                   
                  To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").
                   
                  For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.
                   
                  Jim Schiel
                  Certified Scrum Master Trainer
                  Siemens Medical Solutions
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                  Paul,
                   
                  I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)
                   
                  But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 
                   
                  You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.
                   
                  Take care,
                  Rick
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                  Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

                   

                  My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

                   

                  __________________________________
                  Paul Tiseo
                  ptiseo@...

                   


                  From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                   

                  I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

                   

                  In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


                  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                  __________ NOD32 1.1178 (20050726) Information __________

                  This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                  http://www.eset.com

                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  This message and any included attachments are from Siemens Medical Solutions
                  USA, Inc. and are intended only for the addressee(s).
                  The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or
                  otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing,
                  copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
                  be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe
                  you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
                  notify the sender by e-mail with a copy to Central.SecurityOffice@...

                  Thank you
                • Schiel James - SHS Malvern
                  Personal observation (first hand and otherwise)...I ve seen Scrum Masters where the team relies heavily on their direction, even when the team should be
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 30, 2005
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                    Personal observation (first hand and otherwise)...

                    I've seen Scrum Masters where the team relies heavily on their direction,
                    even when the team should be self-organizing. This, I believe, occurs when
                    teams are new (forming) and/or because they are unfamiliar/uncomfortable
                    with the concept of self-organization and self-direction. On the other end
                    of the spectrum, Scrum teams (any teams, for that matter) tend to like to
                    handle things themselves, checking periodically with the leader to
                    align/adjust to the intended direction. Scrum Masters in this scenario, when
                    the team is performing, need to understand that too much "leadership" will
                    be perceived by the team as usurping their intended role. In that case, the
                    team will determine the amount of leadership that they want. The experienced
                    Scrum Master will continue to watch the backlog, mind the process, and
                    protect the team while allowing the team to, for the most part, manage
                    themselves.

                    When the leader leads from the front, the team is probably in the forming,
                    norming, or storming stages of team development. When the leader can step to
                    the side, the team is performing -- this is the desirable state.

                    Jim

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Paul Tiseo [mailto:ptiseo@...]
                    > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:25 PM
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" -
                    > Tobias Mayer
                    >
                    >
                    > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:46 PM
                    > >
                    > > For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle
                    > > the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques
                    > > are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant
                    > > leadership works best.
                    >
                    > Is this general fact or personal observation? (Not attempting
                    > to be hostile,
                    > BTW. I am genuinely curious.)
                    >
                    > PS: Your link did not work.
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Paul Tiseo
                    > ptiseo@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

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                    The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or
                    otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing,
                    copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
                    be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe
                    you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
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                  • Paul Tiseo
                    James: I ve been thinking that, in hindsight, I didn t make my point clear. By in front I meant within or part of the group. Actually absolute coordinate
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 30, 2005
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                      James:

                       

                      I’ve been thinking that, in hindsight, I didn’t make my point clear. By “in front” I meant within or part of the group. Actually absolute coordinate position doesn’t matter. J

                       

                      The use of “in front” implied some sort of “do as I do” approach.

                       

                      Espousing servant-leader just seems like the knee-jerk, pendulum-swing response to the problems of the common autocratic management that many weak managers fall into.

                       

                      As by dad used to say: “Lead by example.” More technical applications are concepts/patterns like “ArchitectAlsoImplements”.

                       

                      __________________________________
                      Paul Tiseo
                      ptiseo@...

                       


                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Schiel James - SHS Malvern
                      Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:46 PM
                      To: ' scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com '
                      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                       

                      I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.

                       

                      To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").

                       

                      For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.

                       

                      Jim Schiel

                      Certified Scrum Master Trainer

                      Siemens Medical Solutions

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                      Paul,

                       

                      I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)

                       

                      But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 

                       

                      You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.

