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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in a fixed-cost environment

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  • Neil Padgen
    Thanks for your replies Hubert and Ken. What tends to happen here is that user requirements and technical requirements documents are written before any project
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 27, 2002
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      Thanks for your replies Hubert and Ken.

      What tends to happen here is that user requirements and technical
      requirements documents are written before any project starts. I'll
      propose that those documents are prioritised so that a meaningful
      Product Backlog can be built, and together with the experience we've
      gained in our three Sprints so far we should be able to give
      reasonable estimates for time and cost.

      With your help here, and with sections 6.3 and 6.9 of the book, I
      should be able to get the project managers to see the light!

      Cheers

      -- Neil

      --



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    • Hubert Smits
      Neil, Why isn t the writing of these specs done in a sprint? That would give the participants in the sprint (specially those who have to estimate the fixed
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 27, 2002
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        Neil,

        Why isn't the writing of these specs done in a sprint? That would give the
        participants in the sprint (specially those who have to estimate the fixed
        price part) a much better steer on the results they require.

        --Hubert

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Neil Padgen
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 27/11/02 11:39
        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in a fixed-cost environment

        Thanks for your replies Hubert and Ken.

        What tends to happen here is that user requirements and technical
        requirements documents are written before any project starts. I'll
        propose that those documents are prioritised so that a meaningful
        Product Backlog can be built, and together with the experience we've
        gained in our three Sprints so far we should be able to give
        reasonable estimates for time and cost.

        With your help here, and with sections 6.3 and 6.9 of the book, I
        should be able to get the project managers to see the light!

        Cheers

        -- Neil

        --



        BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/

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      • Ken Schwaber
        I worked with an organization that just couldn t get the business analysis group into the Scrum thing, even though I pointed out the number of defects,
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 27, 2002
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          I worked with an organization that just couldn't get the "business analysis"
          group into the Scrum thing, even though I pointed out the number of defects,
          limited communication, etc. that was caused by analyzing, writing, reading
          the analysis and trying to figure it out, then designing, coding and
          testing. We used the specs as detailed product backlog, and eventually the
          business analysts joined in, since we needed them to interpret their
          writings anyway.
          Ken

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Hubert Smits [mailto:hsmits@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:50 PM
          To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com '
          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in a fixed-cost environment


          Neil,

          Why isn't the writing of these specs done in a sprint? That would give the
          participants in the sprint (specially those who have to estimate the fixed
          price part) a much better steer on the results they require.

          --Hubert

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Neil Padgen
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 27/11/02 11:39
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum in a fixed-cost environment

          Thanks for your replies Hubert and Ken.

          What tends to happen here is that user requirements and technical
          requirements documents are written before any project starts. I'll
          propose that those documents are prioritised so that a meaningful
          Product Backlog can be built, and together with the experience we've
          gained in our three Sprints so far we should be able to give
          reasonable estimates for time and cost.

          With your help here, and with sections 6.3 and 6.9 of the book, I
          should be able to get the project managers to see the light!

          Cheers

          -- Neil

          --



          BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/

          This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
          personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
          stated.
          If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do
          not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
          reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
          BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will
          signify your consent to this.


          To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



          ****************************************************************************
          *****

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          you are not the recipient
          addressee indicated in this message you may not copy or deliver this message
          to anyone. In such
          case, you should destroy this message and notify us immediately. If you or
          your employer do not
          consent to internet email messages of this kind, please advise us
          immediately.

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        • Neil Padgen
          ... Don t think that will work here. Our setup here is that funding is only granted for a project once the specs have all been written and signed off. As a
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 28, 2002
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            On Wednesday 27 November 2002 7:49 pm, Hubert Smits wrote:
            > Neil,
            >
            > Why isn't the writing of these specs done in a sprint? That would
            > give the participants in the sprint (specially those who have to
            > estimate the fixed price part) a much better steer on the results
            > they require.

            Don't think that will work here. Our setup here is that funding is
            only granted for a project once the specs have all been written and
            signed off. As a team we don't write the specs, but we're trying to
            get more involvement in their preparation than we currently have.

            Ken's suggestion of using the specs as detailed product backlog is the
            most likely to apply here. The project managers raised the point
            that if time or money runs out then something has to give. If we can
            get them to put priorities into the specs, then everyone will be
            aware at the start of the project what will be implemented and what
            might not be. And of course the backlog can be reprioritised at the
            Sprint Review and Sprint Planning meetings.

            -- Neil


            BBCi at http://www.bbc.co.uk/

            This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
            personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
            stated.
            If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do
            not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
            reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
            BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will
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          • David J. Anderson
            I thought this list might be interested in the new community website for Feature Driven Development which Jeff De Luca has recently started.
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 4, 2002
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              I thought this list might be interested in the new
              community website for Feature Driven Development which
              Jeff De Luca has recently started.

              http://www.featuredrivendevelopment.com/

              I'd like to see more written comparing FDD and Scrum -
              there are lots of similarities (and differences too)



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