Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

FW: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Brand names, XP, Scrum, Crystal, ...

Expand Messages
  • Mike Beedle
    Nancy, Thanks for sharing your experience. I have too experience a similar process since 2000. (In fact, I created something called XBreed that was both a
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 16 8:44 AM
    • 0 Attachment

      Nancy,

       

      Thanks for sharing your experience.  I have too experience a similar process since 2000.

      (In fact, I created something called XBreed that was both a process for concurrent projects,

      that involved migrating Scrum projects to XP practices.  Then I realized it was better to leave

      the end game open ended, and now called this EnterpriseScrum.)

       

      Basically, EnterpriseScrum says: start with inter-related Scrum projects, with Scrum practices

      For the individual projects, and a handful of “enterprise-level practices” and add more

      engineering practices as you need for the project – until you reach a nice predictable place for both

      the business and software development.

       

      However, you should be concerned somewhat about the brands because you can ask:

       

                  Would my teams be able to grow from Scrum to more practices, even XP if

      I did not start with Scrum (with its attitude, philosophy, etc.)?

       

      The fact is – or at least this is what I hear through the grapevine, that XP fails on many first tries because

      *it is too hard* to implement as a starting point.

       

      So here are my conclusions:

       

      • Scrum is a good starting point for *any team*
      • XP is a nice end point for some teams but not all teams
      • There are infinite more end points other than XP that you team may

      feel comfortable with (although XP is certainly a nice one), but

      the right compromise can also be given by other balanced solutions,

       

      - Mike

       


      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nathan McCoy
      Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:18 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Brand names, XP, Scrum, Crystal , ...

       

      [aacockburn wrote]

      >How many groups are shifting from Scrum to XP?

      >How many are not shifting but have been
      behaving the same way for
      >over a year? What does that "end
      state" behavior look like compared
      >to XP or Crystal
      or anything else you can relate it to?

      We’ve been using scrum for well over a year.  At the beginning we typically ran one, rather large waterfall project and one code & fix team.  We now have ~12 scrum teams.  We made serious strides in automated testing and continuous integration in that time frame.  But we have had consistent problems with achieving sashimi / binary-done with each sprint under scrum.  We always had a wave of tasks and QA pushed down streams.  I believe a lot of teams have been successful with scrum, but we have not been successful at being done – for numerous reasons, I’m sure.  As a result somewhere near 1/3rd of our scrum teams have ”shifted” to adopting some or all of the XP practices – beginning about 3 months ago.  Our first “XP” project was a dramatic success in terms of incremental release, being done, releasing with ease, and minimizing bugs. 

       

      The customers are happy.  The business is happy.  We’re rather thrilled. 

       

      The “end state” behavior is, as you say, shifting.  But in our current time-slice, for ~4 of our scrum teams, it looks a lot like XP.

       

      That said, I’m sort of in agreement with Ron.  Or at least I think I am.  That is, to me, it’s the practices that count (TDD, co-location, backlogs, customer prioritization, daily meetings, etc.) rather than the brand names (xp, scrum, crystal). 

       

      No end state – just continuous improvement.

       

       


      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of aacockburn
      Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 7:08 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Brand names, XP, Scrum, Crystal , ...

       

      > Do you find that teams largely end up in the same place eventually
      but that > they start out with Scrum/XP/Crystal? 

      No, because they rarely "end up", they mostly keep shifting. I've
      talked to people who did XP by the book for a year and then felt it
      didn't fit them and softened it so it looked like Crystal during the
      next year.

      The C3 team did XP by the book (haha) until they were disbanded three
      years later (so they both started and "ended up" at XP).

      I haven't yet met a team that started with Crystal and ended up with
      XP. My guess is that Crystal has a lower demand on culture change and
      they never felt like getting the dials up past 8.5

      I haven't met many Scrum groups yet so I can't say what their drift
      looks like --- this would be the place to ask ...
      How many groups are shifting from Scrum to XP?
      How many are not shifting but have been behaving the same way for
      over a year? What does that "end state" behavior look like compared
      to XP or Crystal or anything else you can relate it to?

      I believe the language in each of these groups is different and the
      way they view and make choices is different. What is left in common
      are the notion of "iterations", "team room", "burn
      charts", "backlog", "close communications", "periodic reflection"
      That's a good short list, but leaves a lot of room for variation.



      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com , Mike Cohn <mike@m...> wrote:
      > Interesting, Alistair.
      >
      > Do you find that teams largely end up in the same place eventually
      but that
      > they start out with Scrum/XP/Crystal?  I¹m inclined to believe that
      the
      > starting points are more different than the destinations that
      Scrum, XP and
      > Crystal teams arrive at.
      >
      >
      > Mike Cohn
      > Author of User Stories Applied for Agile Software Development
      > www.mountaingoatsoftware.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 6/15/05 6:53 PM, "acockburn@a..." <acockburn@a...> wrote:
      >
      > > I was nodding my head along with Ron about not fussing with the
      brand name
      > > stuff for a while, but recently had cause to change my mind ...
      > > 
      > > ... Playing XP really does involve putting on the hat&filters to
      ask,
      > > "what is the 'extreme' approach here?",
      > > (as we saw recently in a discussion on the XP mailing list),
      > > where playing Crystal involves putting on the hat&filters to ask,
      > > "what is the culturally gentle approach here?" and I'm guessing
      that
      > > playing Scrum involves putting on the hat&filters to ask,
      > > "what is the self-organizing approach here?"
      > > 
      > > All of these draw from the same bag of techniques, but one comes
      up with
      > > different answers depending on the hat and filters one is wearing
      at the time.
      > > 
      > > As a result I now separate them, and ask as one of the
      questions, "what sort
      > > of result would this group be interested in --- the extreme, the
      culturally
      > > gentle, or the self-organizing?"
      > > I then come up with different answers.
      > > 
      > > ... and that, for me, is the difference between the names, and
      why I think it
      > > is still useful
      > > to use them separately.
      > > (not, e.g., any specific one technique or set of names).
      > > 
      > > Alistair
      > > 
      > > 
      > > ==============================================
      > > Alistair Cockburn
      > > President, Humans and Technology
      > >
      > > 801.582.3162
      > > 1814 Ft Douglas Cir,
      > > Salt Lake City , UT 84103
      > > http://alistair.cockburn.us/
      > > acockburn@a...
      > > ===============================
      > >
      > > "Surviving Object-Oriented Projects" (1998)
      > > "Writing Effective Use Cases" (Jolt Productivity Award 2001)
      > > "Agile Software Development" (Jolt Productivity Award 2002)
      > > "Crystal Clear: A Human-Powered Methodology for Small Teams"
      (Jolt Award
      > > Finalist 2004)
      > >
      > > "La perfection est atteinte non quand il ne reste rien a ajouter,
      > > mais quand il ne reste rien a enlever." (Saint-Exupery)
      > >
      > > "The first thing to build is trust." (Brad Appleton)
      > > ==============================================
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
      > > * 
      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > * scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
      subject=Unsubscribe>
      > > * 
      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service
      > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
      > >




      To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
      To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...



      To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
      To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...


    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.