                       

                      Take care,

                      Rick

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                      Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

                       

                      My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

                       

                      __________________________________
                      Paul Tiseo
                      ptiseo@...

                       


                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                       

                      I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

                       

                      In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


                      Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                      __________ NOD32 1.1178 (20050726) Information __________

                      This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                      http://www.eset.com



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                      This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                      http://www.eset.com

                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      This message and any included attachments are from Siemens Medical Solutions
                      USA, Inc. and are intended only for the addressee(s).
                      The information contained herein may include trade secrets or privileged or
                      otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing,
                      copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may
                      be unlawful. If you received this message in error, or have reason to believe
                      you are not authorized to receive it, please promptly delete this message and
                      notify the sender by e-mail with a copy to Central.SecurityOffice@...

                      Thank you
                    • Mike Dwyer
                      People manage to get things done folks. When a group is in disarray, new, or lacking focus, lead from the front. Set the pace, the rhythm, and the standards
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
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                        People manage to get things done folks.  When a group is in disarray, new, or lacking focus, lead from the front.  Set the pace, the rhythm, and the standards for performance.  Some people make this their career.  It is a good place.\

                         

                        Sometime you will be given the task to assist and improve individuals who have had a bad go of it, are new, or want to suck the life blood out of a leader.  This is where you coach.  You show them the moves, grade their progress, and if necessary sit them down on the bench so they can focus on where they should be (here or somewhere else).

                         

                        There are other times when you create, take over or build a smooth running machine.  Here your job is to manage the leadership and the coaching and the role of the team in the organization.

                         

                        It is hard to understand these if you haven’t done them, but once you do, it is impossible to understand why you didn’t understand them earlier.

                         

                        Michael F. Dwyer

                         

                        “No Plan survives contact with the enemy.”  Field Marshall Helmut von Moltke

                        Prussian field marshal who was the architect of the victories of 1866 and 1870. Also the creator of the modern staff system.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Mayer
                        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 AM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision"

                         

                        I'm inclined to agree with James.  There are different types of leadership roles, different levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James' last paragraph.

                         

                        What I found interesting here is the use of the feminine pronoun in the description.  I had a conversation at Agile2005 with someone who claimed that the "Agile mindset" was ideally suited to female leadership.  She described female leadership as essentially different to male leadership (and a reason that may not be apparent in current corporate culture is that many women are simply emulating men).

                         

                        Perhaps the "lead from the front" pattern is a very masculine, ego-driven approach to leadership.  Lets face it, it is more glamorous, this image of charging at the head of your troops, taking the first bullets, and maybe even dying a bloodied hero for all the world to remember.

                         

                        The servant-leader approach (the "get out of the way" pattern) is a less glamorous one; servant leaders are more likely to be forgotton than remembered.  It is more of a nuturing role, and as such requires great listening skills, great compassion and great humility - all of which are attributes more often found in women than men.

                         

                        The troble with the "lead from the front" approach occurs when the leader departs: there is no one to lead the charge.  A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs.

                         

                        Perhaps this level of leadership is the next stage in our evolution.  So far from being, as Rick suggests, "an outdated view of leaders", this type of feminine-leadership is possibly the future of leadership in the Agile world. 

                         

                        Tobias

                         

                         


                        Schiel James - SHS Malvern <james.schiel@...> wrote:

                        I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.

                         

                        To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").

                         

                        For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.

                         

                        Jim Schiel

                        Certified Scrum Master Trainer

                        Siemens Medical Solutions

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                        Paul,

                         

                        I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)

                         

                        But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 

                         

                        You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.

                         

                        Take care,

                        Rick

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                        Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

                         

                        My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

                         

                        __________________________________
                        Paul Tiseo
                        ptiseo@...

                         


                        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                         

                        I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

                         

                        In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


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                      • Charles Prakash Dasari
                        Very well put Mike! Prakash.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Very well put Mike!
                           
                          Prakash.

                           
                          On 8/1/05, Mike Dwyer <mike.dwyer1@...> wrote:

                          People manage to get things done folks.  When a group is in disarray, new, or lacking focus, lead from the front.  Set the pace, the rhythm, and the standards for performance.  Some people make this their career.  It is a good place.\

                           

                          Sometime you will be given the task to assist and improve individuals who have had a bad go of it, are new, or want to suck the life blood out of a leader.  This is where you coach.  You show them the moves, grade their progress, and if necessary sit them down on the bench so they can focus on where they should be (here or somewhere else).

