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Re: Pigs are offensive? :: absolut not tolerable misbehave

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  • Deb
    ... Brad, I personally disagree. I think there is more going on here than one (or two) individuals attitude problems. I think we have just seen an example of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 29, 2005
      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Grant" <bradg@c...> wrote:
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Paul Carvalho
      > <tester.paul@g...> wrote:
      >
      > > Regretfully, I don't think that I can participate in any future
      > > discussions on this group, so I will gladly leave.
      >
      > Thank you, based on your contributions I think that best serves the
      > group at large.
      >
      > Brad Grant
      > CSM - St. Louis, MO

      Brad, I personally disagree. I think there is more going on here than
      one (or two) individuals' attitude problems.

      I think we have just seen an example of what happens when we develop a
      private language, invite the public in to discuss, and fail to reveal
      the meaning and intention of our language.

      Higher up in this thread, Paul (clearly offended) started out with:
      > WTF is all this Pig and Chicken crap? I don't know enough
      > about Scrum to follow along with this conversation properly.

      I wasn't online and didn't see this thread start. Unfortunately, no
      one posted back with the story of the chicken and the pig, for
      context. (maybe someone did offline?)

      He also asked:
      > Which does Scrum emphasize with these labels?
      > The positive or the negative?

      I didn't see an answer to that one either. So:

      Paul, the illustrative story of the chicken and the pig can be found
      here, along with some past discussion on the topic of these terms:
      http://wiki.scrums.org/index.cgi?PigsAndChickens
      It talks about colleagues, partners in an enterprise, albeit with
      different levels of accountability for the outcome :-)

      I'm not sure what happened with this thread - it seems to have
      escalated rather quickly. Well, it happens. I've been guilty of it
      too. Let's all please check our tempers before hitting Send, ok? And
      readers, feel free to jump in and help out a thread in trouble
      (thanks, Hubert, for doing so). This list is a collaborative effort :-)

      Paul, Henning, thanks for (unwittingly) providing an object lesson in
      the potential problem of "private languages", which we have discussed
      here before, I think. Hope it didn't hurt too much!

      On a somewhat different note: for the record, I met Paul at a weekend
      workshop (run using the LAWST pattern), and was impressed by his
      committment to working in an Agile manner. I invited him to join this
      list, to bring a tester's expertise to our discussions of Scrum, and
      to benefit from our collected experience.

      I think we'll lose the benefit of synergy if we turn this list into an
      "Agile PM" ghetto. We need diversity and discourse. Paul has done some
      interesting agile guerilla work, and has contributions to make here,
      I'm certain.

      Hands up: everyone who's messed up publicly on this list? (I recall
      posting an offlist email to the whole list - doh! and worse...) Paul,
      I'd invite you to lurk or participate or leave, as you wish.

      ciao
      deb

      PS: Paul, I have bad news for you: Ken has a "squirrel burger" story,
      too (I've only heard it 2nd hand). We'll have to get him to write it
      down - it's sure to cause another uproar! :-)
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