                           

                          There are other times when you create, take over or build a smooth running machine.  Here your job is to manage the leadership and the coaching and the role of the team in the organization.

                           

                          It is hard to understand these if you haven't done them, but once you do, it is impossible to understand why you didn't understand them earlier.

                           

                          Michael F. Dwyer

                           

                          "No Plan survives contact with the enemy."  Field Marshall Helmut von Moltke

                          Prussian field marshal who was the architect of the victories of 1866 and 1870. Also the creator of the modern staff system.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Mayer
                          Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:19 AM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision"

                           

                          I'm inclined to agree with James.  There are different types of leadership roles, different levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James' last paragraph.

                           

                          What I found interesting here is the use of the feminine pronoun in the description.  I had a conversation at Agile2005 with someone who claimed that the "Agile mindset" was ideally suited to female leadership.  She described female leadership as essentially different to male leadership (and a reason that may not be apparent in current corporate culture is that many women are simply emulating men).

                           

                          Perhaps the "lead from the front" pattern is a very masculine, ego-driven approach to leadership.  Lets face it, it is more glamorous, this image of charging at the head of your troops, taking the first bullets, and maybe even dying a bloodied hero for all the world to remember.

                           

                          The servant-leader approach (the "get out of the way" pattern) is a less glamorous one; servant leaders are more likely to be forgotton than remembered.  It is more of a nuturing role, and as such requires great listening skills, great compassion and great humility - all of which are attributes more often found in women than men.

                           

                          The troble with the "lead from the front" approach occurs when the leader departs: there is no one to lead the charge.  A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs.

                           

                          Perhaps this level of leadership is the next stage in our evolution.  So far from being, as Rick suggests, "an outdated view of leaders", this type of feminine-leadership is possibly the future of leadership in the Agile world. 

                           

                          Tobias

                           

                           


                          Schiel James - SHS Malvern < james.schiel@...> wrote:

                          I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html ).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.

                           

                          To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").

                           

                          For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.

                           

                          Jim Schiel

                          Certified Scrum Master Trainer

                          Siemens Medical Solutions

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                          Paul,

                           

                          I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders ( i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)

                           

                          But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 

                           

                          You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.

                           

                          Take care,

                          Rick

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                          Why do so many people on this list think a great leader "gets out of the way"?

                           

                          My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

                           

                          __________________________________
                          Paul Tiseo
                          ptiseo@...

                           


                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                           

                          I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

                           

                          In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


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                        • DianaLarsen
                          Tobias and all, Characterizing the heroic leadership style as opposite of servant leadership and equating servant leadership with a feminine style is not
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Tobias and all,

                            Characterizing the heroic leadership style as opposite of servant leadership and equating
                            servant leadership with a feminine style is not accurate and somewhat misleading. For one
                            thing, servant leadership is not a business leadership model. Experience shows when
                            people try it in a business setting and it doesn't work, they resort back to the heroic. Not
                            helpful.

                            Those on this list who want to learn about Shared Leadership, which is more appropriate
                            for a business setting and certainly more appropriate for self-organizing teams, I'd like to
                            point you to a paper written by Sharon Buckmaster, my business partner. In it she explores
                            the various types of shared leadership being discussed in research circles and points out
                            the benefits and downsides of each.

                            You can find the paper at our website on the publications page:
                            http://www.futureworksconsulting.com/fwcpubs.html
                            Scroll down to the bottom of the list to download a pdf of "Shared Leadership."

                            Diana

                            Diana Larsen
                            www.futureworksconsulting.com 503-288-3550

                            Upcoming Events:
                            - Experiential - SD Best Practices, Boston MA USA, September 2005, http://
                            www.sdexpo.com/2005/uml/conference.htm
                            - "The Secrets of Agile Teamwork: Beyond Technical Skills", with Esther Derby, Diana
                            Larsen and Ken Schwaber, December 6-8, 2005, Portland OR USA - email or call for
                            registration details

                            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Tobias Mayer <tobyanon@y...> wrote:
                            > I'm inclined to agree with James. There are different types of leadership roles, different
                            levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James' last paragraph.
                            >
                            > What I found interesting here is the use of the feminine pronoun in the description. I
                            had a conversation at Agile2005 with someone who claimed that the "Agile mindset" was
                            ideally suited to female leadership. She described female leadership as essentially
                            different to male leadership (and a reason that may not be apparent in current corporate
                            culture is that many women are simply emulating men).
                            >
                            > Perhaps the "lead from the front" pattern is a very masculine, ego-driven approach to
                            leadership. Lets face it, it is more glamorous, this image of charging at the head of your
                            troops, taking the first bullets, and maybe even dying a bloodied hero for all the world to
                            remember.
                            >
                            > The servant-leader approach (the "get out of the way" pattern) is a less glamorous one;
                            servant leaders are more likely to be forgotton than remembered. It is more of a nuturing
                            role, and as such requires great listening skills, great compassion and great humility - all
                            of which are attributes more often found in women than men.
                            >
                            > The troble with the "lead from the front" approach occurs when the leader departs: there
                            is no one to lead the charge. A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full
                            empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs.
                            >
                            > Perhaps this level of leadership is the next stage in our evolution. So far from being, as
                            Rick suggests, "an outdated view of leaders", this type of feminine-leadership is possibly
                            the future of leadership in the Agile world.
                            >
                            > Tobias
                            >
                            > Schiel James - SHS Malvern <james.schiel@s...> wrote:
                            > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:
                            url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}I suspect that when people talk
                            about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see
                            www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).
                            Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction
                            and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the
                            team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving
                            the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve
                            collaboration and trust.
                            >
                            > To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in
                            front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").
                            >
                            > For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This
                            is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong,
                            performing team, servant leadership works best.
                            >
                            > Jim Schiel
                            > Certified Scrum Master Trainer
                            > Siemens Medical Solutions

                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@o...]
                            > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                            > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer
                            >
                            > Paul,
                            >
                            > I couldn't agree more! Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the
                            way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)? I.e., taking that
                            view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too. :)
                            >
                            > But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of
                            projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most
                            effective when remaining connected to the real work... Many clients want to box that role
                            into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake.
                            >
                            > You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely. But it's also
                            invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while
                            simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.
                            >
                            > Take care,
                            > Rick
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                            scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                            > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                            > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer
                            >
                            > Why do so many people on this list think a great leader "gets out of the way"?
                            >
                            > My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then
                            leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Paul Tiseo
                            > ptiseo@m...
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            >
                            > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                            scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                            > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                            > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer
                            >
                            > I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general
                            direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on
                            occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there
                            needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team
                            go....repeating until the goal is achieved.
                            >
                            > In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master.
                            This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in
                            the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive
                            or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change
                            without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.
                            >
                          • Tobias Mayer
                            Thanks, Diana. Good to get your input on this. I enjoyed the Shared Leadership paper and found it a very interesting concept. I also enjoyed reading
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 2, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks, Diana.  Good to get your input on this.
                               
                              I enjoyed the "Shared Leadership" paper and found it a very interesting concept.  I also enjoyed reading "Women's Leadership: A Different Style" at http://www.futureworksconsulting.com/resources/Newsletter_WomnLship_010401.pdf
                               
                              What I draw from this is that a "shared leadership" model is perhaps one stage further on the leadership path than a "servant-leader" model.  Indeed, it would seem that shared leadership, as described in the paper, particularly the "Share All" model, emerges from a situation where a leader recognizes him/herself as a facilitator, rather than a controller (or hero), and makes space for team growth and ownership. 
                               
                              Heifetz's doctor, described on pp12-13, is a good example of this: 'She uses her considerable expertise not to craft a solution but to frame the questions by which the people with the problem achieve the resolution for themselves'. 
                               
                              I'm not sure we are saying such different things, Diana.  In the passage from my earlier email: A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs, 'full-empowerment' can be equated to 'a shared-leadership state' - not identical concepts, but there are many similarities.
                               
                              I take your word that a servant-leader model does not work in business, but would like to consider a slight variation on that: the leader whose intention is not to be a servant, but to "be of service".  There is a subtle difference here, but an important one: the latter is a little more pro-active.  The "being of service" concept was alluded to by at least one women in the "Women's Leadership" paper, and (as I understood it) is the principle practiced by Heifetz's doctor.
                               
                              I don't know if a service model of leadership works in the business world at a high (exec) level.  I have never seen it tried.  I have seen the service model work well lower down in a business organization, and I have also seen it work extraordinarily well in a very large non-business organization.  You are right, in that it should not be directly equated with women, but I do think it requires traits that lean towards the more feminine sides of our natures.
                               
                              I liked Raelin's concept of "leaderful" groups:
                              'He characterizes leaderful behavior as concurrent, collective, collaborative and compassionate in contrast to conventional leadership that he notes as serial, individual, controlling and dispassionate.'  Interestingly, the former set of behaviors require many of the qualities described by the 25 women interviewed in the "Women's Leadership" paper as representative of their style of leadership.  The latter set clearly do not.
                               
                              Tobias


                              DianaLarsen <dlarsen@...> wrote:
                              Tobias and all,

                              Characterizing the heroic leadership style as opposite of servant leadership and equating
                              servant leadership with a feminine style is not accurate and somewhat misleading. For one
                              thing, servant leadership is not a business leadership model. Experience shows when
                              people try it in a business setting and it doesn't work, they resort back to the heroic. Not
                              helpful.

                              Those on this list who want to learn about Shared Leadership, which is more appropriate
                              for a business setting and certainly more appropriate for self-organizing teams,  I'd like to
                              point you to a paper written by Sharon Buckmaster, my business partner. In it she explores
                              the various types of shared leadership being discussed in research circles and points out
                              the benefits and downsides of each.

                              You can find the paper at our website on the publications page:
                              http://www.futureworksconsulting.com/fwcpubs.html
                              Scroll down to the bottom of the list to download a pdf of "Shared Leadership."

                              Diana

                              Diana Larsen
                              www.futureworksconsulting.com   503-288-3550

                              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Tobias Mayer <tobyanon@y...> wrote:
                              > I'm inclined to agree with James.  There are different types of leadership roles, different
                              levels perhaps, which are summarized nicely in James' last paragraph.

                              > What I found interesting here is the use of the feminine pronoun in the description.  I
                              had a conversation at Agile2005 with someone who claimed that the "Agile mindset" was
                              ideally suited to female leadership.  She described female leadership as essentially
                              different to male leadership (and a reason that may not be apparent in current corporate
                              culture is that many women are simply emulating men).

                              > Perhaps the "lead from the front" pattern is a very masculine, ego-driven approach to
                              leadership.  Lets face it, it is more glamorous, this image of charging at the head of your
                              troops, taking the first bullets, and maybe even dying a bloodied hero for all the world to
                              remember.

                              > The servant-leader approach (the "get out of the way" pattern) is a less glamorous one;
                              servant leaders are more likely to be forgotton than remembered.  It is more of a nuturing
                              role, and as such requires great listening skills, great compassion and great humility - all
                              of which are attributes more often found in women than men.

                              > The troble with the "lead from the front" approach occurs when the leader departs: there
                              is no one to lead the charge.  A team with a servant-leader is more likely to reach full
                              empowerment sooner, and thus be sustainable even when the leader departs.

                              > Perhaps this level of leadership is the next stage in our evolution.  So far from being, as
                              Rick suggests, "an outdated view of leaders", this type of feminine-leadership is possibly
                              the future of leadership in the Agile world. 

                              > Tobias
                              >
                              <snip>
                            • Jeff Sutherland
                              There was an excellent interview with 95 year old Peter Drucker on NPR this evening. Drucker invented the discipline of management and is viewed as the wise
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 2, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There was an excellent interview with 95 year old Peter Drucker on NPR this evening. Drucker invented the discipline of management and is viewed as the wise old man of the business community. He has been advisor to senior leaders in the world's largest corporations for decades.

                                His comments on leadership were striking. In terms of charismatic leadership, he stated that the best of the last century were people like Mao Tse Tung and Hitler who destroyed their countries through obtaining absolute power. In the business communities he has seen many similar failures. Leadership in this sense is to be avoided in so far as is possible.

                                Good business leadership is a servant leadership style where the CEO serves the interests of the corporation, the stockholders, the employees, and the community. Particularly in a knowledge society which he thinks we are living in, the knowledge workers are professionals who do not want to be led by a commanding style. Even the military understands this.

                                The problem with knowledge workers is that they tend to be devoted to their profession and building their personal knowledge so they tend to be solitary. The challenge of the servant leader is to form them into a team as almost everything important in business is achieved through teams with a common goal and larger vision that they can commit to. Too much management intervention in the form of directives makes building a high performance team impossible.

                                In 1983, I began training management teams in Drucker's way of thinking. Particularly his book on Innovation and Entrepreneurship was highly relevant to software development leaders. When we formed the first Scrum 10 years later, the servant style of leadership was the norm. So Drucker could be viewed as an early influencer in the formation of Scrum.

                                If you want to get it from the source, check out:
                                http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2005/08/20050802_a_main.asp

                                Jeff Sutherland
                                Certified ScrumMaster Training

                                On 8/2/05, DianaLarsen <dlarsen@...> wrote:
                                Tobias and all,

                                Characterizing the heroic leadership style as opposite of servant leadership and equating
                                servant leadership with a feminine style is not accurate and somewhat misleading. For one
                                thing, servant leadership is not a business leadership model. Experience shows when
                                people try it in a business setting and it doesn't work, they resort back to the heroic. Not
                                helpful.

                                Those on this list who want to learn about Shared Leadership, which is more appropriate
                                for a business setting and certainly more appropriate for self-organizing teams,  I'd like to
                                point you to a paper written by Sharon Buckmaster, my business partner. In it she explores
                                the various types of shared leadership being discussed in research circles and points out
                                the benefits and downsides of each.

                                You can find the paper at our website on the publications page:
                                http://www.futureworksconsulting.com/fwcpubs.html
                                Scroll down to the bottom of the list to download a pdf of "Shared Leadership."

                                Diana

                                Diana Larsen
                                www.futureworksconsulting.com   503-288-3550

                              • Boris Gloger
                                Hi, just my to comments: Before we start discussing different leadership models we definetely should start thinking about what is a leaders, and what are his
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 2, 2005
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                                  Hi,
                                   
                                  just my to comments:

                                  Before we start discussing different leadership models we definetely should start thinking about "what is a leaders, and what are his characteristics."
                                   
                                  Norm told us at the Agile 2005 that a leader has four important characteristics:
                                   
                                  Vision
                                  Persistance
                                  Confidence
                                  Optimism.
                                   
                                   
                                  Tells us that the difference between a manager and a leader is really simple to see:
                                   
                                  They have two different responsibilities:
                                   
                                  Leader
                                  Great leaders rally people to a better future! (The concern about a group!)
                                   
                                  People want from a leader, that he/she shows _clearly_:
                                  whom we seek to serve
                                  where are our core strengths
                                  which score shall we focus
                                  which actions must be taken today
                                  so that our better future comes true.
                                   
                                  Manager:
                                  Discover what is the uniqness of someone and capitalize on it!
                                   
                                  I personally like this clear differentiation because now we can discuss in which way one person is able to work both roles.
                                   
                                  And the most important aspect of this for me: A leader wants to taken uncertainty away from a group.
                                  One of the worst fears of people.
                                   
                                  And if she/he does this -- great: then there is not need to discuss women or man leadership anymore.
                                   
                                  Boris
                                   
                                   
                                • Schiel James - SHS Malvern
                                  No, don t worry, Paul -- you were clear. My point was simply that there are different style of leadership that can be used at different times (thus, the
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 4, 2005
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                                    No, don't worry, Paul -- you were clear.
                                     
                                    My point was simply that there are different style of leadership that can be used at different times (thus, the concept that these styles are situational in nature).  Sometimes leading from the front (or within) is the appropriate move. Sometimes, in the case of a high performing team, there's considerable resentment created when the leader leads from within.
                                     
                                    Espousing servant-leadership as your only way to lead (or worse, doing so because the "big boss" method didn't work) is most certainly a knee-jerk reaction that will lead to trouble. Diagnosing the current condition of your team, however, and modifying your style to one that best fits their current condition, however, is solid leadership.
                                     
                                    Jim
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Paul Tiseo [mailto:ptiseo@...]
                                    Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:40 PM
                                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                                    James:

                                     

                                    I’ve been thinking that, in hindsight, I didn’t make my point clear. By “in front” I meant within or part of the group. Actually absolute coordinate position doesn’t matter. J

                                     

                                    The use of “in front” implied some sort of “do as I do” approach.

                                     

                                    Espousing servant-leader just seems like the knee-jerk, pendulum-swing response to the problems of the common autocratic management that many weak managers fall into.

                                     

                                    As by dad used to say: “Lead by example.” More technical applications are concepts/patterns like “ArchitectAlsoImplements”.

                                     

                                    __________________________________
                                    Paul Tiseo
                                    ptiseo@...

                                     


                                    From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Schiel James - SHS Malvern
                                    Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:46 PM
                                    To: ' scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com '
                                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                                     

                                    I suspect that when people talk about getting out of the way, they're really referring to "servant leadership" (see www.greenleaf.com/leadership/servant-leadership/what-is-servant-leadership.html).  Many leaders see this is getting out of the way -- in other words, having set the direction and vision and motivating the team, it seems like the leader gets out of the way to let the team succeed. When practicing servant leadership, the leader devotes herself to serving the needs of the team. She develops, coaches, and trains her team. She works to improve collaboration and trust.

                                     

                                    To many, this feels like "getting out of the way" because they don't necessarily stand in front (as in, anywhere but the front is "out of the way").

                                     

                                    For a Scrum Master, this may or may not be the best way to handle the Scrum team. This is where situational leadership techniques are important. However, for a strong, performing team, servant leadership works best.

                                     

                                    Jim Schiel

                                    Certified Scrum Master Trainer

                                    Siemens Medical Solutions

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Rick Cochrane [mailto:rick@...]
                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:06 PM
                                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                                    Paul,

                                     

                                    I couldn't agree more!  Could it be that the sentiment of "leaders should get out of the way" is borne of an outdated view of leaders (i.e., high-level managers)?  I.e., taking that view of leadership, sometimes I wish they would get out of the way too.  :)

                                     

                                    But one thing that I've had mixed success with convincing clients at the beginning of projects (but not in the middle or end) is that my role as architect/team lead/etc. is most effective when remaining connected to the real work...  Many clients want to box that role into a "draws fancy pictures but doesn't code" corner, which can be a huge mistake. 

                                     

                                    You need to gather the best, and allow them to be their best - absolutely.  But it's also invigorating for a team to see someone push ahead at the front on some areas, while simultaneously not making it feel like an endless game of chase.

                                     

                                    Take care,

                                    Rick

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Of Paul Tiseo
                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
                                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                                    Why do so many people on this list think a great leader “gets out of the way”?

                                     

                                    My definition of a great leader is one that has a vision, gathers the best troops and then leads by being in the ranks and at the front, not shifting out of the way.

                                     

                                    __________________________________
                                    Paul Tiseo
                                    ptiseo@...

                                     


                                    From:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:02 AM
                                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [scrumdevelopment] "Good leaders have great vision" - Tobias Mayer

                                     

                                    I would add that great leaders use that great vision to point a team in the right general direction....and get out of the way! Allow the team to gel and self-manage. And on occasion gather together to assess where the team is, how they got there, whether there needs to be a mid-course correction, get out of the way again, and let the team go....repeating until the goal is achieved.

                                     

                                    In the world of scrums, this leader is played by the person in the role of scrum master. This person is much like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. Catalysts can affect a change in the rate of the reaction without being consumed in the reaction. Catalysts can be positive or negative with regards to affecting the rate of change. A great leader affects change without being consumed by the change. Suggest, step aside, and follow.


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